Zeitgeist : moving forward, released on the web

[Black Sheep]

At last.

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Charge up your communist rage by 1,000 gigaMarx, sit back and watch.
Havent seen it yet either.

Prepare yourself for some facepalms, i guess.

[Meridian]

I thought it was okay until the last half/third.

The person/people behind Zeitgeist seems to have matured a little in that he/they recognize now that there's not some 'shadowy cabal' causing the worlds problems but rather, it is the socio-economic system.

[Black Sheep]

Watched the 1st third. It was a brilliant,thorough debunking of the human nature argument against communists.
I miss the narrator though from zeitgeist 1 & 2 :(

[Amphictyonis]

I'd prefer their propaganda to that of free marketers but they're really not saying anything new and could benefit from a better understanding of socialism before they criticize it. I'm at the 2 hour mark now. I'll edit this post with an in depth opinion when I'm done.

I agree capitalism builds products to not last. I agree a society based on competition, greed and exploitation is a sick society. I agree technology should be used to liberate us in lieu of enslave us. I don't agree with the complete lack of Marxist analysis concerning production and distrobution, essentially, who 'manages' workers? Not everything can be automated. They should have critiqued hierarchical forms of human management and the necessary human (political) element of running a society.

There's a lot to point out good and bad but I guess in the end it's better than some right wing bullcrap most Americans are inoculated with so I don't want to criticize it too much. Taking many of Marx's original criticisms of capitalism and renaming them, such as the falling rate of profit, structural and technological unemployment, the base/superstructure and ruling class ideology dominating the psyche of the masses etc and so on bothered me a bit as well.

[Delenda Carthago]

tell me these useless,good for nothing morons dont dare to critise Stalin...:cursing:

[Black Sheep]

tell me these useless,good for nothing morons dont dare to critise Stalin...:cursing:
They did! :crying:
They are provocateurs CIA agents.

[Black Sheep]

The film was awesome btw.
Thorough, extensive debunking to a majority of the arguments against communism.

If it contained class struggle and violent revolution, it would be damn flawless.
What a great improvement from "911 was an inside job" zeitgeist 1 bullshit.

[Amphictyonis]

The film was awesome btw.
Thorough, extensive debunking to a majority of the arguments against communism.

If it contained class struggle and violent revolution, it would be damn flawless.
What a great improvement from "911 was an inside job" zeitgeist 1 bullshit.

They actually criticize socialism in the film and suggest production and distrobution can be managed by computers. A command economy run by engineers is not communism. I'm not sure what it is but...err, at least it's not some Ayn Rand free market bunkum.

It was informative although I already knew everything in there and don't agree with some of it but a good tool to help some people see capitalism for what it is. A shame they couldn't use the term capitalism? A critique of property and the history of economic systems would be a good subject if they make another one. That Peter Joseph guy should also read and understand as much Marx/Engels as he can before he criticizes socialism again but I guess he means well? It was good to see them veer away from that international banking conspiracy and say the market system itself is whats wrong. Maybe the conspiracy theory stuff in the first one helped attract a larger audience seeing so many people are into that shit.

[The Vegan Marxist]

When I went to go see it for the theater showing, Peter Joseph's whole family was there, and I got to talk to them for a couple hours after the documentary. They're really a great bunch of people, and really think ahead. I agree, their concept of socialism and communism is wrong. Though, they don't exactly make socialism or communism look bad, they pretty much just say that they don't go far enough. Hell, I remember reading where Fresco stated how he enjoyed reading the works of Marx, that he was absolutely correct, but that he didn't go far enough.

To me, that at least puts a nice feeling inside to know they're not "anti-socialist", per se. Rather, want something more (despite the fact that they're pretty much advocating it in the first place, with a more up-to-date feel to it).

[Black Sheep]

They actually criticize socialism in the film and suggest production and distrobution can be managed by computers. A command economy run by engineers is not communism. I'm not sure what it is but...err, at least it's not some Ayn Rand free market bunkum.It doesn't explicitly mean that it'll be run by computers / engineers, their point was that most of the work in a resource based economy (communist economy) can be automated to spare us the work.
Decision making was not included at all in the film - though i think it was in ZG addendum.

If you were the workers and managed production,of course you'd decide to implement and organize it electronically.


A shame they couldn't use the term capitalism?They did though.In the "Market" section.By name.


Some of the anti-communism arguments they addressed (and totally destroyed).
-Human nature prevents an egalitarian society (like,humans are inherently greedy, etc)
-What about pathological criminals?
-Stalin killed X million ppl. (portrayed as members of the audience booeing the narrator "You marxist! Stalin killed 800 billion ppl!)
-Capitalism is the reason for great upgrade in standard of living.

Also addressed:
-Prevailing morality and status quo is that of the ruling class
-Oppressed classes become self-appointed guardians if the above.
-How capitalist production disfavors sustainability of goods, quality, satisfaction of needs in a capitalist system ( in a monetary market system, as they call it)


cant think of more, but there have to be.

[Meridian]

Is it just me or does every sub-forum seem to have its own Zeitgeist thread?