View Full Version : Is this accurate?
RedSquare
1st February 2011, 19:03
The political theory of socialism, which gave rise to *communism, had been around for hundreds of years by the time a German philosopher named Karl Marx put pen to paper. Marx, also known as the father of communism, spent most of his life in exile in Great Britain and France. He wrote the Communist Manifesto in 1848, which later served as the inspiration for the formation of the Communist Party. Communism is also known as "Marxism."
Marx believed that a truly utopian society must be classless and stateless. (It should be noted that Marx died well before any of his theories were put to the test.) Marx's main idea was simple: Free the lower class from poverty and give the poor a fighting chance. How he believed it should be accomplished, however, was another story. In order to liberate the lower class, Marx believed that the government would have to control all means of production so that no one could outdo anyone else by making more money. Unfortunately, that proves to this day to be more difficult than he might have realized.
Marx described three necessary phases toward achieving his idea of utopia.
Phase 1: A revolution must take place in order to overthrow the existing government. Marx emphasized the nee*d for total destruction of the existing system in order to move on to Phase 2.
Phase 2: A dictator or elite leader (or leaders) must gain absolute control over the proletariat. During this phase, the new government exerts absolute control over the common citizen's personal choices -- including his or her education, religion, employment and even marriage. Collectivization of property and wealth must also take place.
Phase 3: Achievement of utopia. This phase has never been attained because it requires that all non-communists be destroyed in order for the Communist Party to achieve supreme equality. In a Marxist utopia, everyone would happily share property and wealth, free from the restrictions that class-based systems require. The government would control all means of production so that the one-class system would remain constant, with no possibility of any middle class citizens rising back to the top.
Marx also detailed the 10 essential tenets of communism, namely:
Central banking system
Government controlled education
Government controlled labor
Government ownership of transportation and communication vehicles
Government ownership of agricultural means and factories
Total abolition of private property
Property rights confiscation
Heavy income tax on everyone
Elimination of rights of inheritance
Regional planning
In the communist society that Marx described, the government has supreme authority through its total control of land and means of production. Because the government distributes land and property among the people, communism sets a standard of equality -- both economically and socially -- among its followers.
sologdin
1st February 2011, 21:23
i disagree with every proposition. the more serious errors are addressed below.
if the ten-item list is taken from part two of the communist manifesto, then it is both slightly misstated and severely misconceived - such items are not considered the essential tenets of communism therein, but are the result of the following process:
We have seen above, that the first step in the revolution by the working class is to raise the proletariat to the position of ruling class to win the battle of democracy.
The proletariat will use its political supremacy to wrest, by degree, all capital from the bourgeoisie, to centralise all instruments of production in the hands of the State, i.e., of the proletariat organised as the ruling class; and to increase the total productive forces as rapidly as possible.
Of course, in the beginning, this cannot be effected except by means of despotic inroads on the rights of property, and on the conditions of bourgeois production; by means of measures, therefore, which appear economically insufficient and untenable, but which, in the course of the movement, outstrip themselves, necessitate further inroads upon the old social order, and are unavoidable as a means of entirely revolutionising the mode of production.
These measures will, of course, be different in different countries.
Nevertheless, in most advanced countries, the following will be pretty generally applicable.
NB: the first quoted sentence is a refutation of the point about marx believing that a revolution must overthrow the existing government in "phase one."
"phase two" strikes me as a caricature of leninism, which is not essential to marxism, even if correctly described.
"phase three" sounds like red-baiting mccarthyist distortion.
hatzel
1st February 2011, 21:30
Hmm...well, yeah, the political theory of socialism predates Marx by quite a long time, that much is accurate...:rolleyes:
RedSquare
1st February 2011, 21:56
Thanks for your analysis guys. I pulled that extract from "How Communism works" on the HowStuffWorks website (can't post link, but search the phrase and you'll see it).
Can anyone recommend a condensed article or text, available online which explains Marxism in understandable and current terms?
Victus Mortuum
2nd February 2011, 00:30
A good place to start for Marxism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism
A great place to start for Anarchism:
http://www.infoshop.org/page/AnAnarchistFAQ
Kotze
2nd February 2011, 01:09
I like howstuffworks, but the strength of that site is technology.
The start is not too bad (nowadays this means there is no Hitler picture :lol:), but it soon takes a nosedive. I like the colloquial style though, if wish more Marxists wrote like normal people.
In order to liberate the lower class, Marx believed that the government would have to control all means of production so that no one could outdo anyone else by making more money. Unfortunately, that proves to this day to be more difficult than he might have realized.I don't know if he ever said such a thing. I would write this instead: In order to improve the lot of the workers in a way that is sustainable, Marx believed they would need to take over the means of production, so that nobody could live on the workers' backs just by owning these. Unfortunately (or fortunately, if you belong to the happy few who enjoy a nice income from owning assets), capitalism has been more flexible in making some concessions to workers than Marx might have anticipated. Attempts at socialism made so far have been marred by lack of international coordination among the workers, planning problems, and the re-introduction of the old order by those who could expect to become the new capitalists.
Phase 1: A revolution must take place in order to overthrow the existing government. Marx emphasized the need for total destruction of the existing system in order to move on to Phase 2.
Phase 2: A dictator or elite leader (or leaders) must gain absolute control over the proletariat. During this phase, the new government exerts absolute control over the common citizen's personal choices -- including his or her education, religion, employment and even marriage. Collectivization of property and wealth must also take place.
Phase 3: Achievement of utopia. This phase has never been attained because it requires that all non-communists be destroyed in order for the Communist Party to achieve supreme equality. In a Marxist utopia, everyone would happily share property and wealth, free from the restrictions that class-based systems require. The government would control all means of production so that the one-class system would remain constant, with no possibility of any middle class citizens rising back to the top.Phase 1 is tolerably described, even though it doesn't explain how it comes Marxists believe the change has to be more of a rupture than a gradual thing, phase 2 is really weird. The term "dictatorship of the proletariat" refers to the real majority dictating or at least backing what is done. Marx didn't pretend that parliamentary majorities are representative of the majority among the population. Today, we might think about extraordinary campaign budgets skewing chances here, when Marx was alive there were other obvious distortions as well, the equal right to vote among the adult population is a rather recent thing in human history. Marx was very critical of religion and the institution of marriage, you can bet it's a common position among Marxists to be against the state subsidies for religious institutions, but this doesn't mean Marxists want to violently stamp out any private customs people have. As for phase 3, I don't believe one can take Marx literally here.
I would write this instead: Despite the many different strands of Marxism, one can distinguish roughly 3 phases in how they suppose change has to happen:
Phase 1: Overthrow of the capitalist parasites.
Phase 2: The start of the new system, where people are paid based on how hard they work.
Phase 3: The long run, where changes in technology and society have made work so pleasant it has ceased to be work and paying based on performance has become superfluous and the state withers away.
The meaning of the terms socialism and communism has changed over time. Marx and Engels used them interchangeably. With Lenin, it became usual to refer to phase 2 as socialism and phase 3 as communism, still a socialist was a communist and a communist was a socialist. Today, when you hear someone describing himself as not a communist, but a socialist, that person usually means he wishes for a somewhat more comprehensive welfare state under capitalism and stands outside any Marxist tradition. Leninists stress that phase 2 has to last long, left-communists are more optimistic, anarchists want to jump to phase 3 immediately.
Why does phase 1 have to be a revolution and not a gradual change? Marxists think piecemeal changes are unlikely to bring socialism, because why should the capitalists, who stand to lose a lot, idly let these changes happen? The slower the workers act, the more time the capitalists have to counter this development. The change from phase 2 to phase 3 however can be understood as a gradual increase in needs-based services, and it is doubtful whether phase 3 in a pure sense can ever be reached.
Broletariat
2nd February 2011, 03:57
Honestly I don't think there is a simple introduction to Marxism like what you're looking for. Just start reading some Marx, there's your introduction to Marxism. Might I recommend starting with Wage Labour and Capital then move on to Value Price and Profits
smk
2nd February 2011, 05:48
Communism is also known as "Marxism."
(It should be noted that Marx died well before any of his theories were put to the test.)
In the communist society that Marx described, the government has supreme authority through its total control of land and means of production. Because the government distributes land and property among the people, communism sets a standard of equality -- both economically and socially -- among its followers.
No, you dont have to marxist to be communist.
Paris Commune was in 1871
Only in the early stages of communism (as envisioned by Marx, at least) is there a dictatorship of the proletariat. The final goal however, is no government.
Savage
2nd February 2011, 09:01
Marx:Workers Control>Socialism/Communism
Lenin:Workers Control/Socialism>Communism
This is the most basic outline possible but it might help you. In Marx's writing Socialism equated Communism, either of which succeeded the Dictatorship of the Proletariat. For Lenin, Socialism was a stage in which both workers control and the state existed, this transitional stage being distinctly different to (and preceding) Communism.
RedSquare
3rd February 2011, 16:25
Again, thanks for the responses. I had a look a the Simple English version of Wikipedia on Marxism and was wondering if you could post some opinions on it?
wikimedia.org/wikipedia/simple/wiki/Marxism
I have a hard copy of the Communist Manifesto which I'm presently reading, but from the perspective of spreading Marxism, I feel it needs to be explained as simply as possible in colloquial terms.
Victus Mortuum
3rd February 2011, 20:11
In the simplest since, the philosophy of Marxism encompasses:
1) Historical Materialism
2) Anti-Capitalist Economics
3) Proletarian Revolution using Parties to Communism
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