I need some help (NumbersUSA).

[Salyut]

A good American friend of mine is getting into the heavy anti-immigrant stuff and linked me to this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muw22wTePqQ&feature=player_embedded) I know Roy Beck has a history of association with various far-right groups, but does anyone have something that tears this video to pieces?

[#FF0000]

Anyone who think immigration is a bad thing is an idiot who should crack open a history book once in awhile. :mellow:

[Misanthrope]

Is your friend a capitalist? Assuming he is, immigration is just capitalism at work. Workers (which are viewed as a commodity) migrate (if possible) to places where they can succeed economically easiest. In essence, it's just the market at work. Now is this relevant to us as revolutionary communists? No. I don't care what state a worker is considered a citizen of, they're all proletariat! What's more is that there is no legitimacy in the state. Who gives the state the right to not allow people to live on "their" land.

A country completely made up (except the native population) of generations of immigrants scared to death of immigration. :rolleyes:

[Salyut]

Anyone who think immigration is a bad thing is an idiot who should crack open a history book once in awhile. :mellow:

I've been trying that approach. Doesn't work.


Is your friend a capitalist? Assuming he is, immigration is just capitalism at work. Workers (which are viewed as a commodity) migrate (if possible) to places where they can succeed economically easiest. In essence, it's just the market at work. Now is this relevant to us as revolutionary communists? No. I don't care what state a worker is considered a citizen of, they're all proletariat! What's more is that there is no legitimacy in the state. Who gives the state the right to not allow people to live on "their" land.


He is a Libertarian party member but exposes this weird pseudo-imperialist narrative about "empire" and such. I suspect he got it from reading Jerry Pournelle's* work (lolneofascistcrank).

Don't ask how an Alaskan got into this shit. I've been trying very hard to prevent him from being drawn into more far-right shit, but I'm Canadian and therefore its hard to be taken seriously when discussing American issues. :(

*The man went from being involved with SDI and USAF textbooks to working the furry convention circuit. Not joking.

[#FF0000]

I'm watching this video and it's preetty dumb. Does your friend realize that it is literally impossible to get American citizenship unless you 1) are rich 2) have certain skills 3) you have relatives in the country who are over 18.

Roy Beck's using unmarked charts, and making vague references to "immigration policy" and saying it has to be changed without exploring exactly what is wrong with immigration policy. He also makes a few really slanted comments like "the american people never agreed to this!", as if it should even matter what people think when it comes to someone else deciding to move and make a home somewhere.

If your friend buys this, ask him what exactly is wrong with the immigration policy today.

EDIT: Not to mention, the quota system in American immigration means that people from the poorest parts of the world aren't even allowed in. It's far, far easier to get into America as a western European than it is as someone coming from Latin America, or even Eastern Europe.

[Salyut]

If your friend buys this, ask him what exactly is wrong with the immigration policy today.

I'm asking him that as soon as he gets back.

[Apoi_Viitor]

Eminent Economists' Opinions

In a poll of eminent economists conducted by Stephen Moore
and me in the mid-1980s (see Simon 1989, Appendix C), with update
by Moore in 1990, we found agreement that immigration had (and
has now) a positive effect upon the economic condition of the
United States; Moore found comparable results in a 1989 poll,
too. Included in the surveys were 38 persons who had been
president of the American Economic Association, as well as those
who had been members of the President's Council of Economic
Advisers. In answer to the question, "On balance, what effect has
twentieth-century immigration had on the nation's economic
growth?", 81 percent answered "Very favorable" and 19 percent
answered "Slightly favorable." (See below.) None of these top
economists said that immigration was "slightly" or "very
unfavorable" or felt that he or she did not know enough to
answer. This extraordinary consensus belies the public picture of
the economic profession as being on both sides of all important
matters.

The top economists also are willing to extend their backward
assessment into a forward-looking policy judgment. When asked,
"What level of immigration would have the most favorable impact
on the U. S. standard of living?", 56 percent said "more," 33
percent said "same number," and none said "fewer." Only 11
percent said "don't know."

http://www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/pr-imopi.html

[#FF0000]

SHIT SON CATO INSTITUTE'S TURNING ON HIM.

A bleak day for Salyut's libertarian buddy indeed.

[Salyut]

This is gonna be good. :laugh:

[Salyut]

...I have no idea how I pulled it off but we ended up talking about Third World liberation and anti-imperialism. Now I'm trying to convince him to read the Zinn I sent him for his birthday.

Y'all are awesome. :cool: