Log in

View Full Version : Trotsky's "Permanent Revolution" contempt for the peasantry?



Die Neue Zeit
30th January 2011, 02:43
http://www.cpgb.org.uk/article.php?article_id=1004118


Many on the left see Lenin as undergoing a conversion to Trotskyism in 1917. Lars T Lih takes on this myth and reveals a Lenin, who while converging with Trotsky in certain respects, still has a different strategy. There is also the possible influence Kautsky exerted on Lenin [...]

The part on which Trotsky was by himself - and very often you hear about the Trotsky-Parvus theory, but Parvus denounced this, and Lenin and Parvus were closer on this original question - was his idea that the provisional revolutionary government would be long-lasting, would be a regular government. That is the step he took that the others were unwilling to take. That is why he criticised the Bolsheviks; he considered that they were utopian to think that the provisional revolutionary government would stay provisional.

The question then arises, how did he deal with the ‘axiom of the class ally’, and get around what seemed to everyone else an impassable barrier? He could have done it by saying that the peasants will support socialism, but that is exactly what he didn’t say. The Socialist Revolutionaries (who, by the way, in July 1905 had argued for a “permanent revolution” going into socialism - before Trotsky had ever used the term), coming from the populist tradition, thought that the peasants were ready for socialism’. But Trotsky did not go that route. As a matter of fact, while Trotsky and Lenin may have disagreed about the democratic revolution (and even there I think it was only a matter of emphasis), they certainly did not disagree about whether the peasants were ready for socialism.

My feeling is that Trotsky kept to the letter but violated the spirit of the axiom of the class ally. He thought that in the first part of the democratic revolution the peasants would support you and in the second part, when you go on to socialism, they would not support you. Therefore, unless you have an international revolution, there will be (and this is his own phrase) ‘a civil war with the peasantry’. He agrees that you can’t have socialist government without majority support. But, in a rather peculiar way, he says you can’t have socialism because there will be a civil war with the peasantry. He says we will be discredited if we do not make the provisional government long-lasting.

But to me a civil war with the peasantry seems fairly discrediting, and the idea that a socialist government should end in civil war with the peasantry was blasphemy among Russian social democrats.

Just a confirmation of what Stalin the earlier Russian Social-Democrat and Old Bolshevik (not the revisionist he eventually became) recounted about Trotsky and the peasantry:


Trotskyism is the theory of "permanent" (uninterrupted) revolution. But what is permanent revolution in its Trotskyist interpretation? It is revolution that fails to take the poor peasantry into account as a [politically] revolutionary force. Trotsky's "permanent" revolution is, as Lenin said, "skipping" the peasant movement, "playing at the seizure of power." Why is it dangerous? Because such a revolution, if an attempt had been made to bring it about, would inevitably have ended in failure, for it would have divorced from the Russian proletariat its ally, the poor peasantry. This explains the struggle that Leninism has been waging against Trotskyism ever since 1905.

pranabjyoti
30th January 2011, 04:30
http://www.cpgb.org.uk/article.php?article_id=1004118



Just a confirmation of what Stalin the earlier Russian Social-Democrat and Old Bolshevik (not the revisionist he eventually became) recounted about Trotsky and the peasantry:
A very good example to show that both Stalin and Mao basically have the same "class-collaborationist" tendency:laugh:.

DaringMehring
30th January 2011, 06:10
Isn't it basic Marxism that the working class must lead the socialist revolution?

Wasn't Marx's insight, that, peasants have been around for thousands of years, and despite innumerable egalitarian uprisings, have utterly failed to make socialism?

It's great though that under the influence of Kautsky, Stalin, and Julius Caesar you have discovered a new socialist truth.

Die Neue Zeit
30th January 2011, 06:41
A very good example to show that both Stalin and Mao basically have the same "class-collaborationist" tendency:laugh:.

They did, via the "anti-monopoly ally"/"national bourgeoisie." This thread isn't about that class collaborationism. :glare:


Isn't it basic Marxism that the working class must lead the socialist revolution?

Wasn't Marx's insight, that, peasants have been around for thousands of years, and despite innumerable egalitarian uprisings, have utterly failed to make socialism?

It's great though that under the influence of Kautsky, Stalin, and Julius Caesar you have discovered a new socialist truth.

Correction: The peasantry have failed to transition into communist modes of production, something that practically abolishes even petty commodity production altogether. As Kautsky (1902), Lenin (1917), and Stalin (1952) all agreed on, though, is that "socialism" is NOT any phase of the communist mode of production (any mass economy with a "socialist" base that is nonetheless post-monetary by using anything from labour credits to energy accounting to gift economics).

Interestingly enough, "Late Marx" alone made the wild prediction that the Russian peasantry were capable of leaping all the way to this communist mode of production in alliance with the European proletariat, something well beyond the common monetary limitations imposed by Trotsky, Kautsky, and even early Socialist-Revolutionary theory.

blake 3:17
6th February 2011, 07:19
I tend to think that the leftwing of Social Democracy and the CPs had a overly workerist perspective. The two I'd look to on this and other ways admire most are Trotsky and Luxemburg.

What's your take on Bukharin and the Right Opposition? While he and it obviously had their flaws, I do wonder how the world would have turned out if the Right Bolsheviks had been able to carry on throught the late 20s and early 30s.

Die Neue Zeit
6th February 2011, 07:22
You're supposed to say "DNZ has come out of the closet! He's a Stalinist scumbag! He even quoted Stalin approvingly!" :rolleyes: ;)

I don't like Bukharin. My solution lies primarily in rapid sovkhozization balanced by less painful but nonetheless up-tempo industrialization, which none of the warring factions pursued.

blake 3:17
9th February 2011, 13:00
I don't like Bukharin. Well I won't invite you two to the same party.


My solution lies primarily in rapid sovkhozization balanced by less painful but nonetheless up-tempo industrialization, which none of the warring factions pursued.

There was a good piece in Against The Current years ago from someone in the SP-USA that did a good job on Third Period Stalinism, the Left Opposition and Soviet domestic economic policy. I'll try to find it.

Die Neue Zeit
12th February 2011, 20:38
Since my quote of Stalin was a tad too controversial, let me quote someone with less controversy, Kamenev, on Trotsky's own words "civil war with the peasantry":

http://www.marxists.org/archive/kamenev/1924/11/trotskyism.htm


Trotsky, in his “Lessons of October” actually does make such a confession to the Party. “I have acknowledged my real and great organisatory mistakes,” he writes. But was the fifteen years’ conflict between Lenin and the Bolsheviki on the one side, and Trotskyism on the other, concerned with organisatory questions? This is nonsense, an enaeavour to distract from the point. The conflict was directly concerned with the fundamental questions of the revolution, with the mutual relations of the different classes during the revolution with the question of “permanent revolution” of Comrade Lenin’s theory and this is the question of the role played by the peasantry in the revolution, the question of the paths leading to socialism in an agrarian country, the question of the methods and conditions for the realisation of the proletarian dictatorship in a country in which the peasant population preponderates. This is no contention on abstract formulas. The theory of permanent revolution is based upon a complete underestimation of the role played by the peasantry; it replies to one question only: it tells us how power cannot be seized or maintained under these conditions.