How stable are these revolutions?

[RadioRaheem84]

I know everyone is excited about these turn of events but I have not heard one thing about a viable opposition party. If anything all I keep hearing is idealist rather liberlish slogans about liberty and democracy. Is there any talk at all about the economic situation in Egypt, not just about unemployment but about the maldistribution of wealth?

I hope the Egyptian people achieve their goals but where is this massive protest going to lead? Maybe I've been watching too much mainstream news but I don't see these revolutions as being all that stable or coherent.

[PhoenixAsh]

So far it does have a socialist dimension...but will probably lead to a liberalish, capitalist govenment

[danyboy27]

So far it does have a socialist dimension...but will probably lead to a liberalish, capitalist govenment

a good head start if you ask me.

30 year of emergency measures suck balls

[Rakhmetov]

The people are not fools. They will learn from their experiences and they will come to know their collective strength. As Lenin once said, "Life teaches."

http://www.marxist.com/egypt-moment-of-truth.htm

[The Militant]

I think it is certainly possible for the revolution to turn into a socialist government. Unfortunately what I think will happen is a social-democracy type government will be in place. If their are U.S. supported counter-revolutionaries this could prove to be a big problem for any hope of a socialist government. They will probably put a pro-Israel leader into office.

[RadioRaheem84]

Where is the Egyptian Left? How is it nor obvious to opposition parties that economic change is necessary over these simple idealistic fluff about liberty? I have yet to hear anyone representing the opposition talk about a redistribution of wealth or economic democracy.

I just can't get too excited for fear if this being another solidarity movement or green revolution or orange too.

All this excitement on the news and massive support from people around the world and everyone is cheering for something so incoherent and people may die for something that might not effect a single thing in terms of social relations, the economy, real economic democracy, etc.

What's the real difference between Mubarak and the liberal democracy they're calling for? Egypt is already a Republic, the emergency measures make little difference in determining if it's a viable republic or not. It never was because it was heavily vested in serving the interests if the rich over the poor.

God, I just hate how fucking liberal the world has turned. People are out there risking their lives for ideals that have no coherent message, no real purpose.

[Rusty Shackleford]

these revolutions are not complete, and by nature, revolution is instability.

[Rafiq]

I think this is going to be a nasserist uprising

[RadioRaheem84]

All I keep hearing from independent sources like Democracy Now! is how much this is class collaborationist revolution. Everyone is excited that rich and poor are side by side and they're really emphasizing the rejection of class struggle/class warfare. I also keep hearing about how un-anti-American these protests are, how they're emphasizing how theyre not blaming America for anything.


I mean they're desperately trying to make this out to be a pacifist, non-Marxist/ideological radical social change. Even Democracy now!

[Rusty Shackleford]

what ever they make it out to be really has no effect on the protestors.

they were under an internet blackout remembeR?

they are anti-american

they are not wholly class collaborationist.

they are relatively pacific though.

[Red Commissar]

Where is the Egyptian Left? How is it nor obvious to opposition parties that economic change is necessary over these simple idealistic fluff about liberty? I have yet to hear anyone representing the opposition talk about a redistribution of wealth or economic democracy.

I just can't get too excited for fear if this being another solidarity movement or green revolution or orange too.

All this excitement on the news and massive support from people around the world and everyone is cheering for something so incoherent and people may die for something that might not effect a single thing in terms of social relations, the economy, real economic democracy, etc.

What's the real difference between Mubarak and the liberal democracy they're calling for? Egypt is already a Republic, the emergency measures make little difference in determining if it's a viable republic or not. It never was because it was heavily vested in serving the interests if the rich over the poor.

God, I just hate how fucking liberal the world has turned. People are out there risking their lives for ideals that have no coherent message, no real purpose.

In one of the feeds I saw on CNN momentarily, I saw people coming down an alley, some of whom with red banners and a hammer-and-sickle flag. However they aren't the "driving" force and they've probably tried to form into one big group with the other opposition forces to demand immediate ouster of the current government and Mubarak.

It appears the opposition has settled for lining up behind the west's backup plan, ElBaradei, to be their mouthpiece and possible "leader".

[RadioRaheem84]

I see bits and Pieces of socialist groups now and then but they are definitely in the background of this revolt. So far, I see this as a liberal revolution ala the green revolution with ElBareadi as head of the movement.

[Proukunin]

go read freepalestines post on the new posts.

[Proukunin]

in that post there is also talk of how more rural areas of egypt are experiencing more militant forms of revolt.

[Tommy4ever]

I see bits and Pieces of socialist groups now and then but they are definitely in the background of this revolt. So far, I see this as a liberal revolution ala the green revolution with ElBareadi as head of the movement.


OK, El Bardei is a bit like Kerensky in Russia 1917 ie ''El Bardei is not a revolutionary, just someone who hangs around revolutions''.

He is by no means the leader of the movement, in fact outside forces seem to have tried to thrust him into that position whilst the Egyptians themselves seem apathetic to him. Not only does he lack support he also lacks the ability to properly articulate what the revolutionaries want, to unite all the forces, to organise things and general lead this revolution.

He is in no way the movement's leader. However most seem willing to accept him as a transitional leader until elections due to his neutrality and unoffensiveness - no one's afriad of him.

[RedTrackWorker]

There is definitely a combination of political and economic demands. In contrast to Tunisia though, the political demand (now just: "leave") is much more predominant over the economic demands (such as for a higher minimum raise, which had a movement before this started)...at least in Cairo. The two symbols of the Tunisian revolution were the loaf of bread and the cage with an open door ("bread and freedom, not ben ali"). On Jan. 25 in Mahalla, a textile factory city which had strike waves a couple of years ago, two protesters were photographed holding up a loaf of bread and a sign referring to Tunisia and political freedom (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=103862249690893&set=a.103652329711885.5178.103622369714881). It is quite likely that in cities like Suez and Mahalla, which are more industrial and have had more experience of factory-based struggles, economic demands may be more popular at the moment.
That being said, given Egypt's place in the world-system, its revolution has much less breathing space than the Tunisian: given the Suez canal, its shared border with Israel/Occupied Palestine, it being the center of gravity of the Arab world, etc. The two extremes of revolution and counter-revolution are posed much more sharply: how can there be an open democratic capitalist regime there for an extended period of time? What would it do when Gazans fled across its border, or workers shut down the Suez, or marched into Gaza with aid?
So the revolution in Egypt is not "stable" in the sense it can last indefinitely (no revolutionary situation can). There is no party there capable of leading a socialist, workers' revolution...yet. The most urgent task is to build one and the conditions are ripe for it.
I have seen a lot of talk about the army and the need to split it on revleft and other leftists' statements, but the link in my signature is the only thing I've seen that actually presents a plan for such, rather than just "hope" for such.
Today, with the renewed police violence that--at best--the military did not stop, such tactics as calling for soldiers to elect their officers and to share their arms with the demonstrators have a critical importance. Both in the immediate tactical sense and in the political sense of helping the workers and the poor sort out the various political leaderships available.