Alan Woods: "Uprising in Egypt: the revolution is spreading!"

[Rakhmetov]

Alan Woods, a Troskiite of the IMT comments on the new Egyptian developments.

http://www.marxist.com/uprising-in-egypt-revolution-spreading.htm

[graymouser]

Alan Woods declares everything The Revolution at the drop of a hat. It certainly makes for exciting politics - although not exactly coherent. He will breathlessly write about Egypt for a couple of days and then find something else to write about. That's Alan Woods for you.

[vyborg]

one can accuse Alan to be enthusiastic but not to change argument every other day.
Anyway, leaving this childish cynism to petty people, even bourgeois medias are speaking about a revolution in Tunisia. that's why the old friends of Alan that always joke about his thirst for a revolution must keep in silence.

history is stronger than the most useless cynic.

[graymouser]

one can accuse Alan to be enthusiastic but not to change argument every other day.
Anyway, leaving this childish cynism to petty people, even bourgeois medias are speaking about a revolution in Tunisia. that's why the old friends of Alan that always joke about his thirst for a revolution must keep in silence.

history is stronger than the most useless cynic.
I'm exaggerating for humorous and polemical effect, of course, but seriously, In Defence of Marxism has been really irresponsible with the declaration of "The Revolution" in different countries, and yet it has frequently failed to come up with any kind of public balance sheet of their position. Things come back up when there's a minor resurgence, as in the case of Iran, but in general there is no attempt to put things in perspective and context, it's all just the breathless writing about the Revolution.

I think it mostly has to do with being an old revolutionary, honestly, and wanting to see it in every corner. Here Woods resembles his mentor. In his book on Militant, Peter Taaffe related how Ted Grant saw the 1987 stock market crisis as the beginning of the end of capitalism. Much the same with Alan Woods's constant breathless reports.

[Rakhmetov]

Price of oil will skyrocket if the uprising spreads to Saudi Arabia. I hope to Allah that it does.

[bolchevique]

Only people who haven't lived in a dictatorship,they don't know a thing the enormous difficulties for the masses to mobilize and can say that in Iran there isn't a revolution or Egypt, if you knew the consenquence of taking part in these demos for the people, lyou'd admire thie brave people in Iran or Egypt , they are the real revolutionaries , because it is easy to talk o demonstrate in a Europen countries, but when you can lose your job, your life,i't isn't so easy my friend , and in Irn and Egypg we have seen the beginning of a revolution , I completly agree with Alan Wood

[graymouser]

Only people who haven't lived in a dictatorship,they don't know a thing the enormous difficulties for the masses to mobilize and can say that in Iran there isn't a revolution or Egypt, if you knew the consenquence of taking part in these demos for the people, lyou'd admire thie brave people in Iran or Egypt , they are the real revolutionaries , because it is easy to talk o demonstrate in a Europen countries, but when you can lose your job, your life,i't isn't so easy my friend , and in Irn and Egypg we have seen the beginning of a revolution , I completly agree with Alan Wood
I have not said one word criticizing the people in Iran or Egypt, but I don't think that there is or has been a "revolution" in either country in the last 2 years. A revolution is more than just mass protests, even in a country under the thumb of a dictatorship. What I have criticized here is the irresponsible proclamations of Alan Woods, who has rushed to declare protests as the revolution but then failed to critique his positions when these didn't materialize as he expected. The IMT as a whole has had a perspective on world revolutionary prospects that is disconnected from reality.

This is important for revolutionaries. You need to be able to distinguish between a pre-revolutionary situation and a revolution, because tactics change tremendously between the two. But because he's declared the world to be in a pre-revolutionary situation, Alan Woods has to treat every uprising - which in some of these countries may be a pre-revolutionary situation, and may not - as "the revolution" itself. In Egypt it's certainly much too early to say anything decisive. In Iran, you had a pre-revolutionary situation that failed to develop into a revolution, because of the character of the leadership of the Green movement. But you don't get this from the IMT because they are committed to a wrong world perspective. Instead you get these awful proclamations of the revolution time and again that don't pan out as Woods expects.

[vyborg]

It is sad to see a self proclaimed marxist to be completely unaware of what a revolution is and how it develops. luckily, this is also irrelevant for the people of Iran or Tunisia or Egypt.

[Aurora]

It is sad to see a self proclaimed marxist to be completely unaware of what a revolution is and how it develops. luckily, this is also irrelevant for the people of Iran or Tunisia or Egypt.

You should be more specific you could be refering to graymouser or Alan Woods ;)

[vyborg]

wow, what a sense of humour. I guess David Letterman is going to retire sooner than he thought after it...

anyway, coming back to planet Earth, is anyone that denies in Tunisia a revolution is going on? Please let me know. I understand you really really hate Alan Woods, but it is not his fault if he is right.

[graymouser]

wow, what a sense of humour. I guess David Letterman is going to retire sooner than he thought after it...

anyway, coming back to planet Earth, is anyone that denies in Tunisia a revolution is going on? Please let me know. I understand you really really hate Alan Woods, but it is not his fault if he is right.
Heh, I actually liked the joke - it really could apply to Woods.

Personally I don't "hate" Alan Woods, who I haven't met. I've actually read a lot of his books and think his history of Bolshevism isn't all that bad. I just dislike his politics.

What's going on in Tunisia? Well, the simple fact that Ben Ali had to flee means that the situation could be classified as "revolutionary" - the masses in the street had power. But it subsided relatively quickly, with the government asserting authority. Since then it's been in a situation where the streets have failed to move the balance of power back on their side. The whip of the counter-revolution seems to have the upper hand at this point, and the revolutionary movement could end relatively quickly or escalate again - it's not clear.

But Iran, when Woods declared that the "Iranian revolution has begun," was in the middle of a pre-revolutionary period. And Egypt may not even be there. It is this kind of hyperbole, which results from the view of the IMT that the entire world is in a pre-revolutionary period, that makes Alan Woods's assessment of a revolution so predictable that it's funny.

[Devrim]

Only people who haven't lived in a dictatorship,they don't know a thing the enormous difficulties for the masses to mobilize and can say that in Iran there isn't a revolution or Egypt,

I have lived in a dictatorship, and I think there isn't a 'revolution' in Iran or Egypt.

Of course, it depends how we define revolution, but if we except that it means 'fundamental change', I don't see how you could even suggest that there is.


if you knew the consenquence of taking part in these demos for the people, lyou'd admire thie brave people in Iran or Egypt , they are the real revolutionaries

So what you seem to be suggesting here is that we judge whether a situation is revolutionary or not, not by such things as the level of working class consciousness, and the balance of class forces, but by how dangerous it is.

Of course there are many groups who are constantly proclaiming that the revolution is here, or there. The main function of it seems to be to drag in members, many of whom will invariably leave disillusioned when it becomes clear that it wasn't a revolution after all.


wow, what a sense of humour. I guess David Letterman is going to retire sooner than he thought after it...

Actually, I thought you were referring to Alan Woods. I am not trying to be in anyway funny. That is how it came across to me.

Devrim

[Rakhmetov]

I'm exaggerating for humorous and polemical effect, of course, but seriously, In Defence of Marxism has been really irresponsible with the declaration of "The Revolution" in different countries, and yet it has frequently failed to come up with any kind of public balance sheet of their position. Things come back up when there's a minor resurgence, as in the case of Iran, but in general there is no attempt to put things in perspective and context, it's all just the breathless writing about the Revolution.

I think it mostly has to do with being an old revolutionary, honestly, and wanting to see it in every corner. Here Woods resembles his mentor. In his book on Militant, Peter Taaffe related how Ted Grant saw the 1987 stock market crisis as the beginning of the end of capitalism. Much the same with Alan Woods's constant breathless reports.

When the revolution keeps spreading you will find that you have laid a rotten egg. I'm sure you will be the first person to rejoice in being wrong. ;)

[vyborg]

The Washington Post calls a revolution was happening in Tunisia ("“The secretary's words suggested that the administration remains dangerously behind the pace of events in the Middle East. It failed to anticipate Tunisia's revolution; days before President Zine el-Abidine Ben Ali was driven from the country Ms. Clinton said the United States was ‘not taking sides’ between the dictator and his protesting people. Last week President Obama called Mr. Mubarak but said nothing about the political situation in Egypt - including the regime's plan to hold a one-sided presidential ‘election’ this fall that would extend Mr. Mubarak's mandate for another six years." from http://www.marxist.com/egypt-calm-before-the-storm.htm)

It is frankly comical to see some self-proclaimed marxist to be at the right of the WP....dear comrades, you should come back to our world very rapidly, if you want to be helpful for humankind...stop living on the moon please...

[graymouser]

The Washington Post calls a revolution was happening in Tunisia ("“The secretary's words suggested that the administration remains dangerously behind the pace of events in the Middle East. It failed to anticipate Tunisia's revolution; days before President Zine el-Abidine Ben Ali was driven from the country Ms. Clinton said the United States was ‘not taking sides’ between the dictator and his protesting people. Last week President Obama called Mr. Mubarak but said nothing about the political situation in Egypt - including the regime's plan to hold a one-sided presidential ‘election’ this fall that would extend Mr. Mubarak's mandate for another six years." from http://www.marxist.com/egypt-calm-before-the-storm.htm)

It is frankly comical to see some self-proclaimed marxist to be at the right of the WP....dear comrades, you should come back to our world very rapidly, if you want to be helpful for humankind...stop living on the moon please...
This isn't about Tunisia, though, it's about Egypt, and the fact that Alan Woods has described 11 of the last 2 revolutions in the world as revolutions. Please note the difference, thanks.

[vyborg]

So now u dont deny in Tunisia a revolution is under way. This is a first step back to planet Earth, very good. Keep on coming back.

[Wanted Man]

Why do people entertain a boring IMT troll like vyborg?

[bolchevique]

those comrades who think the ideas of IMT are insignificant must explain how it is possible that internacianal burgoise takes into account our ideas, no of the numerous groups which claim to be marxist, if you dont' know the economist, and the main paper of the establishment in Venezuela think that alan Wood and our tendecy is behing the nationalization, and recently the newpaper Le monde as you know is the main newspaper in France mentioned the influence of our organization in France if you can read French you have here the information http://www.lemonde.fr/politique/article/2011/01/25/les-orthodoxes-du-pcf-ne-veulent-pas-soutenir-une-candidature-melenchon

[vyborg]

Why do people entertain a boring IMT troll like vyborg?

What is boring here is that people who attacks the IMT or Alan Woods are not slightly interested in the position the IMT actually takes. they only have a goal that is to show Alan Wood as a poor loony guy.

Denying that in Tunisia a revolution is under way is only a part of the process. For me, you can go on and on telling jokes about Alan and the fact that he speaks about revolution. This will take you more and more far away from our planet but who cares. Bon voyage

[Kiev Communard]

There is certainly a revolution in the making in Tunisia, and the ruling class there seems to still be at impasse. As for the Egyptian situation, it is too shifting and complicated to say anything definite about its eventual outcome.

[Devrim]

The Washington Post calls a revolution was happening in Tunisia ("“The secretary's words suggested that the administration remains dangerously behind the pace of events in the Middle East. It failed to anticipate Tunisia's revolution; days before President Zine el-Abidine Ben Ali was driven from the country Ms. Clinton said the United States was ‘not taking sides’ between the dictator and his protesting people. Last week President Obama called Mr. Mubarak but said nothing about the political situation in Egypt - including the regime's plan to hold a one-sided presidential ‘election’ this fall that would extend Mr. Mubarak's mandate for another six years." from http://www.marxist.com/egypt-calm-before-the-storm.htm)

It is frankly comical to see some self-proclaimed marxist to be at the right of the WP....dear comrades, you should come back to our world very rapidly, if you want to be helpful for humankind...stop living on the moon please...

Having a different analysis to the Washington Post does not mean that you are too the right of it.

To me the idea that there must be a revolution because the Washington Post says there is is quite frankly more than a little bizarre.

One would presume that the same Washington Post also described the events in Eastern Europe in 1989 as revolutions, such as the Czech 'Velvet Revolution'. Presumably Trotskyists such as the IMT would see these as counter revolutions, and not revolutions at all. Does this put you to the right of the WP? Or is the whole frame of reference of the argument merely something absurd.

What has happened in Egypt is a few days of demonstrations. There is of course a difference between this and a revolution.

Devrim

[vyborg]

Of course you can deny there is a revolution in a country when most bourgeois right wing commentators are admitting it and still pretending to be a communist.

But a very strange kind of communist. let's say one not very useful to the cause of the working class. at this in our planet.

[vyborg]

Please let also note that Heikoo and his gang, the most vicious anti-Woods website on the planet, that only exists to attack the IMT, on Tunisia agree with Alan Woods. This is incredible. They would deny anything to attack the IMT...

Clearly, Alan got a point on Tunisia, i'm afraid for the anti-IMT brigade

[Wanted Man]

What is boring here is that people who attacks the IMT or Alan Woods are not slightly interested in the position the IMT actually takes. they only have a goal that is to show Alan Wood as a poor loony guy.

Denying that in Tunisia a revolution is under way is only a part of the process. For me, you can go on and on telling jokes about Alan and the fact that he speaks about revolution. This will take you more and more far away from our planet but who cares. Bon voyage

The thread is about Egypt. Would you like someone to point out the difference on a map?

[KC]

Woods is a moron. Every time there's demonstrations he's like "ZOMG revolution?!?!?!"

[vyborg]

What a pity...Egypt is coming the Tunisia's way....please comrades, wake up!!

[Rakhmetov]

Woods is a moron. Every time there's demonstrations he's like "ZOMG revolution?!?!?!"

You sound like a silly old maid. Stop fussing and start getting excited for that big revolutionary prick that awaits the reactionaries in Egypt and elsewhere.

[vyborg]

Ops the CWI agree with Alan...what the hell....

[black magick hustla]

ok for all the imt heads and assorted trots am i gonna see socialism in egypt cuz if i am not gonna see socialism in egypt then this is not a revolution

[Tommy4ever]

ok for all the imt heads and assorted trots am i gonna see socialism in egypt cuz if i am not gonna see socialism in egypt then this is not a revolution

No you are not going to see socialism take power in Egypt. But that in no way means that this isn't a revolution. It may not be a socialist revolution but it is a revolution all the same.

[ZeroNowhere]

Why do people entertain a boring IMT troll like vyborg?Because they're on the moon and can't tell that vyborg's a troll from up there, clearly. Come down to Earth, guys.

[vyborg]

I must say this topic is so funny now...

I made a long trip on the net and I cannot find a single website, from the most lunatic trot sect to the most stubborn right wing paper that now denies in Egypt there is a revolution. Maybe it is the first time in history that any trot sects agree on something....

Poor Alan...he only was right from the start....

[Devrim]

I must say this topic is so funny now...

I made a long trip on the net and I cannot find a single website, from the most lunatic trot sect to the most stubborn right wing paper that now denies in Egypt there is a revolution. Maybe it is the first time in history that any trot sects agree on something....

Poor Alan...he only was right from the start....

I can understand why the bourgeoise press is saying that there is a revolution in Egypt, but then they have a very different understanding of what revolution means than communists do.

I completely fail to understand what so-called Marxists are talking about when they refer to a revolution in Egypt. There isn't one. The fact that many of them are now talking about one either shows their complexity lack of political understanding, or more likely their need to overdramitise everything in the quest for new members.

Devrim

[KC]

or more likely their need to overdramitise everything in the quest for new members.

It's kind of funny/pitiful that they use the same tactics as the mainstream media on issues like this. It's come full circle with vyborg here openly quoting WaPo as truth.