Protests in Egypt

[Red Future]

EDIT: This is now the 'official' Egypt thread. Starting of new threads is not by any means forbidden, but preferably post breaking news about the situation in Egypt here. -- Sentinel

http://www.guardian.co.uk/global/blog/2011/jan/25/middleeast-tunisia

Says a poster of the previous party was torn down ...makes a clear point here

[Kiev Communard]

Interesting. I believe it is possible for Mubarak regime to fall - after all, Ben Ali's dictatorship generally looked far more stable and monolithic than the Egyptian one, - but the question is: what kind of political forces may currently replace him? As far as I know, the Egyptian left is rather weak.

[RedStarOverChina]

I have been waiting for this for the longest time. I knew this would happen the moment I found out about Tunisian protests. :)

If the Egyptians could manage to drive out both the old as well as the young Mubarak, the entire balance of power in the region will be redrawn. The world will not be the same.

There are a lot of uncertainties ahead, but also much hope.

[Rakhmetov]

Sodomize them with revolution!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hope to "God" that Saudi Arabia is next. :tt1:

[AnarchoCommunistEyepatch]

Well hopefully a left movement will form out of the struggle.

[RedStarOverChina]

but the question is: what kind of political forces may currently replace him? As far as I know, the Egyptian left is rather weak.
I tend to be conservative in my estimations, that way I don't get disappointed.

So I would say that what comes up next is either prolonged chaos or a situation like Turkey in which moderate Islamicists struggle with pro-Western liberals for power as well as for the direction of the country.

And that would be better than having the corrupt, servile lapdog of the U.S. currently in power. It would offer hope to the Palestinian situation, and who knows, maybe even form an informal alliance with Turkey to become co-leaders of the region.

This maybe the beginning of a multi-polar world in which hegemonic powers will be put in check.

I'm getting ahead of myself, despite trying to be conservative; because I can hardly contain my glee. :D

[Dimentio]

Interesting. I believe it is possible for Mubarak regime to fall - after all, Ben Ali's dictatorship generally looked far more stable and monolithic than the Egyptian one, - but the question is: what kind of political forces may currently replace him? As far as I know, the Egyptian left is rather weak.

In Egypt, it is fairly obvious.

The Muslim Brotherhood.

[RedStarOverChina]

In Egypt, it is fairly obvious.

The Muslim Brotherhood.
True. But we shall see if they will run unopposed.

[Dimentio]

I would guess they won't have majority-support, but that doesn't usually matter for islamists anyway.

[freepalestine]

Egypt protesters clash with police Police fire tear gas at anti-government demonstrators in Cairo as thousands call for ouster of president Hosni Mubarak.

Last Modified: 25 Jan 2011 15:26 GMT

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http://www.revleft.com/mritems/Images/2011/1/25/201112503857338580_20.jpgProtests in Egypt are often quashed swiftly by the police, who prevent marching [EPA]Inspired by Tunisian demonstrators (http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/spotlight/tunisia/2011/01/201114142223827361.html), thousands of Egyptian protesters on Tuesday gathered in Cairo and other major cities, calling for reforms and demanding the ouster of President Hosni Mubarak, Al Jazeera's correspondents have reported.
The anti-government protesters, some hurling rocks and climbing atop an armoured police truck, were chanting slogans against Mubarak, who has ruled the country for three decades.
Downtown Cairo came to a standstill with protesters chanting slogans against the police, the interior minister and the government, in scenes that the capital has not seen since the 1970s.
Demonstrators marched toward what Al Jazeera's Rawya Rageh called the "symbols of their complaints and their agony," the headquarters of the ruling National Democratic Party, the foreign ministry and the state television.
But police responded with blasts from a water cannon and set upon crowds with batons and acrid clouds of tear gas to clear demonstrators crying out "Down with Mubarak'' and demanding an end to the country's grinding poverty.
At least 30 people have reportedly been arrested in Cairo, according to official sources.
Protests also broke out in the Mediterranean city of Alexandria, the Nile Delta cities of Mansura and Tanta and in the southern cities of Aswan and Assiut, witnesses said.
Earlier on Tuesday, Rageh reported from the protests, calling them "unprecedented" in the leniency showed by security forces who allowed demonstrators to march through the capital.
The Egyptian government had earlier warned activists hoping to emulate Tunisian pro-democracy protesters that they faced arrest if they went ahead with Tuesday's mass demonstrations, which some labelled the "Day of wrath".
Promoted Online
The rallies have been promoted online by groups saying they speak for young Egyptians frustrated by the kind of poverty and oppression which triggered the overthrow of Tunisia's president.
Mamdouh Khayrat, 23, travelled from the governorate of Qalubiya to attend protests in Cairo. He spoke to Al Jazeera's Adam Makary. "We want a functioning government, we want Mubarak to step down, we don't want emergency law, we don't want to live under this kind of oppression anymore," he said.
"Enough is enough, things have to change, and if Tunisia can do it, why can't we?" Khayrat added.
Mohamed Ahmed, 36, a demonstrator from Boulaq told Al Jazeera's Makary: "We might be trying to copy what happened in Tunisia. If Egyptians manage to even come close to what they did then I can proudly say today was successful but we still have a long way to do."
"The reaction [to join the protest] has been overwhelming," Rageh said. "The people we have seen taken to the streets today are not the 50 or 60 activists that we have been seeing protesting in Egypt for the past five or six years. These were normal Egyptians, older women, younger men, even children."
A day of revolution
Black-clad riot police, backed by armoured vehicles and fire engines, have been deployed in a massive security operation in Cairo, with the biggest concentrations and likely flashpoints, including: the Cairo University campus, the central Tahrir Square and the courthouse where protesters are said to be gathering.

Coinciding with a national holiday in honour of the police, a key force in keeping president Mubarak in power for 30 years, the outcome in Egypt on Tuesday is seen as a test on whether vibrant Web activism can translate into street action.
Organisers have called for a "day of revolution against torture, poverty, corruption and unemployment".
"Activists said they wanted to use this particular day to highlight the irony of celebrating Egypt's police at a time when police brutality is making headlines," reported Rawya Rageh, Al Jazeera's correspondent in Cairo.
"In fact, the call originated from a Facebook page initially set up to honour a 28-year-old man from Alexandria who activists say was tortured to death by police.
"Witnesses are telling us that there are hundreds on the streets. This is an indication that the protests seem so far to be larger than the usual protests that have taken place here in Egypt over the past few years."
Banned demonstrations

"The security apparatus will deal firmly and decisively with any attempt to break the law," the government's director for security in the capital Cairo said in a statement released ahead of the protests.
Since Egypt bans demonstrations without prior permission, opposition groups say they have been denied such permits, any protesters may be detained.
Habib el-Adli, the interior minister, has issued orders to "arrest any persons expressing their views illegally".
"I tell the public that this Facebook call comes from the youth," Adli said in an interview published by the state-owned newspaper al Ahram.
"Youth street action has no impact and security is capable of deterring any acts outside the law," he said, adding that he welcomed "stationary protests held for limited periods of time" and that police would protect the protesters.
"Beginning of the end"

"Our protest on the 25th is the beginning of the end," wrote organisers of a Facebook group with 87,000 followers.

"It is the end of silence, acquiescence and submission to what is happening in our country. It will be the start of a new page in Egypt's history, one of activism and demanding our rights."
Rights watchdog Amnesty International has urged Egypt's authorities "to allow peaceful protests".
Protests in Egypt, the biggest Arab state and a keystone Western ally in the Middle East, tend to be poorly attended and are often quashed swiftly by the police, who prevent marching.
The banned Muslim Brotherhood, seen as having Egypt's biggest grassroots opposition network, has not called on members to take part but said some would join in a personal capacity.
Organisers have called for protesters to not display political or religious affiliations at demonstrations. The Facebook page says: "Today is for all Egyptians."
Commenting on the wave of public unrest in Tunisia, Adli, the interior minister, said talk that the "Tunisian model" could work in other Arab countries was "propaganda" and had been dismissed by politicians as "intellectual immaturity".
"Young people are very excited, and this time there will be much more than any other time," Ahmed Maher, one of the founders of the opposition youth movement said.
"This is going to be a real test of whether online activism in Egypt can translate into real action," Al Jazeera's Rageh reported.
"Anger has been on the rise in Egypt for the past couple of years, but we have seen similar calls fizzle out. The main difference now is that these calls are coming after what happened in Tunisia, which seems to have not only inspired activists, but actually ordinary Egyptians, a dozen of whom we have seen set themselves on fire in copycat self-immolations similar to the one that had sparked the uprising in Tunisia."
Sympathisers across the world have said they plan to protest in solidarity. In Kuwait, security forces detained three Egyptians on Monday for distributing flyers for the protests, while large demonstrations have also been planned outside the Egyptian embassies in Washington, DC, and London.
Source:
Al Jazeera and Agencies
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/01/201112511362207742.html

[Matty_UK]

In Egypt, it is fairly obvious.

The Muslim Brotherhood.

Maybe not -

"The biggest opposition grouping, the banned Muslim Brotherhood, for so long a useful Islamist idiot manipulated to bolster western support for the secular regime, declined to take part."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jan/25/egypt-protests


Egypt protests are breaking new ground

Egyptians have been here before, but the nature of this protest will unsettle a regime for which complacency is a way of life





Egypt (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/eg.html) is not Tunisia (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/tunisia). It's much bigger. Eighty million people, compared with 10 million. Geographically, politically, strategically, it's in a different league – the Arab world's natural leader and its most populous nation. But many of the grievances on the street are the same. Tunis and Cairo differ only in size. If Egypt explodes, the explosion will be much bigger, too.
Egyptians have been here before. The so-called Cairo spring of 2005 briefly lifted hopes of peaceful reform and open elections. Those hopes died, like autumn leaves, blown away by a withering sirocco of regressive measures and reimposed emergency laws. Food and price riots in Mahalla el Kubra in 2008 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7381766.stm) briefly raised the standard of revolt again. They were quickly suppressed.
But Tuesday's large-scale protests (http://www.guardian.co.uk/global/blog/2011/jan/25/middleeast-tunisia) were different in significant ways, sending unsettling signals to a regime that has made complacency a way of life. "Day of Rage" demonstrators in Cairo did not merely stand and shout in small groups, as is usual. They did not remain in one place. They joined together – and they marched. And in some cases, the police could not, or would not, stop them.
This took President Hosni Mubarak and his ministers way out of their comfort zone. Interior minister Habib al-Adli had said earlier he held no objection to stationary protests by small groups. But marching en masse, uncontrolled and officially undirected, along a central Cairo boulevard, heading for the regime heartland of Tahrir Square – this was something new and dangerous.
The protests' organisation was different, too – recalling Tunisia, and Iran in 2009. The biggest opposition grouping, the banned Muslim Brotherhood, for so long a useful Islamist idiot manipulated to bolster western support for the secular regime, declined to take part. Egypt's establishment rebel, the former UN nuclear watchdog chief, Mohammad ElBaradei (http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/mohamed-elbaradei), also steered clear.
Instead an ad hoc coalition of students, unemployed youths, industrial workers, intellectuals, football fans and women, connected by social media such as Twitter and Facebook, instigated a series of fast-moving, rapidly shifting demos across half a dozen or more Egyptian cities. The police could not keep up – and predictably, resorted to violence. Egypt's protests already have their martyrs, killed by police or burned to death by their own hands. But Egypt does not yet have a Neda Agha-Soltan (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/neda-agha-soltan). Pray it never does.
The language and symbolism were different, too. "Enough, enough (kifaya)!" they shouted in 2005, giving a name to the movement for change. Now the message is: "Too much, too far, for too long!"
"Mubarak, Saudi Arabia awaits you," the demonstrators chanted, referring to the refuge of the Tunisian ex-dictator Zine al-Abidine Ben Ali. "Out! Out! Revolution until victory," shouted a group of mothers, babes in arms. Across Cairo, Alexandria and beyond, the banners of the Tunisian intifada waved liked semaphore flags, wishfully signalling an end to the ancien regime.
But Egypt is not Tunisia. Egypt is a much more efficient police state, a much harder nut to crack. Its leader is as tough and as canny as an old fox. Its military and ruling elite is in hock to the Americans to the tune of $2bn a year – and the American republic, itself born of revolt, has no love of revolutions. Mubarak, 82, has held power for 30 years. He is his own, and Washington's man. According to WikiLeaks cables (http://www.voanews.com/english/news/middle-east/Wikileaks-Egypts-Mubarak-Likely-to-Remain-in-Office-for-Life--111678484.html), he likely plans to die in office – and then hand over to his son.
There is no revolution in Egypt, yet. But, hypothetically, if Mubarak were to fall, the consequences would be incalculable – for Israel and the peace process, for the ascending power of Iran, for US influence across the Middle East, and for the future rise and spread of militant, anti-western Islam. And not least, for 80 million Egyptians.
"Our assessment is that the Egyptian government is stable and is looking for ways to respond to the legitimate needs and interests of the Egyptian people," US secretary of state Hillary Clinton declared (http://www.dawn.com/2011/01/25/us-urges-restraint-in-egypt-says-government-stable.html) on Tuesday night. They thought that about Ben Ali's Tunisia, too. Clinton's hurried words show how worried they are.

[Jimmie Higgins]

In Egypt, it is fairly obvious.

The Muslim Brotherhood.I was reading in the CS Monitor that the Muslim Brotherhood was not organizing or participating in this round of protests. After the crackdown they faced last time, they want to hold onto their electoral gains and sit this out. I think this is an interesting development and if the Brotherhood changed this decision and begins to organize, it would be a good indication that they think this is going to be a lasting protest movement or possibly the end of the regime. It is also an interesting development if they totally sit it out because that would be 100,000 person protests without the support of the major opposition organization, 100,000 people mobilized by the secular pro-democracy forces.

[human strike]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc000YDVY5o

HELL YEAH!

[Rafiq]

Normal Egyptians don't like islamists. Many are in favor of modern culture

[Crux]

These protest are not bolstering the islamists, they are pushing them to the side-lines.

[vyborg]

I agree. In Tunisia islamist are simply irrelevant as the UGTT is the mass traditional workers organization. In Egytpt the situation is different but I guess the tradition of Nasserism will come back very soon.

islamists look at the situation with horror...if the regime cannot stop people, for sure they cannot either...

[Dimentio]

I was reading in the CS Monitor that the Muslim Brotherhood was not organizing or participating in this round of protests. After the crackdown they faced last time, they want to hold onto their electoral gains and sit this out. I think this is an interesting development and if the Brotherhood changed this decision and begins to organize, it would be a good indication that they think this is going to be a lasting protest movement or possibly the end of the regime. It is also an interesting development if they totally sit it out because that would be 100,000 person protests without the support of the major opposition organization, 100,000 people mobilized by the secular pro-democracy forces.

Then the protests will either faltering because of lack of MB support, or they will join the bandwagon if the protesters are winning.

[Dimentio]

Normal Egyptians don't like islamists. Many are in favor of modern culture

It's not about disliking or liking Islamism. The islamists are offering people some social benefits through for example soup kitchens, and they have a mass organisation.

There is a large part of Egypt which is impoverished and that part is more representative than the secular part. It's like Iran.

[Dimentio]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_KqLQBsESjME/TT9AbiE9bAI/AAAAAAAABBo/_rmq3ebRu3c/s1600/Tahrir%2Bsquare.JPG

Woa!

[scarletghoul]

Amazing. :)

Anyone have a list of the major organisations involved in these protests ? Any reds ?

[Dimentio]

The origin seems to have been a Facebook group.

[RedStarOverChina]

Then the protests will either faltering because of lack of MB support, or they will join the bandwagon if the protesters are winning.
The protests will not falter, IMO. Let's not underestimate the hatred Egytians have against Mubarak. They are really PISSED and have been for quite some time. These protests will spread like wildfire, and they probably can't be controlled by this point.

The MB is not Taliban, and Egypt is not Afghanistan. The MB doesn't have the will to impose theocratic rule, nor would the general public tolerate it.

But I do see the MB playing a much bigger role in future Egyptian politics---the moderate wing of MB, that is.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Presidents son and family flee to the UK!

http://www.examiner.com/foreign-policy-in-national/breaking-president-s-son-and-family-have-fled-to-the-uk

i hope the national examiner is credible!


An Italian news publication has just announced that Gamal Mubarak (http://www.adnkronos.com/IGN/Aki/English/Security/Egypt-Presidents-son-and-family-have-fled-to-the-UK_311591050596.html), Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak's son who is widely tipped as his successor, has fled to London with his family, Arabic website Akhbar al-Arab (http://www.akhbaralarab.ae/) said on Tuesday, January 24, 2011.
Gamal Mubarak is seen as Hosni Mubarak's successor. The report is unconfirmed, but goes on to say that the family and 97 pieces of luggage on board left for London on Tuesday from an airport in western Cairo.
The day has seen a revolutionary uprising of Egyptians against the regime of Hosni Mubarak asking for his resignation. Police and protesters clashed, and an anti-riot police officer was killed in Central Cairo.
Taking part in the protest were supporters of former UN nuclear watchdog chief Mohammed El Baradei, the outlawed Muslim Brotherhood, the opposition al-Ghad party, the al-Wafd party and supporters of the '6 April' movement.
Mubarak has shown little tolerance for protests in the past.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Downtown Cairo is a war zone tonight – as reports come in of massive occupations by protesters in towns across Egypt, the centre of the capital is awash with running street battles. Along with hundreds of others I've just been teargassed outside the parliament building, where some youths were smashing up the pavement to obtain rocks to throw at police.

We've withdrawn back to the main square now were thousands more demonstrators are waiting and a huge billboard advertising the ruling NDP party has just been torn down. Security forces are continuing to use sound bombs and teargas to disperse the crowd, but so far to no avail.

http://leninology.blogspot.com/2011/01/egyptian-revolt.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/global/blog/2011/jan/25/middleeast-tunisia

Oops, I have just noticed this link is in the OP.

[RedStarOverChina]

Presidents son and family flee to the UK!

http://www.examiner.com/foreign-policy-in-national/breaking-president-s-son-and-family-have-fled-to-the-uk

i hope the national examiner is credible!
Don't see other news agencies reporting this yet...Lets wait and see

[Pretty Flaco]

Shit reminds me of 1848, spreading from Tunisia to other places in the region and whatnot. Let's hope the outcome isn't similar...

Anyone have anymore info on the current state of Egypt? What parties are at the forefront of this?

[RedStarOverChina]

Shit reminds me of 1848, spreading from Tunisia to other places in the region and whatnot. Let's hope the outcome isn't similar...

Anyone have anymore info on the current state of Egypt? What parties are at the forefront of this?
It looks like an entirely grassroot movement. Well, more of an outburst of long-suppressed anger than a movement.

This is only day 1.

[Pretty Flaco]

It looks like an entirely grassroot movement. Well, more of an outburst of long-suppressed anger than a movement.

This is only day 1.

:blushing: I feel silly now. I misread this as having started a few days ago.

[PhoenixAsh]

amazing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8aXWT3fPyY)

edit: well...aren't I a dolt for not knowing how to embed a video :-S


edit:

from the facebookpage 18 minutes ago from this edit.

Egypt's Protests 25-Jan-2011 (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Egypts-Protests-25-Jan-2011/122198837852240) Last seen protestor: Tahrir square is empty now and some protestors are surrounded by Police on October's brigde and huge numbers are marching from Shubra to help!!

[Pretty Flaco]

amazing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8aXWT3fPyY)

edit: well...aren't I a dolt for not knowing how to embed a video :-S

What were they all shouting together in the beginning of the video?

[PhoenixAsh]

Police emptying the square (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMzhsupI3Fc&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL)

[PhoenixAsh]

What were they all shouting together in the beginning of the video?

I have no idea. what I heard from someone was something like: "free egypt"

[Rusty Shackleford]

QsRdh-G7I34

[Optiow]

I have hope that these protests can topple the government. I hope it won't just fizzle out...

[PhoenixAsh]

another nice video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiL7c9uHc4w&feature=player_embedded)

arrgh for me not getting how to embed youtube

[Rusty Shackleford]

A friend of mine just confirmed, the Dictator's son and his family fled to the UK

[A Revolutionary Tool]

another nice video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiL7c9uHc4w&feature=player_embedded)

arrgh for me not getting how to embed youtube
Holy shit, that's why you don't stand on top of a water cannon truck. That looked like it really freakin' hurt.

[PhoenixAsh]

as far as I now can read the protests have died down...I do hope they flare up again.

edit:

and they do!! :
Protesters are re-taking over Al-Tahrir Square and asking people to leave the houses and join the protests. (R.N.N)

[RedStarOverChina]

:blushing: I feel silly now. I misread this as having started a few days ago.
:lol:I know, I cannot believe it either. So much has happened in only 1 day.

The anger has been built up so dramatically in recent years, I can't think of another country with so much discontent. That's why it bursts into flames with a single spark.

[freepalestine]

Egypt opposition calls for second day of protests
Published today (updated) 26/01/2011 12:32






CAIRO (AFP) -- An Egyptian opposition group has called on Egyptians again to take to the streets Wednesday, a day after unprecedented nationwide rallies against President Hosni Mubarak's 30-year rule.

The pro-democracy youth group April 6 Movement, which launched the call for Tuesday's protests, urged people to head to Cairo's main square, just hours after police fired tear gas on thousands of protesters to disperse them.

"Everyone needs to head down to Tahrir Square to take over the square once again," the group said on its Facebook page -- which along with Twitter had helped to organize the protests.

Tuesday's demonstrations, dubbed "the day of anger" and inspired by the uprising in Tunisia, left two protesters and one policeman dead.

"Mubarak get lost," "Bread, liberty, dignity," and "We will follow Tunisia," the demonstrators chanted.

The protests were considered the largest and most significant since riots over bread subsidies shook the Arab world's most populous nation in 1977.

Despite some 20,000 to 30,000 police being deployed in central Cairo, thousands of demonstrators marched to Tahrir Square on Tuesday, where they chanted in unison: "The people want the ouster of the regime."

They also tore down posters of Mubarak.

The White House said Tuesday that Egypt's government should be "responsive" to its people's aspirations.

"The Egyptian government has an important opportunity to be responsive to the aspirations of the Egyptian people, and pursue political, economic and social reforms that can improve their lives and help Egypt prosper," it said in a statement.


http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=354470

[Bandito]

Tahrir Square, Cairo, 11pm

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs790.ash1/168030_10150395408995437_628360436_16994840_479015 0_n.jpg

[freepalestine]

After Blocking Twitter, Egypt Reportedly Starts Restricting Access To Facebook (http://techcrunch.com/2011/01/26/after-blocking-twitter-egypt-reportedly-starts-restricting-access-to-facebook/)

8diggsdigg
1 (http://www.google.com/buzz/post)
9 Comments (http://techcrunch.com/2011/01/26/after-blocking-twitter-egypt-reportedly-starts-restricting-access-to-facebook/#disqus_thread)
Robin Wauters (http://techcrunch.com/author/tcrobinw/)
1 hour ago

http://www.crunchbase.com/assets/images/resized/0000/4561/4561v1-max-250x250.png
According to a number of tips (http://twitter.com/antikano/status/30248713507045376#) we’ve received in the past few minutes, the chatter on Twitter (http://search.twitter.com/search?q=egypt+blocked+facebook) and several local reports (mostly in Arabic), it appears Egyptian authorities have moved to block Facebook (http://www.crunchbase.com/company/facebook).
Inspired by the recent Tunisian demonstrations against corruption, protesters are filling the streets of Cairo to demonstrate against government corruption (http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/meast/01/25/egypt.protests/) and policies.
Similar to the protests in Tunisia, the Egyptian demonstrations were partly organized on Facebook and Twitter. And yesterday, Twitter was blocked (http://techcrunch.com/2011/01/25/twitter-blocked-egypt/) in Egypt.
If Facebook has in fact been blocked, this isn’t particularly surprising. Facebook itself has also been actively used to organize the demonstrations in Egypt. For instance, one Facebook Group called We Are All Khaled Said (http://www.facebook.com/elshaheeed.co.uk?v=wall), features up-to-the-minute updates on the protests and photos from the scene. Khaled Said was “a young man brutally tortured and killed by police in Alexandria,” explains Blake Hounshell on the Foreign Policy blog (http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/01/25/swarm_tactics_befuddle_police_in_cairo), and his death has become a rallying point for the demonstrations which fall on “Police Day,” a national holiday in Egypt. And many of those who have been blocked on Twitter have now resorted to Facebook for activism.
We’ve contacted Facebook to confirm if the social network has been blocked and will update when we hear back.
http://tctechcrunch.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/fbook.jpg




http://techcrunch.com/2011/01/26/after-blocking-twitter-egypt-reportedly-starts-restricting-access-to-facebook/

[aty]

Big clashes in downtown Cairo right now also as we speak!

[human strike]

Amazing photo:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/231135359.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0ZRYP5X5F6FSMBCCSE82&Expires=1296063069&Signature=qgd1OfgRpXgWyZL4i8nEquHOscM%3D

[freepalestine]

The lion and the lion tamer

http://blogs.independent.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/userphoto/jody-mcintyre.thumbnail.jpg

By Jody McIntyre (http://blogs.independent.co.uk/author/jody-mcintyre/)
Notebook (http://blogs.independent.co.uk/category/notebook/)
Wednesday, 26 January 2011 at 2:29 pm





http://blogs.independent.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/97431060-224x300.jpg (http://blogs.independent.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/97431060.jpg)They say that the relationship between a dictator and the people of his country is like that of a lion tamer and a lion; the lion tamer knows that the lion could eat him at any point. In fact, everyone knows that the lion could eat him at any point, apart from the lion itself. Yesterday, the Egyptian people awoke from a lion’s slumber.
January 25th, officially a public holiday in Egypt to “celebrate” the police, had been named a ‘day of anger’ by Egyptian activists. But no-one could have predicted the day’s events; thousands took to the streets, across the country, and chants of ‘down, down Mubarak!” rang throughout Cairo. Not bad, when you are living in a police state.
I was in Cairo around this time last year, on my way to the Gaza Strip. The friend I was staying with got two house calls from state security forces that week; she didn’t let them in, but was threatened with rape via the intercom nonetheless.
“They have accused me of everything since I travelled to Palestine earlier in the year,” she told me during one conversation, “working for Hamas, then working for Israel, then buying weapons for Hamas…” It is these absurd schools of thought you have to resort to when you consider every one of your citizens to be a potential suspect.
President Hosni Mubarak certainly has reasons to be watching his back; with over $1.5 billion of US aid recieved in 2010, over half the population live in poverty. It doesn’t take a mathematician to work out the facts.
Yesterday, several demonstrations in Cairo converged on the main Tahrir Square. By evening, it had been re-named ‘Liberation Square’ by the thousands of Egyptians who still occupied it. In a country where protests without permission are usually much smaller and quickly crushed by the police, the scenes were truly astounding.
Mubarak and his gang reacted by trying to keep the news suppressed; Twitter was suspended, and several mobile phone networks were reported down. The plan failed, as activists set up proxy servers to keep getting reports out, and protests continued in Alexandria, Mahalia, Port Said and, of course, Cairo.
As the night progressed, the occupation of Tahrir Square continued. At around midnight, reports began to emerge of the police making mass arrests at the Square. In response, demonstrators broke out of the police cordons and began marching around the streets of central Cairo.
Egyptian blogger Wael Abbas, who was present at the protests, claimed during interviews that he had seen police setting fire to cars, perhaps with a view to later blame the damage on demonstrators. It would not be the first time.
Earlier in the day, videos of the police using tear gas and water cannons against protestors were released on the Internet. I hope the videos were posted anonymously; in Alexandria, last June, 28 year-old Khaled Said was beaten to death after posting a video of local police apparently dividing the spoils from a drugs bust. His plight, and the hundreds of activists ‘disappeared’ each year at the hands of Mubarak’s security apparatus, are amongst those the people of Egypt are rising up for.
Two demonstrators were killed in the city of Suez yesterday, and the intermittent reports of mobile phone network and Internet black-outs seems to be an ominous sign of more to come. This year will mark the thirty-first consecutive year since a ‘state of emergency’ was officially declared in Egypt in 1981. Mr. Mubarak, not even that will save you now.
Tagged in: Cairo (http://blogs.independent.co.uk/tag/cairo/), egypt (http://blogs.independent.co.uk/tag/egypt/), gaza (http://blogs.independent.co.uk/tag/gaza/), Hosni Mubarak (http://blogs.independent.co.uk/tag/hosni-mubarak/), Wael Abbas (http://blogs.independent.co.uk/tag/wael-abbas/)

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[PhoenixAsh]

Facebook is not fully blocked. Peole are still updating from inside Egypt.

Received this six minutes ago:

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs790.ash1/168025_10150161483748294_32847763293_8423185_72249 00_n.jpg



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Egypt's Protests 25-Jan-2011 (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Egypts-Protests-25-Jan-2011/122198837852240) http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150161483748294&set=a.379736183293.203343.32847763293
Another Hero from Egypt!!!!


http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs790.ash1/168025_10150161483748294_32847763293_8423185_72249 00_s.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150161483748294&set=a.379736183293.203343.32847763293)

Prikbordfoto's (http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=203343&id=32847763293&ref=mf)
.
share, tag your friends ماينفعش الصور دي ماتتشافش, لازم كله يشوف
وحش مصري يقفز فوق العشرات من جحافل ...الأمن المركزي ويشتبك بشجاعة نادرة
another hero from EGYPT
door:6th of April Youth Movement - حركة شباب 6 إبريل (http://www.facebook.com/shabab6april?ref=mf)

Lees verder

[Dimentio]

Seems quite less widespread today.

[RedStarOverChina]

Seems quite less widespread today.How? Do you have the numbers? There are more arrests today.

[Dimentio]

Yes, but less protests it seems. They are making a post-demonstrations round-up.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

More reports and film here:


About Egypt, you may be interested to know that: officially, 860 protesters have been arrested across the country; Jack Shenker was among them, and can describe the brutality of the Egyptian police up close; the protests have been the largest for a generation, involving tens of thousands in a scale of revolt not seen since the bread riots of the 1970s; finance capital is panicking over the protests, because they may culminate in the overthrow of a pro-US dictator ("Barclays Capital argued in a recent report that the risks of Tunisia’s turmoil spreading to other Arab regimes were “not negligible”..."); and die-hard rumours say Mubarak's son, the dictator-in-waiting, has fled to London.

http://leninology.blogspot.com/2011/01/egypt.html

http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=23721

[aty]

Yes, but less protests it seems. They are making a post-demonstrations round-up.
Much more fierce protests today. Suez is reported overrun by the demonstrators, the police have had to flee and the policehouse burnt out, the army is standing by watching. Tens of thousands are reported right now trying to reach the main square in Cairo and are fighting police. In northern Sinai the policebuilding also burnt out and fierce clashes. In Mahala the same scenario.

[PhoenixAsh]

Egypt's Protests 25-Jan-2011 (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Egypts-Protests-25-Jan-2011/122198837852240) Confirmed : Security forces are using bladed weapons to break-up the protests. (R.N.N)

[PhoenixAsh]

http://plixi.com/p/72614467#

Police use metal pellet guns

[PhoenixAsh]

DPIUoCciUxs

[PhoenixAsh]

Egypt's Protests 25-Jan-2011 (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Egypts-Protests-25-Jan-2011/122198837852240) ‎50 injuries in Suez and the protesters are attacking the NPD and Al-Watany party's office. (R.N.N)

[Lunatic Concept]

You made my day man.

[PhoenixAsh]

Egypt's Protests 25-Jan-2011 (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Egypts-Protests-25-Jan-2011/122198837852240)
Suez is being isolated, reporters and journalists are forbidden from entering the city. (R.N.N)

[PhoenixAsh]

Egypt's Protests 25-Jan-2011 (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Egypts-Protests-25-Jan-2011/122198837852240)
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150133619405429&set=o.104224996294040
Where did you get this?
A copy of a certificate of deposit platinum worth 14.9 billion dollars in Switzerland on behalf of Hosni Mubarak
PS: WE ARE NT SURE OF THE CREDIBILITY OF THIS LINK!

http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs071.snc6/168189_10150133619405429_605650428_8481327_7245723 _s.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150133619405429&set=o.104224996294040&ref=nf)
من أين لك هذا ؟
صورة من شهادة إيداع بلاتين بقيمة ١٤،٩ مليار دولار في سويسرا باسم ...حسني مباركLees verder
door: Ahmed M. Raslan (http://www.facebook.com/ahmedraslan)



Can anybody confirm???

[PhoenixAsh]

ATY3Q81QW6A

burning police HQ in Suez

[PhoenixAsh]

We are all Khaled Said (http://www.facebook.com/elshaheeed.co.uk)
Aljazeera reporter right now saying: Electricity, Mobile phone networks, Landline phone network and Internet is cut off from Suez. Hundreds of youth are in the streets.
Egypt's Protests 25-Jan-2011 (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Egypts-Protests-25-Jan-2011/122198837852240)
URGENT | Egyptian television

President Mubarak makes extensive and intensive contacts with some Arab presidents to discuss
What is happening in the Arabic area in both Lebanon and Palestine!!!!
WHAT ABOUT EGYPT??!!!
Egypt's Protests 25-Jan-2011 (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Egypts-Protests-25-Jan-2011/122198837852240) Detainees | 2 hours After their release say: All detainees are released except those who prove affiliation with the Brotherhood are deported to an unknown location.


EDIT:
are all Khaled Said (http://www.facebook.com/elshaheeed.co.uk) Every protester in Egypt is advised to protest tomorrow one block of 8 hours: Morning, afternoon or evening. This way we don't get tired while police stay up around the clock. Then on Friday: National Protests ALL over Egypt after Friday prayers from every town, city and village. Civil disobedience until the dictatorship falls



[/URL][URL="http://www.facebook.com/pages/Egypts-Protests-25-Jan-2011/122198837852240"]Egypt's Protests 25-Jan-2011 (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Egypts-Protests-25-Jan-2011/122198837852240)
Al-Araby al nassery: - Ministry of Awqaf intend to stop the Friday prayers in down town's mosques in coordination with the Interior.


(http://nl-nl.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=182868725087283&id=122198837852240)

[PhoenixAsh]

We are all Khaled Said (http://www.facebook.com/elshaheeed.co.uk)
Urgent News: Suez is completely cut off. Police has been evacuated. Protesters there are very angry. The army is being brought in according to reports. Some sad speculations say that a massive crackdown will take place in Suez on protesters which could end up with a REAL Massacre. Suez now is Egypt's Sidi Bouzid.




edit -->
note: some sources claim they are armoured police vehicles.

[William Howe]

Police arrested 860 people across the country after bloody confrontations with security forces using rubber bullets, batons, tear gas and water cannon.

A protester and a policeman were killed on Wednesday night when a car ran them over during a protest in a poor, central Cairo neighbourhood. Officials said earlier the two died when they were hit by rocks but later changed the account. Three protesters and a policeman were killed on Tuesday.

Protesters in Suez set a government building on fire and tried to burn down a local office of Egypt's (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/egypt/) ruling party with petrol bombs.

Demonstrators had earlier broken through police cordons despite hundreds being severely beaten and the presence of the feared undercover police on the streets.

White House Spokesman Robert Gibbs would not say whether President Hosni Mubarak, the target of demonstrators' anger, still has the Obama administration's support.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/egypt/8285162/Egypt-launches-crackdown-on-protesters-as-US-urges-reform.html


Looks like militancy is spreading throughout the African-Arab regon. Let's hope this spreads even farther.

[PhoenixAsh]

This sums it up

vo5Fn1-2E8o

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Alternative news report here:

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=6157

[PhoenixAsh]

U.S. shifts tone, bluntly urges Mubarak to reform now (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110126/wl_nm/us_egypt_protest_usa)


By Arshad Mohammed Arshad Mohammed – 2 hrs 55 mins ago
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The United States bluntly urged Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak on Wednesday to make political reforms in the face of protesters demanding his ouster, in a shift in tone toward an important Arab ally.


In issuing a fresh call for reforms after a day of clashes between Egyptian police and protesters, Washington appeared to be juggling several interests: its desire for stability in a regional ally, its support for democratic principles and its fear of the possible rise of an anti-U.S. Islamist government.


U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton delivered the message at a news conference with the foreign minister of Jordan, another Arab country that watched the ouster of Tunisia's president in a popular revolt two weeks ago.


Police in Cairo fought with thousands of Egyptians who defied a government ban on Wednesday to protest Mubarak's 30-year-old rule, firing rubber bullets and tear gas at the crowds and dragging away demonstrators.


The revolt in Tunisia has prompted questions about the stability of other authoritarian Arab governments and has depressed stock, bond and foreign exchange prices in parts of the region, notably in Egypt.


Clinton suggested Egypt's government had to act now if it wanted to avert a similar outcome and urged it not to crack down on peaceful protests or disrupt the social networking sites that help organize and accelerate them.


"We believe strongly that the Egyptian government has an important opportunity at this moment in time to implement political, economic and social reforms to respond to the legitimate needs and interests of the Egyptian people," Clinton said in a statement with Jordan's Nasser Judeh at her side. The Obama administration has urged reforms in Egypt in the past, although seldom with the urgency of Clinton's remarks.


On Tuesday, Clinton had adopted a softer stance, saying the United States supported freedom of assembly and speech, urging all sides to refrain from violence and saying the Egyptian government was "looking for ways" to meet its people's needs.


GENUINE CHANGE


Robert Danin of the Council on Foreign Relations think tank said Clinton's remarks appeared for the first time since the Tunisian unrest to make clear what the United States wants to see in Egypt: genuine change originating from the government rather than a dramatic overthrow as occurred in Tunisia.


As the first Arab state to make peace with Israel, Egypt has much greater strategic importance to the United States than Tunisia. Egypt has long received major U.S. aid and supported Washington's efforts to promote a wider Arab-Israeli peace.


"This is not a walking away from the alliance with Egypt in any way but, at the same time, putting the Egyptian government on notice that changes are going to have to come pretty quickly," Danin said.


"It is trying to lay out a way there can be managed change if the regime is responsive to the people," he said. "It (the Obama administration) doesn't want to see the means adopted in Tunisia -- which would necessitate the leadership to flee."


Tunisian veteran strongman Zine al-Abedine Ben Ali was swept from power on January 14 after weeks of protests.


In an article entitled "After Tunisia: Obama's Impossible Dilemma in Egypt," Shadi Hamid of the Brookings Institution argued that Ben Ali's downfall had "called into question a basic premise of U.S. policy in the Middle East -- that repressive regimes, however distasteful, are at least stable."


Hamid, director of research at the Brookings Doha Center, said Mubarak's government was unlikely to fall quickly.


"The U.S. has a limited amount of time to, first, reassess its Middle East policy and, then, reorient it to ride with, rather than against, the tide of Arab popular rule," he wrote in a piece published on theAtlantic.com.


"It can begin distancing itself from Mubarak by stepping up public criticism of regime repression and deepening contacts with the ... opposition - liberals, leftists, and, yes, Islamists alike," he added. "It is better to have leverage with opposition groups before they come to power than afterward."


The White House made clear it was watching events closely and supported Egyptians' right to protest peacefully.


"This is an important time for the government to demonstrate its responsibilities to the people of Egypt in recognizing those universal rights," White House spokesman Robert Gibbs told reporters aboard Air Force One.



(Additional reporting by Ross Colvin and Andrew Quinn; Editing by Peter Cooney)

[PhoenixAsh]

For those interested:

Some people are organising a solidarity protest in NY. Not much yet...and not politically motivated. But perhaps someone can create some awareness at the protest?

http://www.facebook.com/?sk=lf#!/event.php?eid=187815277910180

[PhoenixAsh]

We are all Khaled Said (http://www.facebook.com/elshaheeed.co.uk) From Twitter @Farrah3m Central forces in Ismaley-ya are currently spraying a yellow chemical spray on protesters which makes them dizzy &lose thier balance #jan25





We are all Khaled Said (http://www.facebook.com/elshaheeed.co.uk)
According to the Guardian, Israeli officials are siding with the dictatorship and are saying its either Mubarak or an islamist takeover (whatever that means)... Just to be clear, these are lies. Many organizers and activsts are secular and are not islamists. We want one free Egypt for All. NO ONE group will takeover Egypt & No one will be excluded.


We are all Khaled Said (http://www.facebook.com/elshaheeed.co.uk)
Protests now in AlMonoufia, AlIsmailia & Suez with very harsh cruelty and attacks from the Police on protesters.

[PhoenixAsh]

We are all Khaled Said (http://www.facebook.com/elshaheeed.co.uk)
Suez is on fire. Live ammunition is being fired at protesters.... Innocent protesters who want their basic rights are being massacred... FREEEDOOOMM...



note: unconfirmed

[Dimentio]

Mohamed ElBaradei has joined the protests. They seem to have got a leader figure.

[PhoenixAsh]

We are all Khaled Said (http://www.facebook.com/elshaheeed.co.uk)
Names of victims of Egyptian police since start of protests in 25 January:

Ghareeb Sayed. (Suez)
Mostafa Ragab AbdelFattah. 20 years old (Suez)
Soliman Saber. (Suez)
...Mostafa Reda Mahmoud. (Suez)
Ayman Ali. (Suez)
Mohammad Farrag. (Suez)
Ahmed Ibrahim AlKilany. (Suez)
Mohammad Atef. 22 years old (Abo Zewid, Sinai)

[PhoenixAsh]

Man shot by riot police...in Egypt protests. Just as a disclaimer: could be shocking.

http://video.ap.org/?f=None&pid=oT7qj_wiVHTbYae3scwok4_irYjJ2R8Z

[Dimentio]

The government seems to have closed the internet, the cell phones and the blackberries.

I doubt they could close the mosques though. Since many Imams probably are supporters of the Muslim Brotherhood, and the Muslim Brotherhood are rooting for Friday protests, Friday could be interesting.

[PhoenixAsh]

It's now 3 am in the morning in Egypt. Hundreds of political activists are being arrested from their homes at this moment in a very large scale operation. Almost all leaders of Muslim brotherhood are confirmed arrested. More reports that Police agents are pouring petrol in the streets of main squares to set them on fire during protest. Please act.

[PhoenixAsh]

Join the cloud. Help egypt.


https://www.accessnow.org/proxy-cloud/page/join-the-cloud

[PhoenixAsh]

NOT confirmed:

hundreds cuting the main roads just outside Tahrir square, Abdel Monem Reyad, infront of Ramses Hilton.
Foreign journalists all over Cairo have been prevented today from getting out of their hotels.

ALL entrances to Tahrir square, Central Cairo are completely closed. Protests in Ismailia started. Large march from Portsaid street in Alexandria marching towards Raml station. Thousands of protesters in AlAzhar area. Water cannons are used extensively.
More than 6000 are said to be marching towards town hall in AlMansoura.

Thousands protesting in AlAreesh now and strong clashes reported.

AlFayoum. Protests just started and clashes with police.

Sharqia:
Thousands protesting and clashing with policeteargas and sound bombs fired on thousands of protesters outside Qa'ed Ibrahim mosque in Central Alexandria

Thousands are protesting now in Menia (South) infront of the central mosque there. Thousands in AlAzhar, Cairo, are marching to downtime.

[PhoenixAsh]

Its on now....

Egypt is mostly closed off from any form of communication. Some reports manage to get through. Massive protests are reported in Cairo and many, many other Egyptian cities. In some places police are reported to join protestors in other places the police are loyal to the goverment.


Scattered reports from Egypt:

WOW - GREAT NEWS: Protesters takeover Tahreer Square completely. Police fled. It's ours. Protesters are so many. Police are trying to get on top of buildings. Reports of death in Tahrir square one of them is an old lady protester. 2 police car are on fire. Horraaayyyyyy


Zaqazeeq: About 70 thousand are estimated to be on the street. FREEDOOOMMM


Beny Sweif: protesters take over the building of the ruling National unDemocratic party. I repeat again. It's confirmed: Whole unit of police in Alexandria refuse commands to attack and fire at protesters.


Mostafa AlFeqy: A leader in Egyptian corrupt government says: I am saddened. Police obviously can NOT end a revolution. There must be acceptance by the president of some of the demands.


Thousands upon thousands in Tahrir, Cairo & more joining from side streets. Thousands of protesters are heading to Kafr AlDawar town hall & police can't stop them.

Aljazeera reporter on Aljazeera now: I saw POLICE with my own eyes police firing on protesters in Cairo. He says if they are firing at an enemy in a war they would not have fired in such way.

[PhoenixAsh]

Baradei was rfeported detained. He is not. He is being prevented to leave the mosque he was in for the friday prayers in Giza.

In Suez the ruling parties HQ have been taken by protesters. As well as many police stations. Prisoners have been released.

Police use agitators in plain clothes to attack the crowds in Cairo.

WikiLeaks has just released 46 diplomatic cables (http://wikileaks.ch/origin/106_0.html) from Embassy Cairo. They range from unclassified to secret and date to 2009 and 2010; the latest from February of last year.

[PhoenixAsh]

Prominent Egyptian opposition politician Ayman Nour struck in the head by a rock, hospitalised, "semi-conscious.

[Sasha]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2011/jan/28/egypt-protests-live-updates

some intresting bits:



http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/1/27/1296130947792/A-riot-policeman-in-a-van-007.jpg
A riot policeman in a van fires rubber bullets as Egyptian riot police clash with anti-government activists in downtown Cairo, Egypt Photograph: Ben Curtis/AP 1.14pm: (http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2011/jan/28/egypt-protests-live-updates#block-46)CloseLink to this update: http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2011/jan/28/egypt-protests-live-updates#block-46 There are reports a woman protester has been killed in Tahrir Square, Cairo's central plaza.1.12pm: (http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2011/jan/28/egypt-protests-live-updates#block-45)CloseLink to this update: http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2011/jan/28/egypt-protests-live-updates#block-45 An eyewitness account from Peter Bouckaert of Human Rights Watch, who says police immediately set upon peaceful protesters.
We are in East Alexandria. Immediately after prayer, the people came out of mosque with banners and started marching, shouting 'we are peaceful, we are peaceful'. Security arrived and immediately began shooting teargas and rubber bullets at peaceful protesters, about 600. Then one-hour rock throwing clash, but police didn't advance more than one block and kept being pushed back. Then a massive column of protesters came from the other direction and blocked in police, holding up their hands and shouting we are peaceful. Right now police is held up in the yard of mosque and protesters all around, police can't move. They repeatedly ran out of teargas and begged protesters to stop, protesters telling them to join them.
1.09pm: (http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2011/jan/28/egypt-protests-live-updates#block-44)CloseLink to this update: http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2011/jan/28/egypt-protests-live-updates#block-44 Al-Jazeera in Suez says the police station in the port city has been taken over by protesters who have freed detainees. They have also set fire to three armoured cars. The reporter said the police were overpowered within minutes.12.59pm: (http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2011/jan/28/egypt-protests-live-updates#block-43)CloseLink to this update: http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2011/jan/28/egypt-protests-live-updates#block-43 In another extraordinary audio report Jack Shenker in Cairo reports on signs that the police are siding with the protesters (http://audioboo.fm/boos/264390-jack-shenker-in-cairo-says-there-are-signs-that-the-police-are-siding-with-protesters-the-regime-is-already-falling-he-was-told). He saw a senior police officer discard a teargas canister to signal to protesters that he was on their side. Will the regime fall he asked a state journalist. "It's already falling, it can't stop," Jack was told. Jack has seen tens of thousands of protesters on the streets, some chanting "we are change".
Listen! (http://audioboo.fm/boos/264390-jack-shenker-in-cairo-says-there-are-signs-that-the-police-are-siding-with-protesters-the-regime-is-already-falling-he-was-told.mp3?source=embed) Turn off auto-refresh to listen to full audio
12.57pm: (http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2011/jan/28/egypt-protests-live-updates#block-42)CloseLink to this update: http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2011/jan/28/egypt-protests-live-updates#block-42 People on Twitter are saying the NDP headquarters in Mansoura, 120 miles north-east of Cairo, is being overrun by 40,000 people. http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2010/04/08/twitter.gif @ShereffAbbas
Mansoura NDP headquarters destroyed by protestors #Jan25 #Egypt




12.47pm: (http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2011/jan/28/egypt-protests-live-updates#block-40)CloseLink to this update: http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2011/jan/28/egypt-protests-live-updates#block-40 BBC Arabic is reporting that protesters in Ismailia have taken over the local headquarters of Mubarak's National Democratic Party.
12.38pm: (http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2011/jan/28/egypt-protests-live-updates#block-37)CloseLink to this update: http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2011/jan/28/egypt-protests-live-updates#block-37 BBC Arabic says approximately 4,000 protesters have surrounded the Suez governate building and are chanting "Free Egypt, Mubarak out."An Al Jazeera reporter in the area said 2 soldiers in Suez had charges issued against them for refusing to fire live ammunition overnight.
12.29pm: (http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2011/jan/28/egypt-protests-live-updates#block-36)CloseLink to this update: http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2011/jan/28/egypt-protests-live-updates#block-36 Before it all kicked off today Jack Shenker wrotea profile of the protesters (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/28/egyptian-protesters-facebook-revolutionaries).Here's how it starts:
Middle-class, urban, web-savvy – the archetypal media image of the young protesters who have shaken Egypt's dictatorship this week captures only part of the reality.
This generation of dissidents, most of whom have lived their entire lives under the three-decade rule of President Hosni Mubarak, have rejected the moribund landscape of formal politics that has ensnared many of their liberal elders since Nasser's 1952 revolution.
Not content to feed on the crumbs of free expression thrown by the Egyptian regime, they have carved out an alternative space in which to develop, swap and spread ideas which challenge the status quo.
Until the government cut off internet access this morning, the forums they organised were online, spread through a vibrant network of blogs and social media sites. Despite Egypt's limited internet penetration, Facebook has been "the main actor", says Khalid al Aman a political analyst at Durham university. "The development of these events has transcended classical movements like the Muslim Brotherhood and other political parties."
We have witnessed this before in Iran but he goes on to say:
But despite the talk of a "Twitter revolution" it is worth remembering that the specific events that helped fuel this uprising happened offline. On top of the long-burning grievances of political oppression and economic hardship, it was a 2008 strike by textile workers in the Nile Delta town of Mahalla al-Kubra that fired the imagination of many of those on the streets today. The three people shot dead by security forces during the Mahalla unrest on 16 April inspired an online movement which took its name from the date.
The traditional working class from all corners of the country has continued to provoke and inspire dissident activity ever since, occupying pavements outside parliament for weeks on end to highlight the devastating impact of the neoliberal reforms pursued by the ruling NDP party. Some trade unions – most notably the real estate tax collectors – have gone on to break free from state control.
Away from the economic concerns, anger at police corruption and brutality has been at the heart of the new wave of protest.

[PhoenixAsh]

In Turkey there are large demonstrations of support. Leftist groups are joining these demonstrations.

[PhoenixAsh]

Al Jazeera has live immages.


http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/

[PhoenixAsh]

Immages from Suez show that the police are unable to do anything. They are surrounded by protestors and stand aside. Protesters do not attack the police but are pushing them back. Parts of suez are burning.

thousands of extra troops have been deployed to Suez.

but security forces say the situation is getting from bad to worse rapidly.

[PhoenixAsh]

In Cairo there are two neighboring bridges. ONe taken by riot police and the other taken by protesters. Police are firing teargas from one bridge to the other...

edit: just happening. Police are storming teh 6th october bridge...protesters are trying to push the police back. They just succeeded!!!!

[Sasha]

did you see the guy running up on the armored riot police van trying to pull the attelierist off? just saw also molotovs trown on the bridge against the cops.
holyfuck, they are really not scared anymore

[PhoenixAsh]

Strong women participation in Suez. Women protesters are trying to take over the city hall.

[Sasha]

reminds me of the quote i saw in the newspaper yesterday "any dictator functions as an lion tamer, he knows, in fact everbody knows, that the lion could kill the liontamer at any moment, all except the lion"

[PhoenixAsh]

did you see the guy running up on the armored riot police van trying to pull the attelierist off? just saw also molotovs trown on the bridge against the cops.
holyfuck, they are really not scared anymore

Indeed...it was intense.

And reports from Alexandria say the protesters and riot police are helping each other.


he police have now given up fighting the protesters. The police and protesters are now talking, with protesters bringing water and vinegar (for teargas) to the police. Afternoon prayer has just been called and hundreds are praying in front of the mosque in east Alexand...ria.

[Sasha]

reports from alexandria that the cops gave up, protesters are bringing water and vineagar for the cops hurt by their own teargass, cops are negotiating, afternoon prayer has started

[Sasha]

4XnhHzs91MY

protester getting shot

[PhoenixAsh]

3:50 pm - Our sister station Al Jazeera Arabic has been reporting from throughout Egypt today, they're currently telling us of other large protests in Port Said, which lies at the mouth of the Suez Canal on the Mediterranean Sea, and in Damietta, a town in the Nile Delta. They report tens of thousands of protesters in Port Said and thousands in Damietta, where crowds set fire to the office of the ruling National Democratic Party.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Great footage on BBC News 24. The cops are getting a hammering.

[PhoenixAsh]

‎50 thousand protesters in Mahalla. Thousands in Alharam (Pyramids area) in Cairo.
AlMonoufia, the president's home city, protesters now have full control on the city centre. No police presence.

[Das war einmal]

Well hopefully a left movement will form out of the struggle.


I hope so too but I'm a bit sceptical. Nevertheless the people of Egypt are the ones who are deciding whats next now.

[Das war einmal]

@ Al-jazeera: Suez has been taken over by the people, the police seem to have left.

[PhoenixAsh]

ander police station in Mahalla is totally burnt down. For years people were tortured and killed in Egyptian police station. Millions of people have suffered abuse at the hands of the police.
Kafr El Sheikh: 15 thousand protesters in the streets promising not to go home.
Dessouk: 12 thousand in the streets.
from Aljazeera.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

The BBC has just reported that religion hasn't entered into this revolt yet at all. The Coptic Christians (who make up 10% of the population) have issued a statement saying they stand with their muslim brothers and sisters, and will guard their mosques while they prey.

[TheGeekySocialist]

been following it online just now, power to the people of Egypt

[Sasha]

The BBC has just reported that religion hasn't entered into this revolt yet at all. The Coptic Christians (who make up 10% of the population) have issued a statement saying they stand with their muslim brothers and sisters, and will guard their mosques while they prey.

intresting, earlier reports said that the copt leadership quoting scripture saying they need to "respect the goverment" and "not rebel"

[Leo]

In Turkey there are large demonstrations of support. Leftist groups are joining these demonstrations. Unfortunately, nothing of comparable significance to the North African events have taken place here so far. A few leftist groups ended up having a small skirmish with the police, which were completely unrelated to the events in Egypt or Tunisia.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Psycho:


intresting, earlier reports said that the copt leadership quoting scripture saying they need to "respect the goverment" and "not rebel"

It looks like they have changed their minds. But we will have to see.

[Tommy4ever]

Today is the most cruicial in the entire movement. The people really do seem to have the government on the backfoot. However I fear that they may be unable to mobilise such numbers over the course of the next few days. If they can then the government may well fall, if they cannot then Mubarak may be able to weather the storm and survive.

However the claims in this thread that some police elements have joined the people are hugely significant. If the police break then Mubarak will fall.

[PhoenixAsh]

Alexandria, Suez, Damanhour, Monoufeya centers are under protesters control.

Protests start in the tourist resourt Hurghada and the nice bit: Foreigners and tourists are joining protesters in the streets calling on Mubarak to go... :-) ...

That's a physical international support.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Human Rights Watch eye-witness report from Alexandria:


After prayers, the protesters came out of a mosque and started shouting slogans. They were saying "peaceful, peaceful" and raising their hands. They were immediately attacked by police in an armoured car firing teargas. Fierce clashes started then, with exchanges of rock throwing. About 200 police faced about 1,000 protesters. The clashes lasted for nearly two hours. Then a much larger crowd of protesters came from another direction. They were packed in four blocks deep. Police tried to hold them back with teargas and rubber bullets, but they were finally overwhelmed.

Then the police just gave up, at about the time of afternoon prayers. Protesters gave water to police and talked to them. It was was all peaceful. Hundreds of protesters were praying in the street.

Now walking down to downtown Alexandria, the whole road is packed as far as we can see, people shouting slogans against [Hosni] Mubarak and his son Gamal. Asking others to join them. It is a very festive atmosphere. Women in veils, old men, children, I even saw a blind man being led. And there are no police anywhere.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2011/jan/28/egypt-protests-live-updates

[RED DAVE]

The crucial question for Marxists in this uprising is: which classes are in motion and what is their leadership?

Egypt has a huge working class, unions, left parties (above and below ground), etc. To refer to a rising of "the Egyptian people" and not analyze the class forces involved is to become a cheerleader, passively following the events.

In the absence of conscious, revolutionary leadership, all these wonderful events will be lost. Bourgeois forces will want to government off the back of industry, etc.; petit-bourgeois forces will want more honest government, reforms, etc. Students, basically petit-bourgeois and bourgeois, will fight the police, but in the absence of a program, in the absence of leadership calling on the workers to form revolutionary organizations, this moment will be lost.

RED DAVE

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

BBC News 24 has just carried a report from a woman involved in the protests. She says thousands are resisting the cops, using home-spun ideas to counter the tear gas. She underlined it's not a religious revolt, but one involving the whole population.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

The Guardian has just carried this report about the situation in Cairo:


Egyptian police abandoned central areas of the industrial port city after demonstrations in which thousands of protesters overwhelmed security lines and torched a police station, a Reuters witness said. Police had tried to disperse the protesters, who hurled stones and chanted for the end to President Hosni Mubarak's rule. But they were unable to contain them and moved back, abandoning at least eight big police trucks. Protesters smashed the windows and tried to flip one of the trucks over. Hundreds of members of security forces had gathered in a large group around the governors offence, where there was no sign of protesters.

Link above.

[PhoenixAsh]

Kafr AlDawar: Police station is burnt down. Protesters are now heading to town hall.
Tahrir is on fire: Police there is very very brutal. hundreds of teargas canisters fired. protesters disperse and then gather again in different streets protesters split into 3 different areas.

[Chicano Shamrock]

I assume that guns are illegal in Egypt for civilians or are protesters trying to prevent a mass slaughter? Obama will lose a lot of his international momentum by not condemning the tactics of the police in Cairo.

I saw an armored Van on the live feed going at high speed through thousands o people trying to run them over. That is just disgusting.

[Tommy4ever]

What's the situation in Cairo?

Aside from Alexandria no other city can even come close to the importance of the capital in this revolution.

[PhoenixAsh]

Army moved into Cairo

Protestors have asked the army to protect them from the riot police. People are celebrating this. However its completely unclear what side the army will take.

I don't know what to make of it... :-S

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

BBC News 24 is just carrying an eye witness report from an Egyptian newspaper reporter that he has never seen such crowds and such intensity in Cairo. They are all fighting their way to the central square from different directions and the cops can't stop them.

[Chicano Shamrock]

It is being reported that the protesters in Cairo were calling for the Army but I hope for their sake that the Army isn't with the state.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Yes, this is what the Guardian has just reported:


Egyptian protesters in Cairo chanted slogans calling for the army to support them, complaining of police violence during clashes on Friday in which security forces fired teargas and rubber bullets. "Where is the army? Come and see what the police is doing to us. We want the army. We want the army," the protesters in one area of central Cairo shouted, shortly before police fired teargas on them.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

BBC News 24 has just reported that the protesters have just set fire to the Govenerate Building in Alexandria.

[Bandito]

Clips of street fighting in Cairo with Al Jazeera.
Al Jazeera's satellite link reporting from Egypt is cut, but they immediately activated the reserve one they have.

MtngzLGJqCo

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

^^^It's not working.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

From the Guardian:


3.17pm: A second police station has been taken over by protesters in Suez, reports al-Jazeera.

3.12pm: Following up from the previous update, al-Jazeera just showed pictures of protesters jumping and cheering beside what appeared to be an army armoured vehicle in Cairo with the occupants in the vehicle not responding in any kind of negative fashion. It's too early to get carried away but al-Jazeera was suggesting this could be a sign that the army's allegiance is with the people.

Let's just hope the hopes of the people are not misplaced.

[ed miliband]

I assume that guns are illegal in Egypt for civilians or are protesters trying to prevent a mass slaughter? Obama will lose a lot of his international momentum by not condemning the tactics of the police in Cairo.

I saw an armored Van on the live feed going at high speed through thousands o people trying to run them over. That is just disgusting.

The Al Jazeera live feed was showing a number of protesters carrying large guns.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Fortunately it missed, but that did not stop the crowd attacking it.

[PhoenixAsh]

Aljazeera: Military leaders declares: Curfew declared in Cairo, Alexandria and Suez. Army moved in to the national TV building.

[RedScare]

This is excellent, a revolution we can all agree on as progressive, haha. No anti-imperialist ambiguity here, only a corrupt Western lapdog.

[PhoenixAsh]

Military is reported in the building of the international press. Reporters suspect they may try to cancell international broadcasts.

[PhoenixAsh]

This is f* bizar....

Police and protestors have temporarily ceased activity for prayer. They are standing litterally yards away from each other. :blink:

[Broletariat]

The crucial question for Marxists in this uprising is: which classes are in motion and what is their leadership?

Egypt has a huge working class, unions, left parties (above and below ground), etc. To refer to a rising of "the Egyptian people" and not analyze the class forces involved is to become a cheerleader, passively following the events.

In the absence of conscious, revolutionary leadership, all these wonderful events will be lost. Bourgeois forces will want to government off the back of industry, etc.; petit-bourgeois forces will want more honest government, reforms, etc. Students, basically petit-bourgeois and bourgeois, will fight the police, but in the absence of a program, in the absence of leadership calling on the workers to form revolutionary organizations, this moment will be lost.

RED DAVE
What else can we do besides passively follow the events anyway? I ask this in a non-rhetorical manner.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

The Guardian has just reported this:


Egyptian state media is reporting a curfew starting at 6pm tonight (about 30 minutes away) and running until 7am tomorrow in Cairo, Alexandria and Suez.
The way it's looking on the streets at the moment suggests there is little chance of people obeying the order and what can the police actually do to enforce it.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Sky News has just reported that the crowds have now succeeded in reaching the central square from several directions. "They have routed the police.... They have lost their fear."

[Chicano Shamrock]

The Al Jazeera live feed was showing a number of protesters carrying large guns.

I saw that. It looked like they got them from a police van that was abandoned. They looked like they were just tear gas launchers though.

[Chambered Word]

I saw that. It looked like they got them from a police van that was abandoned. They looked like they were just tear gas launchers though.

I saw one of them actually taking one from a police van and walking off with it. Looked like the other protesters were begging him to let them have a shot with it. :)

[RED DAVE]

Let's try to get Marxist here:

Here's summary of important events:


Mohamed ElBaradei has returned to Egypt today, telling reporters there was no going back for the country and pledging to join protesters on the streets tomorrow.

• Violent protests continued in many parts of the country today, including the port of Suez. After four days of unrest, six people have died and almost 1,000 have been rounded up by police.

• Thousands are expected to attend tomorrow's marches – dubbed "the Friday of anger and freedom". Egypt's main opposition group, the Muslim Brotherhood, has thrown its weight behind tomorrow's protests, which are scheduled to follow Friday prayers.http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/jan/27/egypt-protests?showallcomments=true#block-64

• To which we might add that the army seems to be opting for the government.

Baradai and the Muslim Brotherhood represent no meaningful alternative to Mubarak in the sense that Marxists understand it. So far, there is no indication of working class motion in the name of the working class. For instance, what, if any, is the role of the dock workers in a place like Port Said?

This situation could well duplicate that of Iran, where a section of the petit-bourgeoisie, incarnate in the religious establishment, got control of the revolutionary movement and politically castrated it, with results we know.

The fact that all the revolutionary action is concentrated in the streets is not a source of strength. There is no call, from the unions or from the rank-and-file, for a general strike, etc.

I am not trying to be a nay-sayer but to point to what forces we, presumably as Marxists, should be watching for and hoping for and encouraging (should we have the wherewithal to do so).

RED DAVE

[Chicano Shamrock]

Good, I'm glad Marxists don't like.

[PhoenixAsh]

Al Jazeera is probably being shut down at the sime time the curfew starts. The police is on their way to their offfice right now. Just as police is pooring into the city.

This means the police will probably start violent coordinated action to attack the protestors and don't want witnesses. :(

[Volcanicity]

Footage from RT http://youtube.com/watch?v=3xWiBCIxjIk.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Sky reporter tells of one protester who showed him a tear gas cannister which had been made in the USA. "Is this what Obama means by democracy?" he asked.

[Chicano Shamrock]

I have seen petrol bombs thrown on the highway not around anything on the Al Jazeera feed. We can't see the protesters right now because they moved the camera.

[PhoenixAsh]

THs si not going to end well.

the army has been ordered to enforce the curfew. Military vehicles ahve been pooring into Cairo.

There is a lot of violence comming.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

From the Guardian:


3.55pm: Mubarak is due to address the nation in the next few minutes. Al-Jazeera's offices in Cairo are being raided by police. They are being told to stop broadcasting images of the unrest

[PhoenixAsh]

This revolution will not succeed if the army and police will remain loyal to the regime. :crying:

on lighter news...

People are now pushing a troop van into the Nile :laugh:

[Wanted Man]

Massive stuff going on, for sure.

I also agree with Dave about the need to analyse the class forces at work and to form opinions on what would be the best way forward. I don't really see how people could disagree with this. If you don't actually bother to think about this stuff, what else is there to do? Watch the footage on the PC with your dick in your hand? But apparently, according to someone here, trying to use your head counts as "not liking" the fact that these protests are going on, which is a bit dumb.

[RED DAVE]

Good, I'm glad Marxists don't like.With all due respect, Comrade, that is one dumb-ass remark. It's not a matter of "don't like." It's a matter of revolution. What we may be seeing, right before our eyes, is the massive failure of great uprising: it being either contained by the liberals (El Baradhi) and conservatives (Muslim Brotherhood, as I understand it) or smashed by the regime.

Marxism puts forth an approach to revolution based on the leading role of the working class and the importance of revolutionary organizations. What, for instance, would the situation be in Egypt if there was, in addition to the street demos, a general strike? But there are no forces calling for this? Is there any attempt to organize resistance within in the army?

Cheerleading for street demos is about as political as cheerleading for a football team. What is needed is politics.

RED DAVE

[Who?]

Does Egypt even have a capable Marxist organization? :confused:

[PhoenixAsh]

From a Marxist perspective it maybe the case that there is no socialist political direction towards a classless society. It is indeed a guess what will happen IF the revolution is succesful.

However the revolution and people unity is obvious. If nothing else the overthrow of Mubarak will lead to social change and will destabilize the political status quo in the area.

This will force policy change in the capitalist countries and towards the status quo with Israel.

Whatever happens now will lead to a change in how Egypt will interact with the US. Both real alternatives at the moment: Baradei and the MB will take a less anti Iran stance and a more pro Palestinian stance.

Baradei has earlier suggested a political platform in which marxists and communists are present. As such it is a hige step foreward form that perspective giving these political parties TV time and the rights to publish in papers. Which they haven't got now. As such there is a propaganda opportunity.

Expecting a socialist revolution in a country that has a CP which only has a few thousands members is naive. However though it may not bring about a socialist state it will send a clear signal that revolution CAN be succesful and can force change.

[PhoenixAsh]

Cheerleading for street demos is about as political as cheerleading for a football team. What is needed is politics.

RED DAVE

With all due respect but this is BS. These street revolutions will lead to a real change in the political status quo in the region. It will enforce policy change throughout the world. And will send a real message to dictatorial regimes in the ME.

Not realising this is a failure.

Also...should we not cheer the fact that they are trying to overthrow a regime that is torturing and raping people on a large scale to keep power? No matter what will happen later...that is now the main concern.

[PhoenixAsh]

DNP HQ in Cairo is on fire!

This is confirmed!!!

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Indeed:


TV pictures show the headquarters of the ruling NDP in Cairo are on fire.

From the Guardian, and the BBC has just reported it, too.

[Leo]

I just watched it online on Al Jazeera live.


Expecting a socialist revolution in a country that has a CP which only has a few thousands members is naive.

This is a rather ignorant remark, I don't think it is the CP which makes a revolution, but the working class and Egypt has a very significant and militant working class, which in the recent years has been involved in several struggles. Without the participation and the leadership of the workers in the movement as a part of the working class the movement can not succeed.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Well, of course you are right, Leo. But the crowd is like a headless beast. Unless they sort out the politics, we all know what will happen.

[Salyut]

DNP HQ in Cairo is on fire!

This is confirmed!!!

http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/?foo=bar

Watch it burn in real time.

[PhoenixAsh]

I just watched it online on Al Jazeera live.



This is a rather ignorant remark, I don't think it is the CP which makes a revolution, but the working class and Egypt has a very significant and militant working class, which in the recent years has been involved in several struggles. Without the participation and the leadership of the workers in the movement as a part of the working class the movement can not succeed.

I am sorry...are you aware of the position of Unions in Egypt? All are insubordiante to the DNP allied ETUF whoch nominates leadership in all alligned unions.

There are 1.7 million union workers who try in one way or anoter to oppose the regime and the ETUF. They are radical...but range in motivation and leadership from socialist to liberal to Islamic.

There are very, very few true socialist unions....so socialist doctine is not omni present.

These 1.7 million workers make up just a fraction of Egypts 80 million inhabitants.

Now...those 1.7 million workers have not organised the demonstrations. There are not 1.7 million workers on the streets leading the protests. There is no unified union call for revolution.

However socialists are present in the demonstrations.

There is no political leadership...and socialists are to few to gain it. Be they workers or not.

[Wanted Man]

From a Marxist perspective it maybe the case that there is no socialist political direction towards a classless society. It is indeed a guess what will happen IF the revolution is succesful.

However the revolution and people unity is obvious. If nothing else the overthrow of Mubarak will lead to social change and will destabilize the political status quo in the area.

This will force policy change in the capitalist countries and towards the status quo with Israel.

Whatever happens now will lead to a change in how Egypt will interact with the US. Both real alternatives at the moment: Baradei and the MB will take a less anti Iran stance and a more pro Palestinian stance.

Baradei has earlier suggested a political platform in which marxists and communists are present. As such it is a hige step foreward form that perspective giving these political parties TV time and the rights to publish in papers. Which they haven't got now. As such there is a propaganda opportunity.

Expecting a socialist revolution in a country that has a CP which only has a few thousands members is naive. However though it may not bring about a socialist state it will send a clear signal that revolution CAN be succesful and can force change.

"People" is a very broad understanding. Who are "the people"? Everyone? Should the working-class unite with other parts of "the people", like the bourgeoisie? Marxists say no, and we say that the working-class need to be conscious of who they are and where they stand in society, and take power as such. History is full of mass demonstrations by "the people" which were either smashed by the military or simply led to the installation of more liberal bosses. But I suspect that we all agree on this for about 90%, and it's just a confusion of definitions that should be cleared up.

Marxists also don't say that "the CP" is the one who makes a revolution and that anything else is not the real McCoy. It is the working-class who do it, but their consciousness is something that needs to be deliberate and thought-out. If you're headless, your enemy can outsmart you. This consciousness can lead to the creation of a revolutionary organisation. Whether it wants to call itself "the CP" or something else is secondary, but the idea of socialism and communism is quite a bit more potent, and the deliberate call for it can really change things around.

Other than that, I broadly agree with your post. Even if the protests don't lead to a fully-fledged revolution, they will have an emancipatory effect: workers will realise that their action can change society, and this knowledge can be used to great effect, especially when working-class revolutionaries will be emboldened by these events; but their full emancipation is another thing.

That's the difference in thought here. It has nothing to do with "not liking" something, as someone said earlier. The fact that Egypt has a large working-class and union movement puts them in a very strong position, but will they go even further and do the "unthinkable"? Let's hope so. :thumbup1:

[Tommy4ever]

Surely we can all agree that a liberal regime would be better than Mubaracks?

I don't expect a socialist revolution, it would be foolish to do so. But I feel defeating Mubarack has to be a positive thing for the Egyptian people.

This is also a powerful sign around the world of the power of the people.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

BBC is reporting that the protesters are ignoring the curfew. The army does not seem to be enforcing it.

[PhoenixAsh]

"People" is a very broad understanding. Who are "the people"? Everyone? Should the working-class unite with other parts of "the people", like the bourgeoisie? Marxists say no, and we say that the working-class need to be conscious of who they are and where they stand in society, and take power as such. History is full of mass demonstrations by "the people" which were either smashed by the military or simply led to the installation of more liberal bosses. But I suspect that we all agree on this for about 90%, and it's just a confusion of definitions that should be cleared up.

Marxists also don't say that "the CP" is the one who makes a revolution and that anything else is not the real McCoy. It is the working-class who do it, but their consciousness is something that needs to be deliberate and thought-out. If you're headless, your enemy can outsmart you. This consciousness can lead to the creation of a revolutionary organisation. Whether it wants to call itself "the CP" or something else is secondary, but the idea of socialism and communism is quite a bit more potent, and the deliberate call for it can really change things around.

Agreed.


However the working class do not politically educate themselves spontaniously. They need to organize themselves according to political principles. That consciousness does not create itself in a vacuum. It needs to be grown and organised. In Russia this took time and patience from the different socialist revolutionary groups...who created a platform for political awareness.

This has been abstinent in Egypt and the workingclass is hopelessly fragmented because their leadership. In the absense of socialists the workers have been looking towards other groups. Thus there are too few politically aware socialist workers to take leadership....and too many other factions, like MB, who are better organised and much, much larger in numbers.

Also note I am not a Marxist in the more dogmatic sense. So I do not agree with the non-alignment of the workers since workers in modern society will, IMO, not be able to enforce change themselves. Not only because the unions have become institutionalised (like is most definately the case in Egypt) but because workers in the traditional Marxist sense are more and more replaced by other classes and their numbers (in general) dwindeling.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

From the Guardian (about Cairo):


5:05 An Associated Press reporter saw the protesters cheering the police who joined them and hoisting them on their shoulders in one of the many dramatic and chaotic scenes across Egypt on Friday. After chasing the police, thousands of protesters were able to flood into the huge Tahrir Square downtown after being kept out most of the day by a very heavy police presence. Few police could be seen around the square after the confrontation.

[danyboy27]

The army seem to be doing exactly what the tunisian military did just before Ben ali left the country.

I guess all those generals are not really entusiast of having all this blood on their hands.

It might have something to do with the fact that the army is regarded has a prestigious institution in many Arab countries.

[PhoenixAsh]

Protestors have stormed the Foreign ministry

[Tommy4ever]

Its much less clear than that. The people seem to think that the army are coming in to help them, but so does Mubarack. Either way they are supporting the curfew.

I'm also naturally distrustful of the military so I could be wrong.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

BBC News have just interviewed an Egyptian worker.

Upon being asked if he was scared of the police, he replied "No. If I die, my wife will tell my son I died a man, fighting corruption. The police are thoroughly corrupt, but the army has men in it who love Egypt. They won't fire on us. I'm going to put down the phone now, and re-join the protest."

[danyboy27]

BBC Arabic correspondent Khaled Ezzelarab in Cairo reports: "Despite the curfew, demonstrators are surrounding the building of Egyptian radio and TV and trying to break into it. The building is guarded by armed forces, and the demonstrators are cheering for the army, while the latter is not getting into confrontations with the people."

[danyboy27]

Curfew extended to all cities, Reuters quotes state TV as saying.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Guardian:


5.34pm: A member of ElBaradei's group told al-Jazeera there are 80,000 people protesting in Port Said, where she said a 14-year-old had been killed.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

BBC News: "We were expecting Mubarak to address the nation nearly an hour ago. He has yet to appear. Every minute that goes by will weaken his authority and send out the message he is losing his grip."

[danyboy27]

1743: Middle East analyst Roger Hardy writes on the BBC News website: (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12311889)"If the Egyptian unrest turns into an Egyptian revolution, the implications for the Arab world - and for Western policy in the Middle East - will be immense. Egypt matters, in a way that tiny Tunisia - key catalyst that it has been in the current wave of protest - does not. It matters because its destiny affects, in a range of ways, not only Arab interests but Israeli, Iranian and Western interests, too."

[danyboy27]

1749: AP reporter Ashraf Sweilim reports that some Bedouins in Sinai are besieging the Sheikh Zoueid police station, demanding members of the security forces inside to surrender.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Guardian, reporting the views of a Human Rights Watch worker:


5:49 The army has deployed in Alexandria but atmosphere is calm. Soldiers are talking to protestors. Confirmed that Alexandria governorate and many police stations burned down.

[Lacrimi de Chiciură]

Agreed.


However the working class do not politically educate themselves spontaniously. They need to organize themselves according to political principles. That consciousness does not create itself in a vacuum. It needs to be grown and organised. In Russia this took time and patience from the different socialist revolutionary groups...who created a platform for political awareness.

This has been abstinent in Egypt and the workingclass is hopelessly fragmented because their leadership. In the absense of socialists the workers have been looking towards other groups. Thus there are too few politically aware socialist workers to take leadership....and too many other factions, like MB, who are better organised and much, much larger in numbers.

Also note I am not a Marxist in the more dogmatic sense. So I do not agree with the non-alignment of the workers since workers in modern society will, IMO, not be able to enforce change themselves. Not only because the unions have become institutionalised (like is most definately the case in Egypt) but because workers in the traditional Marxist sense are more and more replaced by other classes and their numbers (in general) dwindeling.

What other classes are those? In the traditional Marxist sense, workers are those who have only their own labor force to sell. Unless they now have some other way of creating wealth, which is impossible unless they control the means of production, they still possess the essence of proletarians. This revolt is a consequence of the global economic crisis and capitalism in its imperialist stage. Mubarak's son worked for Bank of America. Unless an alternative political vision (of workers control [actual democracy]) in response to the root causes of the revolt becomes the perspective of the new government, the revolt will have been for nothing. I don't think those people in revolt will let this happen. In a revolutionary situation people will be increasingly politicized and start seeing the class interests at stake.

The reason we are seeing increasing co-operation and solidarity between protesters and military/police is because of increasing class consciousness. In Tunisia, police told protesters not to attack police HQ, but instead directed them to loot the mansions of the capitalist class!

[danyboy27]

not sure of its linked but the dow jones is batshit insane right now.

down 132 point, was down by 200 earlier when protest erupted.

[danyboy27]

1759: The BBC's Yolande Knell has been out on the streets of Cairo, where she describes people running in the streets, with their eyes streaming as a result of the teargas hanging over the city. "We will never stop until this government goes," yelled one elderly man. Ordinary Egyptians appear to be losing their fear of direct confrontation with the security forces, says our correspondent. Read Yolande's eyewitness report here. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12312330)

[Tommy4ever]

not sure of its linked but the dow jones is batshit insane right now.

down 132 point, was down by 200 earlier when protest erupted.

Almost certainly. If the revolution succeeds the Middle East is going to be really unstable.

[danyboy27]

1803: US President Barack Obama has convened his national security team for a briefing on the unrest in Egypt, the Associated Press reports.

[danyboy27]

1804: There are unconfirmed reports of army personnel clashing with police in Cairo, according to al-Jazeera TV.

[danyboy27]

run RUN!!!
!

1808: CBS Radio News (http://twitter.com/#%21/AmoonaE) Amoona tweets: "The entire staff of the Israeli Embassy in Cairo has been evacuated by helicopters.

[danyboy27]

An Egyptian film producer calls on the army to deploy troops around the world-famous Cairo Museum, close to where one of the main protests has been taking place. He tells al-Arabiya TV that not "one single soldier" is currently protecting the institution.

[Leo]

I am sorry...are you aware of the position of Unions in Egypt? All are insubordiante to the DNP allied ETUF whoch nominates leadership in all alligned unions.

There are 1.7 million union workers who try in one way or anoter to oppose the regime and the ETUF. They are radical...but range in motivation and leadership from socialist to liberal to Islamic.

There are very, very few true socialist unions....so socialist doctine is not omni present.

These 1.7 million workers make up just a fraction of Egypts 80 million inhabitants.

Now...those 1.7 million workers have not organised the demonstrations. There are not 1.7 million workers on the streets leading the protests. There is no unified union call for revolution.

It is not the unions that make a revolution either. I am not talking about the trade-unions when I am talking about the working class. Trade-unions, in all countries, are well-established tools of the existing states. In Egypt this is simply more obvious and open compared to other countries. It is not the unions, but the working class who struggles.

Evidently, you haven't heard of Mahalla:
http://en.internationalism.org/wr/302/egypt-textile-struggles http://en.internationalism.org/wr/304/egypt-germs-of-mass-strike
http://en.internationalism.org/wr/309/egypt-independent-unions

[danyboy27]

1817: From BBC Arabic Correspondent Khaled Ezzelarab in the Egyptian capital: Military helicopters are roaming the skies of Cairo.

[danyboy27]

1826: Some support for the Mubarak regime from north of the border. "We believe that Egypt is going to overcome the current wave of demonstrations, but we have to look to the future," Time magazine quotes an Israeli government minister as saying. (http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2044929,00.html#ixzz1CM6kBc57)

[PhoenixAsh]

What other classes are those? In the traditional Marxist sense, workers are those who have only their own labor force to sell. Unless they now have some other way of creating wealth, which is impossible unless they control the means of production, they still possess the essence of proletarians. This revolt is a consequence of the global economic crisis and capitalism in its imperialist stage. Mubarak's son worked for Bank of America. Unless an alternative political vision (of workers control [actual democracy]) in response to the root causes of the revolt becomes the perspective of the new government, the revolt will have been for nothing. I don't think those people in revolt will let this happen. In a revolutionary situation people will be increasingly politicized and start seeing the class interests at stake.

The reason we are seeing increasing co-operation and solidarity between protesters and military/police is because of increasing class consciousness. In Tunisia, police told protesters not to attack police HQ, but instead directed them to loot the mansions of the capitalist class!

No according to Marx the Proletarians have nothing but their labour to sell.
Workers are a group within the proletariat that are in legal labour and receive wages. They are a distinct group and seperate in motives, ideals and political awareness from any other group who do not own means of production....but do belong to the proletariat.

Marx also states that the workers have much in common with the petite burgeoisie who rely on selfemployment but whose income is not much different from wage labour. On the diffuse edges of both these groups each individual must choose to which class they belong....or which they follow.

These days a lot of workers do own other means of production like capital in the form of stocks and savings in Western Europe. There is a fading boundrary between workers and the petit burgeoisie in western Europe.
Aswell as there is an increase in the Lumpen proletariat in Egypt.

I think the revolts in Egypt are lacking socialist class consciousness and direction...and rather are a reaction to supression of all classes except the ruling class. The entire proletariat is entirely divided on what they want other than democratic change within the current system. Politizising is then up to whatever populist message they get fed. Do not forget there are more MB in Egypt than workers....and the MB is far from socialist.

As such it is a socialist failure and will remain a capitalist society or become a theological capitalist society. Is it useless? No..its not useless in a pragmatic point of view. It will be a defininate blow to the political status quo.

[danyboy27]

1831: Sultan al-Qassemi (http://twitter.com/SultanAlQassemi) tweets: "Protestors have stormed Egyptian TV building&have destroyed some equipment. Helicopter is arriving

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Guardian:


06:38 -- The army are being cheered as they pass in tanks/armoured cars in Cairo by protesters who are clambering on to the vehicles.

Looks like fraternisation might have begun.:)

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Danny:


"Protestors have stormed Egyptian TV building&have destroyed some equipment.

Let's hope they don't destroy it, but use it to broadcast what is really happening.

[Irish Left]

Fair play to the Egyptions. Hopefully the Revolution spreads.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Guardian:


06:42pm -- Apparently, bizarrely, it's the president's national guard being cheered through the streets of Cairo as they make their way to the state TV station, which has been taken over by protesters.

[Dimentio]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01/28/biden-mubarak-step/

In the USA, Biden redefines what the term "Dictator" is meaning.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

And 'democracy' presumably now means what 'dictatorship' used to mean, I suppose.:lol:

[PhoenixAsh]

It is not the unions that make a revolution either. I am not talking about the trade-unions when I am talking about the working class. Trade-unions, in all countries, are well-established tools of the existing states. In Egypt this is simply more obvious and open compared to other countries. It is not the unions, but the working class who struggles.

Evidently, you haven't heard of Mahalla:
http://en.internationalism.org/wr/302/egypt-textile-struggles http://en.internationalism.org/wr/304/egypt-germs-of-mass-strike
http://en.internationalism.org/wr/309/egypt-independent-unions

Yes...as I argued in an earlier thread and my intro in the site I agree with your assessment of unions.

However....according to your argument this then is a revolution in the Marxist sense since workers as defined by being proletarians are indeed the leading factor in the revolution.

And I do not agree with that. As I stated Marx distinguishes between worker-proletariat, petit burgeoisie (lower class as being either one) and the Lumpen Proletariat.

Also there can be no socialist revolution without political awareness and class consciousness according to socialist principles. And I do not see that present as a leading force in the current revolution.

There is a huge gap in your theory stating that workers make revolution....and workers actually creating a socialist state.

what I see in egypt is class cooperation because of equal oppression by a government. NOT because they are realizing they are oppressed because of the capitalist system. For political awarenes they need to be made aware....by socialists. this is also pretty prevailant in Marx's writings. That is absent in Egypt on a large enough scale.

this revolutionas aims are reactionary and there is no socialist alternative put foreward.

I want to point back to the posts of Red Dave. My position is that although this is not a socialist revolution and will not lead to a socialist revolution
I still do not think it is useless.


I do want to direct your attention also towards your site...



It is also a phrase which flows logically from all that we have seen beforehand. The revolution is indeed the work of the proletarians themselves, of the workers’ councils where the proletariat masses its strength for battle. But this unitary power, this organisation of all the workers, cannot exist permanently. “The workers’ forces are like an army which regroups during the battle.” (Pannekoek)


As an emanation of the class, a manifestation of the process by which it becomes conscious, revolutionaries can only exist as such by becoming an active factor in this process.

(...) In fact, the role of revolutionaries can be summed up in one sentence: it is to organise themselves on the basis of the proletariat’s historic interests with a view to giving the movement a clear political orientation and actively to aid the development of class consciousness.

In essence...organising the workers class in...well...for lack of a better word...revolutionary councils/unions.

That is not happening here in Egypt.

[danyboy27]

1834: AP journalist Ashraf Sweilim in Sinai reports that Bedouins in the area have besieged a police station, and are asking for security forces inside to surrender. Also in Sinai, armed men have taken control of the road leading into the town of Rafah, reportedly taking a number of policemen as hostages.

[PhoenixAsh]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01/28/biden-mubarak-step/

In the USA, Biden redefines what the term "Dictator" is meaning.

what a complete muppet. No...wait...thats an insult to the muppets.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

UK Channel Four News has just reported from Cairo that the organisers have called for more protests tomorrow.

[Leo]

However....according to your argument this then is a revolution in the Marxist sense since workers as defined by being proletarians are indeed the leading factor in the revolution.

I am not sure whether the workers are the leading factor in the current Egyptian events. I wouldn't describe it as a revolution either. What has been happening is demonstrations, protests, clashes and so on. A revolution is a bit more than that. Even the events in Tunisia, where the working class is involved in the mass struggle as a class, infact as one of the leading factors it seems, I wouldn't desccribe what has happened as a revolution. A revolt, an uprising, yes, certainly, but a revolution is when one class overthrows another, and the bourgeoisie is still in power in Tunisia, although Ben Ali is gone.


what I see in egypt is class cooperation because of equal oppression by a government. NOT because they are realizing they are oppressed because of the capitalist system.

If the movement is just this, then it would indeed be quite worthless, and fundamentally identical to all the color revolutions in Eastern Europe, a democratic popular movement created by a bourgeois faction as a manouver against another one.

However, this is a mass movement which arose in a spontaneous way, and its initial dynamic was against "torture, poverty and unemployment". These are, on a very basic level, class demands, that is proletarian demands, not democratic demands.

A mass movement of the proletariat is different from a popular movement in the bourgeois democratic terrain, yet the line is never very clear initially. A proletarian mass movement is sparked around class demands, wheras a popular movement is launched based on democratic demands. A popular democratic movement can not be sparked, however, without touching the discontent of the proletarian mass. On the other hand, the bourgeoisie always seeks to create illusions and mystifications within proletarian mass movements. The line is not really that clear either. A movement which begins as a mass movement of the proletariat can be derailed, mislead and destroyed by such ideological manipulations of the bourgeoisie, but it is also possible for the bourgeoisie to lose control of a popular movement which it itself might have created. The determining factor is the participation of the currently working section of the proletariat - for the proletariat as a class includes more than workers with jobs - the unemployed, students and youth from proletarian families, the housewives, the soldiers, the retired etc. are all proletarians who will have to be a part of the mass struggle, yet who do not have the economical power to go on strike. The currently working section of the working class, due to its power which comes from production, has the task of using this power and leading the mass movement. Without the active participation of this section of the proletariat, any popular mobilization will do nothing but serve the interests of the bourgeoisie, and any genuine mass movement will not be able to avoid this or that sort of defeat.

[Black Sheep]

A rather good video montage

jx3XHhtMNs8

[PhoenixAsh]

I am not sure whether the workers are the leading factor in the current Egyptian events. I wouldn't describe it as a revolution either. What has been happening is demonstrations, protests, clashes and so on. A revolution is a bit more than that. Even the events in Tunisia, where the working class is involved in the mass struggle as a class, infact as one of the leading factors it seems, I wouldn't desccribe what has happened as a revolution. A revolt, an uprising, yes, certainly, but a revolution is when one class overthrows another, and the bourgeoisie is still in power in Tunisia, although Ben Ali is gone.

Fair enough. Yes. I agree with your analysis here. Revolution is not the right word.



If the movement is just this, then it would indeed be quite worthless, and fundamentally identical to all the color revolutions in Eastern Europe, a democratic popular movement created by a bourgeois faction as a manouver against another one.I fear this one is no different. From a socialist perspective it would then be indeed worthless. From a political status quo and imperialism perspective it would be a change....and as such not worthless



However, this is a mass movement which arose in a spontaneous way, and its initial dynamic was against "torture, poverty and unemployment". These are, on a very basic level, class demands, that is proletarian demands, not democratic demands.

A mass movement of the proletariat is different from a popular movement in the bourgeois democratic terrain, yet the line is never very clear initially. A proletarian mass movement is sparked around class demands, wheras a popular movement is launched based on democratic demands. A popular democratic movement can not be sparked, however, without touching the discontent of the proletarian mass. On the other hand, the bourgeoisie always seeks to create illusions and mystifications within proletarian mass movements. The line is not really that clear either. A movement which begins as a mass movement of the proletariat can be derailed, mislead and destroyed by such ideological manipulations of the bourgeoisie, but it is also possible for the bourgeoisie to lose control of a popular movement which it itself might have created. The determining factor is the participation of the currently working section of the proletariat - for the proletariat as a class includes more than workers with jobs - the unemployed, students and youth from proletarian families, the housewives, the soldiers, the retired etc. are all proletarians who will have to be a part of the mass struggle, yet who do not have the economical power to go on strike. The currently working section of the working class, due to its power which comes from production, has the task of using this power and leading the mass movement. Without the active participation of this section of the proletariat, any popular mobilization will do nothing but serve the interests of the bourgeoisie, and any genuine mass movement will not be able to avoid this or that sort of defeat.


Yes...I believe we are arguing the same position. the protestors need political direction and awareness. This is not yet the case in Egypt at the moment but perhaps this will change in the coming hours and days.

[PhoenixAsh]

Rumours spread after police withdrew very quickly that the Egyptian museum (which has 1/3 of world’s monuments) was about to get robbed. All TV channels were talking about attempts to enter to steal the museum. Once the rumour was spread, thousands and thousands of Egyptians have now made human chains all around the museum to make sure NO one enters. I'm so PROUD of you Egyptians


earlier there were also reports Voda stores were being trashed out of anger with them stopping network acces. However demonstrators did prevent the stores frorm being looted.

[punisa]

What will happen if Mubarak is chased out of the country tonight? Comments on Al Jazeera say that the military might take over.

[danyboy27]

What will happen if Mubarak is chased out of the country tonight? Comments on Al Jazeera say that the military might take over.

heard that too on the BBC has well.

[punisa]

related (good read while we wait for more news):
Internet Kill Switch: Should the United States Emulate Egypt?
http://www.aolnews.com/2011/01/28/internet-kill-switch-should-the-united-states-emulate-egypt/

[Red Commissar]

Video of demonstrators pushing police back across the Kasr al-Nile bridge from earlier in the day:

j_kjIVzJRfY

[RedScare]

Rumours spread after police withdrew very quickly that the Egyptian museum (which has 1/3 of world’s monuments) was about to get robbed. All TV channels were talking about attempts to enter to steal the museum. Once the rumour was spread, thousands and thousands of Egyptians have now made human chains all around the museum to make sure NO one enters. I'm so PROUD of you Egyptians


earlier there were also reports Voda stores were being trashed out of anger with them stopping network acces. However demonstrators did prevent the stores frorm being looted.
This was one of the things that scared me a lot. Egypt has an amazingly rich cultural heritage,and would be an international tragedy if the museum had burned down or been looted.

[PhoenixAsh]

We are all Khaled Said (http://www.facebook.com/elshaheeed.co.uk)
Urgent: Breaking news: We need your prayers now. Head of Egyptian parliament has said that he will be making an important announcement very soon.

According to Egyptian law, if the president is not avaialble, the head of parliament takes over for a temperoraily period.

[punisa]

From Al Jazeera: all important businessmen in Egypt fled the country.

[punisa]

Is army good or bad? Discuss. The latest I heard is that the demonstrators cheered towards some tanks, but blocked others. Why?

[Red Commissar]

From Al Jazeera: all important businessmen in Egypt fled the country.

Capitalists flee the sinking ship like rats, it seems.


Is army good or bad? Discuss. The latest I heard is that the demonstrators cheered towards some tanks, but blocked others. Why?

It's confusing. From the feed that Al-Jazeera has the military isn't enforcing the curfew orders and just taking place in certain locations- airport, museum, etc. They aren't responding like the police did earlier. I'd imagine there might be some conflicting orders originating within the ministry of defense.

They might have some moves within the government and military like there was in Tunisia to jettison an unpopular figure (Mubarak). That's me being optimistic though. It seems they're still weighting the possibilities.

[punisa]

They might have some moves within the government and military like there was in Tunisia to jettison an unpopular figure (Mubarak). That's me being optimistic though.

Nobody can say exactly what is happening, but somehow I think that Mubarak has already lost the power and the military will be in charge before the dawn.

[Red Commissar]

Nobody can say exactly what is happening, but somehow I think that Mubarak has already lost the power and the military will be in charge before the dawn.

Yes, I think especially after he failed to appear on state television it indicates something is going on in the upper echelons of the government.

Also- a pamphlet the Atlantic has posted that some protesters had:

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/01/egyptian-activists-action-plan-translated/70388/
http://assets.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/science/assets_c/2011/01/Page%201_rev2-thumb-600x424-41204.jpg
http://assets.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/science/assets_c/2011/01/Page%202_rev2-thumb-600x424-41209.jpg
http://assets.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/science/assets_c/2011/01/Page%203_rev-thumb-600x424-41211.jpg
http://assets.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/science/assets_c/2011/01/Page%204_rev-thumb-600x424-41213.jpg
http://assets.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/science/assets_c/2011/01/Page%2010_rev-thumb-600x424-41215.jpg
http://assets.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/science/assets_c/2011/01/Page%2012_rev-thumb-600x424-41218.jpg
http://assets.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/science/assets_c/2011/01/Page%2013_rev2-thumb-600x424-41222.jpg
http://assets.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/science/assets_c/2011/01/Page%2022_rev-thumb-600x424-41225.jpg
http://assets.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/science/assets_c/2011/01/Page%2026_rev-thumb-600x424-41227.jpg

[Red Commissar]

Al Jazeera is claiming that Nile TV (not state TV) is reporting that Mubarak is expected to appear on TV to make some statements. Can't vouch for that yet.

Edit: Al Jazeera has Mubarak on right now giving some token statements.

Edit mark 2: Moron is trying to claim he is combating social problems and these protests aren't needed.

Edit mark 3: He calls on the populace to stand up for their country and stand down protesting. blah blah blah blah

[Sentinel]

Yeah he promised in the speech that he would 'make some reforms'. I doubt the people will be satisfied with empty promises from this proven tyrant.

More likely they will be as uncompromising as the people of Tunisia. :)

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Mubarak has just been on TV to say he has dissolved the government and instructed certain 'reforms'. He is to stay on, apparently.

I don't think so...:lol:

[freepalestine]

Vodafone confirms role in Egypt’s cellular, Internet blackout



By Stephen C. Webster (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/author/stephencwebster/)
Friday, January 28th, 2011 -- 2:46 pm
http://www.rawstory.com/images/redditbutton.gif (http://www.reddit.com/submit)http://cdn.rawstory.com/rs/wp-content/themes/revamped/img/stumbler.png Stumble This! (http://www.stumbleupon.com/submit?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rawstory.com%2Frs%2F20 11%2F01%2Fvodafone-confirms-role-egypts-cellular-internet-blackout%2F&title=Vodafone confirms role in Egypt’s cellular, Internet blackout)






http://www.rawstory.com/images/new/vodafonelogo.jpg


An executive at London-based Vodafone Group PLC explained Friday morning that it did indeed have a role in the phone and Internet blackout affecting Egypt since Thursday night, confirming speculation that the firm had cooperated with the regime to close off protesters' communications.
Vodafone Group CEO Vittorio Colao said (http://blogs.wsj.com/dispatch/2011/01/28/vodafone-ceo-explains-egypt-phone-cutoff/) that because the order by Egyptian authorities appeared to be in line with the nation's laws, the company was "obligated" to comply.

Egypt, which has been under a declared state of "emergency" for decades, long ago passed a series of security provisions that were later mirrored in post-9/11 powers assumed by leaders in the US. Egypt's provisions, however, went much further (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/perpetual-emergency-1981-egypt-gave-government-uslike-special-powers/).

The Egyptian government's order to shut down applied to all mobile phone operators and Internet service providers in the country. A graphic depicting Internet traffic to and from the country (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/29/technology/internet/29cutoff.html) showed a dramatic and almost complete drop-off starting Thursday morning.

Some land-line service, however, was reportedly still functioning by late Friday. Sporadic reports of working DSL connections surfaced by late Friday as well, and a French Internet service provider had begun offering free dial-up access (http://www.securitynewsdaily.com/egyptians-scramble-to-get-back-online-after-government-shutdown-0467/) to Egyptians.



Rumors that neighboring Syria had cut off its Internet access as well surfaced on Friday morning, but follow-up reports (http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/106401/20110128/egypt-shuts-down-internet-syria-still-up.htm) found no evidence this was the case.

Vodafone was for years the Egyptian government's partner in building and maintaining the regime's official website and network infrastructure.
Protesters on Friday destroyed Vodafone stores in Cairo, among other locations tied to the ruling regime, according to reports by Al Jazeera English.

In the wake of Iran's "green revolution," the relationship between Western technology providers and the country's oppressive regime became painfully apparent when The Wall Street Journal revealed (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124562668777335653.html) that Siemens AG and Nokia Corp. aided the development of a digital censorship apparatus.

"If you sell networks, you also, intrinsically, sell the capability to intercept any communication that runs over them," a spokesman for the two firms' joint venture told the paper. He suggested the regime's "monitoring center," which even allowed deep-packet inspection and information tampering through Internet back-doors, was a standard part of a larger telecom contract with Iran.

It was unclear whether Vodafone's government-sponsored network worked similarly in Egypt.
Raw Story's requests for comment sent to Vodafone's corporate relations arm did not trigger a reply.
Vodafone Group PLC owns a 45 percent stake in US communications provider Verizon Wireless.



http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/vodafone-confirms-role-egypts-cellular-internet-blackout

[~Spectre]

Mubarak has just been on TV to say he has dissolved the government and instructed certain 'reforms'. He is to stay on, apparently.

I don't think so...:lol:


Mubarak "I am for freedom!" "I will appoint a new government and work with them on very specific goals, that i will set"!


The people have the right idea:
Hundreds or thousands also came out in other cities yesterday. In Alexandria, a crowd of 1,000 called for President Hosni Mubarak to leave the country (http://www.almasryalyoum.com/en/news/alexandria-protesters-call-mubaraks-departure), as Zine Ben Ali departed Tunisia for Saudi Arabia. They taunted Mubarak “Saudi Arabia is waiting for you.”

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

It's Ozymandias, all over again:


I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: "Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown
And wrinkled lip and sneer of cold command
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed.
And on the pedestal these words appear:
'My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!'
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away".

Percy Bysshe Shelley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percy_Bysshe_Shelley)

[PhoenixAsh]

Yes...what do you know...apparently they had freedom all along and everything is just a big misunderstanding :laugh:

[CleverTitle]

What a joke. Does Mubarak actually think that the Egyptian people are so stupid?

[INI]

Yes, I think especially after he failed to appear on state television it indicates something is going on in the upper echelons of the government.

Also- a pamphlet the Atlantic has posted that some protesters had:

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/01/egyptian-activists-action-plan-translated/70388/
http://assets.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/science/assets_c/2011/01/Page%201_rev2-thumb-600x424-41204.jpg
http://assets.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/science/assets_c/2011/01/Page%202_rev2-thumb-600x424-41209.jpg
http://assets.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/science/assets_c/2011/01/Page%203_rev-thumb-600x424-41211.jpg
http://assets.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/science/assets_c/2011/01/Page%204_rev-thumb-600x424-41213.jpg
http://assets.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/science/assets_c/2011/01/Page%2010_rev-thumb-600x424-41215.jpg
http://assets.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/science/assets_c/2011/01/Page%2012_rev-thumb-600x424-41218.jpg
http://assets.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/science/assets_c/2011/01/Page%2013_rev2-thumb-600x424-41222.jpg
http://assets.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/science/assets_c/2011/01/Page%2022_rev-thumb-600x424-41225.jpg
http://assets.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/science/assets_c/2011/01/Page%2026_rev-thumb-600x424-41227.jpg

:thumbup1: Beat me to it! I'm going to quote this because this is worth a bump. I love seeing this kind of organization by the People.

Solidarity

Tunisia... Egypt... let this continue to all corners of our Earth... "can't cool, can't quench, ever lasting burning fireeeeee, my true heart desireeeee" hah :wub:

[Red Commissar]

Yeah he promised in the speech that he would 'make some reforms'. I doubt the people will be satisfied with empty promises from this proven tyrant.

More likely they will be as uncompromising as the people of Tunisia. :)

He pretty much repeated what Ben Ali did- even so far as to dismiss his cabinet and promising to form a new one.

Of course, the Egyptian demonstrators probably won't accept that.

[punisa]

In Egypt president = power. The fact that he will dismiss the government (himself not included) means nothing.
I hope Egyptians will follow the case of Tunisia all the way and stop at nothing short of the full scale revolution.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

BBC News has just reported that the military has just taken control of Tahrir Square.

[Sentinel]

BBC says that the military has seized control over the main square of Cairo, which was held by the protesters earlier.

[Sentinel]

BBC News has just reported that the military has just taken control of Tahrir Square.

We are precisely as fast! Let's see what happens now..

[Tommy4ever]

I think that for now the army is just trying to calm things down. I'm not sure which alternate reality Mubarack is living in but most of these protests were directed straight at him. He has to go. I reckon tommorrow the army is going to effectively make their choice. Sticking with Mubarack is unlikely to work so they will probably raise their man to the Presidency. Or mabye they will allow for democracy.

For now though they want to get the people back to their homes.

[PhoenixAsh]

We are all Khaled Said (http://www.facebook.com/elshaheeed.co.uk)
Tomorrow we will wake up to another day of street fightings. More lives will be lost because of a dictator.

Mubarak said that the protests are a "dark plot" made by "evil forces". He is obviously a fan of star wars.
He called protesters as "evil elements". He said he will continue the movement of reform! 30 years of reform? Does the wor...d failure comes to his mind ever?

[The Fighting_Crusnik]

Ok, so I understand that they want their government, specifically their dictator-president out of power, which is a good thing. But... what is the long term goal of the Egyptian people? In other words, what do they want specifically :confused:

[Sentinel]

He also said in his recent infamous speech, that he is 'on the side of the poor in Egypt'. Must have been news to the people concerned, as it sort of hasn't seemed like that so far.. :rolleyes:


But... what is the long term goal of the Egyptian people? In other words, what do they want specificallyFreedom, dignity and bread, have been the most common words used for their demands. Ie, the protesters want democracy and welfare.

[Tommy4ever]

Ok, so I understand that they want their government, specifically their dictator-president out of power, which is a good thing. But... what is the long term goal of the Egyptian people? In other words, what do they want specifically :confused:

Right now the Anti-Mubarack forces are united. The biggest force are the Islamists, there are also liberal pro-democracy forces and socialists in the mix. In that order according to influence.

[Tommy4ever]

According to AJ the Muslim Brotherhood (biggest opposition) have asked the military to finally topple Mubarack.

[Sentinel]

The islamists may be great force, but as I've understood it, until recently they have been quite passive and the actual demonstrations have been dominated by the more secular elements even in Egypt. I hope I haven't been misinformed.

[William Howe]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/01/28/shaikh.egypt.protests/index.html?eref=mrss_igoogle_cnn



(CNN) -- We are in the midst of a brave new world.
The uprisings raging from Tunisia to Egypt to Yemen are heralding a new Arab, post-Islamist revolution.
Today's events across Egypt illustrate the futility of a dictatorial Mubarak regime seeking to push back the tides of history with mere repression and brutality. They will not succeed.
President Hosni Mubarak's days, like those of deposed Algerian President Zine El-Abidine Ben Ali, are numbered. The effects on the region were, until today, unthinkable.
Today's Arab revolution is no less significant than those that preceded it in recent decades in Eastern Europe and Latin America. This time, Arabs are not being led by their leaders -- from colonialism to pan-Arabism or Islamism or any other "ism" -- as was the case in the past.
Instead, they have turned on those leaders who have failed to provide them their dignity, justice and a better life. Make no mistake, we are witnessing today an Arab people's revolution.
Like those before them, today's Arab revolution will transform the region's politics. What is happening today is nothing short of what the respected Arab commentator, Rami Khouri, prophetically described late last year as the birth of Arab politics. He was right. Politics in the region will never be the same again.
Propelled by the young and the digital revolution, citizens will demand nothing less than the right to choose and change their representatives in the future.
To glimpse the nature of what can emerge, we should understand the rapidly changing social structure of Arab societies. Those societies are more educated, urban and connected than ever before. Due to the phenomenal growth of secondary and university-level education, literacy rates among the region's youths have skyrocketed in the past 40 years. The percentage of people living in Arab cities has risen by 50% in the same period.
The number of mobile phone users and internet users has proliferated to hundreds of thousands since the technology was introduced to the region 10 or 15 years ago. No wonder, then, that the people have finally snapped at the lack of opportunity and representation and the high levels of corruption and control that characterize their lives.
Most tellingly, more has united the protesting people than divided them. Notable has been the absence of a clear, emerging leader of the protests, particularly from Islamist party leadership.
The call for dignity, justice and a better life has been a universal value -- not the domain of any one particular opposing party or movement. Instead, the national movements, which these conditions have spawned, will continue to demand a political system that is more pluralistic, democratic and produces effective and competent governments sensitive to the legitimate aspirations of all the society's people.
Crucially, the unfolding events will also require a new set of calculations from the old regimes' main backers: the United States and its allies. The long-term changes for Western policy in the region should be profound. Gone should be the reflex to side with those who willfully subvert the democratic and constitutional process out of fear of the Islamist boogeyman.
The binary calculation between supporting stability on the one hand and the risks of unprecedented regime change, particularly the rise to power of Islamist parties, no longer holds. The people of the region are deciding.
The irony is that while U.S. policymakers have been playing catch-up, it has largely been U.S.-created technology -- the internet, particularly Facebook and Twitter -- that has sustained the spread of the Arab revolution.
Now is the time for policymakers to suggest an appropriate response to support a peaceful political transition in each country. Western policymakers must strike a careful balance between ensuring key interests (including support for a comprehensive peace in the Arab-Israeli conflict and Israel's security) and respecting the wishes of the region's people. In this regard, support for the peace process and Israel's interests will best be ensured by real and tangible progress over the next year.
In the case of Egypt, the most populated Arab nation and symbol of Arab leadership, the transition will be particularly important. If managed well, it will provide a useful example for all in the days and weeks ahead. The U.S. in particular has a role in persuading Mubarak to outline a peaceful transition of power to an interim administration that will manage the process to a new democratic constitution and elections.
There should also be a role for international and regional organizations such as the United Nations, the European Union, the Gulf Council and the Organization of the Islamic Conference to lend technical and material support to the transition.
It has not been lost on many that the U.S. and other Western governments have been trying to catch up to the unfolding events -- attempting to balance support for old friends and allies with a call for restraint and urgent economic and political reforms.
This will not do. It is time to break through the past fears that have guided Western policy with fresh hope for a better future for the people of the region. It is time to choose change.

[danyboy27]

an idiot with no knowledge of the geopolitical structure of the middle east said




2308: Outspoken as ever, right-wing US radio talk-show host Glenn Beck tweets: (http://twitter.com/glennbeck) "Egypt may be a tipping point. Yemen and Jordan also have smaller uprisings. Iran is smiling, the Saudis and Israelis are not. Pray4peace."

[Tommy4ever]

you should give sources.
links

I'm watching the Al Jazeera feed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

It's also mentioned here on the BBC:

2312: Al-Jazeera quotes unnamed officials from Egypt's main opposition movement, the Muslim Brotherhood, reacting to Mr Mubarak's speech tonight: "Mubarak must step down. It is time for the military to intervene and save the country."

[Sentinel]

President Hosni Mubarak's days, like those of deposed Algerian President Zine El-Abidine Ben Ali, are numbered.

Let's hope so. Ben Ali was President of Tunisia though, how unprofessional of CNN.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

BBC is carrying another live report from the guy I quoted earlier (the one who said he was not afraid, and was prepared to die like a man if necessary to get rid of this regime), who tells us that Mubarak's statement has only made the crowds angrier, and more determined to kick him out.

BBC interviewer: "What would it take to satisfy the protesters?"

Answer: "The news he has fled to S Arabia in a helicopter."

[Dimentio]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-11777943

Idiot. :laugh:

The last thing you should do if you are about to be toppled is to give concessions.

That would only appear as weakness.

He is almost certainly roasted now.

[danyboy27]

i love how the us governement is trying to minimize the damage this crisis have created.

They know they are fucked, and the only thing they can do is side with the protester to prevent the new governement to hate their guts.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Indeed, and as usual, when the masses enter history as a collective force, it always catches these b*stards on the hop.

[danyboy27]

seriously, i am so happy to be alive to see all this.

[William Howe]

seriously, i am so happy to be alive to see all this.

The Middle East has long been home to some of the most oppressive, corrupt governments in history. This will finally bring some democracy and freedom to their countries.

It's also very good to see men and women working side-by-side in this uprising. Women have so long been considered 'inferior' there, and to see them putting aside religious bigotry for the common good is an incredible thing.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Danny,


seriously, i am so happy to be alive to see all this.

Here's what Wordsworth wrote about the French Revolution:


OH! pleasant exercise of hope and joy!
For mighty were the auxiliars which then stood
Upon our side, we who were strong in love!
Bliss was it in that dawn to be alive,
But to be young was very heaven!--Oh! times,
In which the meagre, stale, forbidding ways
Of custom, law, and statute, took at once
The attraction of a country in romance!
When Reason seemed the most to assert her rights,
When most intent on making of herself
A prime Enchantress--to assist the work,
Which then was going forward in her name!
Not favoured spots alone, but the whole earth,
The beauty wore of promise, that which sets
(As at some moment might not be unfelt
Among the bowers of paradise itself)
The budding rose above the rose full blown.
What temper at the prospect did not wake
To happiness unthought of? The inert
Were roused, and lively natures rapt away!
They who had fed their childhood upon dreams,
The playfellows of fancy, who had made
All powers of swiftness, subtilty, and strength
Their ministers,--who in lordly wise had stirred
Among the grandest objects of the sense,
And dealt with whatsoever they found there
As if they had within some lurking right
To wield it;--they, too, who, of gentle mood,
Had watched all gentle motions, and to these
Had fitted their own thoughts, schemers more mild,
And in the region of their peaceful selves;--
Now was it that both found, the meek and lofty
Did both find, helpers to their heart's desire,
And stuff at hand, plastic as they could wish;
Were called upon to exercise their skill,
Not in Utopia, subterranean fields,
Or some secreted island, Heaven knows where!
But in the very world, which is the world
Of all of us,--the place where in the end
We find our happiness, or not at all

Bold added.

[danyboy27]

i am still laughing at news of the emergency evacutation of the israeli embassy.

i imagine them swearing, quickly getting their shit together to bail out has peoples are chanting in the streets.

it would make i think a funny movie sequence.

[Weezer]

Good, I'm glad Marxists don't like.

YEAH LET'S HAVE A RIOT

FUCK THE POLICE

Who cares about actual revolution? There's violence! I like violence! :thumbup1:

[danyboy27]

YEAH LET'S HAVE A RIOT

FUCK THE POLICE

Who cares about actual revolution? There's violence! I like violence! :thumbup1:


who care about bringing down a autocrat regime in power for 30 year right?

hoo that right the egyptian peoples.

[Sentinel]

According to Al Jazeera just a minute ago, the protests have intensified since Mubarak's speech.

The people are rejecting his shitty 'concessions', and still demanding his resignation.

[Weezer]

who care about bringing down a autocrat regime in power for 30 year right?

hoo that right the egyptian peoples.

You realize I was mocking ChicanoShamrock's post right?

[danyboy27]

You realize I was mocking ChicanoShamrock's post right?

nevermind then...

[punisa]

According to Al Jazeera just a minute ago, the protests have intensified since Mubarak's speech.

The people are rejecting his shitty 'concessions', and still demanding his resignation.

Did anyone notice how Al Jazeera stopped filming the protesters as soon as Mubarak gave his speech?
Strange indeed...

[Sasha]

Nobody can say exactly what is happening, but somehow I think that Mubarak has already lost the power and the military will be in charge before the dawn.

this might actually be an not unlikely scenario, the military is very respect in egypt, apperently lots of demonstrators today where calling on the military to protect them against the cops. when the tanks rolled in people cheered them and climed on top of them.
and since its rumoured that the top brass is very against the launch of mubaraks son as the heir apperent they might see this as their chance.
would suck if the best that came out of this revolt would be an military coup, but again i think its an very likely scenario.
military removes mumbarak with US blessing, al baderei will form an an goverment of national unity with or at least consesions towards the moderate parts of the muslim brotherhood, capitalism continues more or less as ussual.

[punisa]

would suck if the best that came out of this revolt would be an military coup

Exactly what I wanted to say.
I understand that people well glad to see the army on the streets which meant that the police is gone and no more clashes will occur, but at the same time I felt a bit sad - this huge people's uprising was in a way tranquilized by the military.

When I saw that video from the bridge where they chased away the police - I said to myself: holy fuck - these people will go all the way.
Don't want to sound as an ass and make it look like we're watching an action movie that suddenly stopped... I genuinely feel that the working class of Egypt (and Tunisia and so on) right now have that much needed critical mass which could create a workers' controlled country.

[danyboy27]

this might actually be an not unlikely scenario, the military is very respect in egypt, apperently lots of demonstrators today where calling on the military to protect them against the cops. when the tanks rolled in people cheered them and climed on top of them.
and since its rumoured that the top brass is very against the launch of mubaraks son as the heir apperent they might see this as their chance.
would suck if the best that came out of this revolt would be an military coup, but again i think its an very likely scenario.
military removes mumbarak with US blessing, al baderei will form an an goverment of national unity with or at least consesions towards the moderate parts of the muslim brotherhood, capitalism continues more or less as ussual.

of course capitalism will continue. It might not be a capitalism that will favor the usa tho.

[Leo]

http://www.aboujahjah.com/?p=250


My info is that Moubarak left the country but that the news will not be declared until Brigadier general Sami Annan returns from the U.S. to become president. This is what America wants… But the people should topple the coup too in case this is proven right, we will wait and see. But my source is very credible!

[danyboy27]

http://www.aboujahjah.com/?p=250


fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

[punisa]

http://www.aboujahjah.com/?p=250

??? :confused: I don't get it... obviously this is an obsolete news. Mubarak said he will stay remember?

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

BBC says that Reuters is reporting that 24 people have been killed, over a thousand injured.

Mubarak Obama, er..., sorry, Mubarak has much to answer for.

[danyboy27]

??? :confused: I don't get it... obviously this is an obsolete news. Mubarak said he will stay remember?


just dug the news in question and its 4 hours old.

[Leo]

Apparently there are rumors that Mubarek's speech was recorded and that he might have fled before it was broadcast. The same blogger says:


Moubarak went out to speak as if he is living in another planet; no concessions whatsoever apart from sacking a government that cannot govern anyhow. Some say the message was recorded and the tyrant already left the country, many believe otherwise. I believe that he either left or will leave very soon.

http://www.aboujahjah.com/?p=251

No point in speculating of course, we will see.