Zeitgeist: Moving Forward (full length)

[The Vegan Marxist]

Reason I'm posting this on the science section is because the entire documentary talks more on scientific development of our social-structure than anything else. It's a great documentary. Best one of all Zeitgeist films, and here's the kicker....no more conspiracy theories! So, enjoy.

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[Dimentio]

Extremely good. Two criticisms against TVP. Firstly, they have no transitionary strategies. Secondly, they are a bit fond of writing the soup recipes of the future.

[pranabjyoti]

What is zeitgeist? Any intro? What is TVP?

[Black Sheep]

TVP = the Venus Project (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Venus_Project)

Zeitgeist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeitgeist:_The_Movie)

[pranabjyoti]

Fresco is 100% right in basic assumptions. I am curious to know whether he is a Marxist or not. If not, then this is a very good example of a Non-Marxist comes to a Marxist conclusion by his own.
I am curious whether the TVP organization is searching for good environment friend product/technology ideas and whether they have the resource to prototype and test the products and technologies. It can be very good for me.

[The Vegan Marxist]

Fresco is 100% right in basic assumptions. I am curious to know whether he is a Marxist or not. If not, then this is a very good example of a Non-Marxist comes to a Marxist conclusion by his own.
I am curious whether the TVP organization is searching for good environment friend product/technology ideas and whether they have the resource to prototype and test the products and technologies. It can be very good for me.

Fresco has a lot of Communist ideals. He's stated his favoring in Marx, on how he's 100% correct how capitalism truly is. Though, in his opinion, Communism doesn't go far enough. That we need something much more.

So what differs Fresco from those of us part of the technocratic movement is that we believe we can mix technocratic concepts, such as that being presented by Fresco, with Socialism/Communism.

[The Vegan Marxist]

Firstly, they have no transitionary strategies.

When I went to see this during its theater showing, Peter Joseph's (director) entire family was there and I got to talk to them for a couple hours after the movie. I started getting into the transitional period, and their overall statement on such was that they didn't really have a transition at all, and rather just hope people will embrace the Venus Project when the economy collapses.

I, of course, didn't like that answer, but I kept that to myself. They did mention that Fresco's looking into making a practice city, where the concepts laid down will be applied. To show the world why his view (our view) is possible and where we should apply our efforts.

In a way, that sounds similar to that of what the EOS is doing. Though, for them, it's more than "practice cities", but rather transitional cities from here to there. So the transitional period for the ZM and TVP is pretty slim, if any at all.

[Dimentio]

For EOS, it's not about cities, but networks. There could be cities or communities which are a part of the network, but not isolated cities.

One example.

Say that you have a bakery and I have a powerplant. You give me the bread I need, I give you the power you need. We both could export to those outside of the network for money, while we internally are utilising a moneyless system.

The only preconditions for joining the structure (technate) is that your network is non-profit, that you are treating your members according to basic human rights and that you share our overall goals.

[ChrisK]

When I went to see this during its theater showing, Peter Joseph's (director) entire family was there and I got to talk to them for a couple hours after the movie. I started getting into the transitional period, and their overall statement on such was that they didn't really have a transition at all, and rather just hope people will embrace the Venus Project when the economy collapses.

I, of course, didn't like that answer, but I kept that to myself. They did mention that Fresco's looking into making a practice city, where the concepts laid down will be applied. To show the world why his view (our view) is possible and where we should apply our efforts.

In a way, that sounds similar to that of what the EOS is doing. Though, for them, it's more than "practice cities", but rather transitional cities from here to there. So the transitional period for the ZM and TVP is pretty slim, if any at all.

Sounds like Robert Owens' city and the Fouierian cities. They all failed and are the source of Marx's switch to scientific socialism.

http://marxists.org/reference/archive/fourier/index.htm

http://marxists.org/reference/subject/economics/owen/index.htm

http://marxists.org/subject/utopian/cabet/index.htm

[pranabjyoti]

Fresco has a lot of Communist ideals. He's stated his favoring in Marx, on how he's 100% correct how capitalism truly is. Though, in his opinion, Communism doesn't go far enough. That we need something much more.

So what differs Fresco from those of us part of the technocratic movement is that we believe we can mix technocratic concepts, such as that being presented by Fresco, with Socialism/Communism.
Actually, what Fresco has described is the basic inability of some so-called "Marxists" who are just unable to understand that without a level of technological progress, SOCIALISM IS JUST IMPOSSIBLE. The basic teachings of Marx is that change in productivity ultimately brings up social change at the end by following the "change in quantity leads to change in quality" rule.
I clearly want to say that without a level of technological development, achieving even socialism is impossible, communism is a far cry. I think what Fresco has thought of is applying communist principles with present level of technological progress. Like many others, he just unable to understand that it's impossible to achieve socialism and communism without a level of further progress.
But, I am curious about from where he and TVP gets the funding for prototyping and testing of new ideas about product/technology i.e. research.