how to fully understand fascism.

[danyboy27]

I already know what fascism is, but i really want to understand the whole concept in every detail.

For that purpose i purchased a book called the anatomy of fascism. i will receive it soon, but its supposed to be a verry clear study of how fascist regimes worked. their defining characteristics etc etc.

Recently, i discovered that book on Ebay:
Mussolini Political & Social Doctrine of Fascism (http://cgi.ebay.ca/Mussolini-Political-Social-Doctrine-Fascism-/390271654466?pt=US_Nonfiction_Book&hash=item5ade00da42)

Since its written by mussolini, would it be more revelant to explain me what fascism is than the first book?

ps: to the new guys, i am not a fascist or a fascist sympathiser, but i think its important to understand how it work in every little detail.

Its important to be aware of the threat we have face and to also be aware of the possible threat of the future has well.

[Rooster]

It's interesting how whenever the left fails to take initiative, fascism always rears it's ugly head.

[#FF0000]

It's interesting how whenever the left fails to take initiative, fascism always rears it's ugly head.

I think that's sort of backwards. Fascism really only ever comes around when the threat of a working class revolution is elevated. It'd be more correct that whenever the left does start to take initiative, fascism rears its head in response.

[red cat]

I think that's sort of backwards. Fascism really only ever comes around when the threat of a working class revolution is elevated. It'd be more correct that whenever the left does start to take initiative, fascism rears its head in response.

This.

[Rooster]

I think that's sort of backwards. Fascism really only ever comes around when the threat of a working class revolution is elevated. It'd be more correct that whenever the left does start to take initiative, fascism rears its head in response.

I don't think that's the case. Look at Europe today. The failure of the left to take advantage of the current economic crisis has resulted in the rise of many fascist elements. The decline of the old Eastern Bloc countries, the rise of Islamic fundamentalism (I'm bracing myself for a shit storm) and the general move to the right. You hear of a lot of old leftists or trade unionists move to the right, but you hardly ever hear it go the other way. I think just saying that fascism is a reaction to communism ignores the revolutionary aspects of it.

[danyboy27]

so, nobody here actually read mussolini book?

[Rooster]

Sorry danyboy, I was just mulling. I haven't really read any of Mussolini's work. But if you want to know about the everyday life and a history of Mussolini's Italy then look at the works of R. J. B. Bosworth. The work is kinda dry though.

[Tommy4ever]

I cannot recommend these two articles highly enough for someone wanting to understand fascism:

http://rationalrevolution.net/articles/understanding_fascism.htm

http://rationalrevolution.net/articles/rise_of_american_fascism.htm

There are several very high quality articles on that website. The above articles do not fall for the usual trap when examing faction as they do not instantly demonise it. Instead, as the website name might suggest, they take a very rational and almost scientific approach to its examination.

[danyboy27]

I cannot recommend these two articles highly enough for someone wanting to understand fascism:

http://rationalrevolution.net/articles/understanding_fascism.htm

http://rationalrevolution.net/articles/rise_of_american_fascism.htm

There are several very high quality articles on that website. The above articles do not fall for the usual trap when examing faction as they do not instantly demonise it. Instead, as the website name might suggest, they take a very rational and almost scientific approach to its examination.

thanks but i hate reading book over the internet, i am more a book reader to be honest.

[#FF0000]

I don't think that's the case. Look at Europe today. The failure of the left to take advantage of the current economic crisis has resulted in the rise of many fascist elements. The decline of the old Eastern Bloc countries, the rise of Islamic fundamentalism (I'm bracing myself for a shit storm) and the general move to the right. You hear of a lot of old leftists or trade unionists move to the right, but you hardly ever hear it go the other way. I think just saying that fascism is a reaction to communism ignores the revolutionary aspects of it.

Well without a doubt fascism and "extreme" elements in general get a bit of a boost when the economy's in a bad way, but I don't think we have to worry about the BNP ever taking the majority without the pressure of a working class revolt forcing the bourgeoisie into throwing their lot in with the Fascists.

But who knows and we are digressing.

[Rooster]

Well without a doubt fascism and "extreme" elements in general get a bit of a boost when the economy's in a bad way, but I don't think we have to worry about the BNP ever taking the majority without the pressure of a working class revolt forcing the bourgeoisie into throwing their lot in with the Fascists.

But who knows and we are digressing.

Ok, I'll make a new thread.

[Dimentio]

I already know what fascism is, but i really want to understand the whole concept in every detail.

For that purpose i purchased a book called the anatomy of fascism. i will receive it soon, but its supposed to be a verry clear study of how fascist regimes worked. their defining characteristics etc etc.

Recently, i discovered that book on Ebay:
Mussolini Political & Social Doctrine of Fascism (http://cgi.ebay.ca/Mussolini-Political-Social-Doctrine-Fascism-/390271654466?pt=US_Nonfiction_Book&hash=item5ade00da42)

Since its written by mussolini, would it be more revelant to explain me what fascism is than the first book?

ps: to the new guys, i am not a fascist or a fascist sympathiser, but i think its important to understand how it work in every little detail.

Its important to be aware of the threat we have face and to also be aware of the possible threat of the future has well.

Mussolini had already been in power for several years before he formed the ideology of Fascism. The movement of Fascism preceded the ideology. It was a movement largely composed of unemployed rural people with no working class background who were motivated largely by Italian Nationalism and calls for social justice together with a deep religiously motivated hatred of socialism.

In 1922-1930, the Fascists were not really the proponents of a unified ideology, nor a political party, since it was composed of numerous local movements.

To understand early Fascism, an analogy would be:

Mussolini = Glenn Beck

The Blackshirts = Tea Party

Mussolini himself had been ejected from the Socialist Party and was an Atheist. His sole motivation was power, for the sake of power.

[Sasha]

I still need to read it but an anatomy of fascism is considerd to be essential scientific work fundamental to understanding fascism. While mussolinis book is considerd biased propaganda.
While it might be very usefully to study mein kampf to understand nazism no one would suggest its would be an primary source you can base scientific conclusions on. (other than that adolf wasn't a very gifted writer).

[Tommy4ever]

thanks but i hate reading book over the internet, i am more a book reader to be honest.

Those are really just essays.

It took me about 30-40 mins to read each one IIRC.

You won't get a better understanding of fascism elsewhere.

[danyboy27]

there was also a book called liberal facism, but it was more likely to be written by glenn beck so..

[Dimentio]

there was also a book called liberal facism, but it was more likely to be written by glenn beck so..

In the 1920's and 1930's, everyone were more or less racists, eugenicists and imperialists.

[Baseball]

Mussolini had already been in power for several years before he formed the ideology of Fascism. The movement of Fascism preceded the ideology. It was a movement largely composed of unemployed rural people with no working class background who were motivated largely by Italian Nationalism and calls for social justice together with a deep religiously motivated hatred of socialism.


Except for the tens of thousands of workers who left the Communists and flocked to Mussolini:rolleyes:

The march on Rome influenced Mao Tse-Tung, who repeated it in a march of a grander scope a decade later.:hammersickle:

[#FF0000]

Except for the tens of thousands of workers who left the Communists and flocked to Mussolini:rolleyes:


Yeah but so what? We're talking social science and politics here. Not everything is 100% and set in stone. Fascists always, from Mussolini, to Hitler and the Spanish Falange, had a much smaller following among the working class.


The march on Rome influenced Mao Tse-Tung, who repeated it in a march of a grander scope a decade later.:hammersickle:Uh, what are you referring to? The Long March?

[Baseball]

Yeah but so what? We're talking social science and politics here. Not everything is 100% and set in stone.

In 1921 the Italian Communists were on the verge on winning Italy. Two years later they evaporated. Why couldn't they stop Mussolini? Because as the communists admitted, their base went over to him. There was a member of the Communist Internationale who considered Mussolin Lenin's true heir.

True, not everything is 100% and cast in stone. But if one wishes to understand fascism, one cannot explain the obvious revolutionary and strong support it received from workers a a result of some sort of conspiracy.

Why does the BNP suck the wind out of the Labor Party? Because the workers are becoming more conservative? Because the ruling classes are getting worried? Or maybe because what the BNP stands is not terribly different than what Labor has stood for, and Labor has failed to execute?

[#FF0000]

In 1921 the Italian Communists were on the verge on winning Italy. Two years later they evaporated. Why couldn't they stop Mussolini? Because as the communists admitted, their base went over to him.

Source


There was a member of the Communist Internationale who considered Mussolin Lenin's true heir.Oh cool one guy. I know a guy in the Libertarian party who just can't stand Jews. I guess Libertarians hate Jews.


True, not everything is 100% and cast in stone. But if one wishes to understand fascism, one cannot explain the obvious revolutionary and strong support it received from workers a a result of some sort of conspiracy.Fascists did not typically have broad working class support. It's really simple as. But I mean, even if they did, who cares? It's not as if people of the working class are born to vote Socialist anyway and none of us here think this.

And what are you talking about with this conspiracy shit? Where'd you get that from?


Why does the BNP suck the wind out of the Labor Party? Because the workers are becoming more conservative? Because the ruling classes are getting worried? Or maybe because what the BNP stands is not terribly different than what Labor has stood for, and Labor has failed to execute?The Labour party are social democrats, though, and not Marxists. Also you're gonna need to cite a source or something that says BNP are getting voters who used to vote Labour as opposed to Conservative. I could just as easily say they're drawing votes from the Conservatives for their anti-immigration stance.

Also, what does the BNP have in common with Labour as far as economic policy?

BUT WAIT!

Why do the Conservatives and LibDems suck the wind out of the Labor Party? Because the workers are becoming more conservative or Liberal? Because the ruling classes are getting worried? Or maybe because what the Conservatives and LibDems stands is not terribly different than what Labor has stood for, and Labor has failed to execute?

Are you seeing the problem with your reasoning now? :mellow:

[Dean]

You've both made the leap from a system of change in conditions to changes in voting blocs. But the party policies actually rest on the industrial interests which back them.

[Tommy4ever]

The Labour party are social democrats, though, and not Marxists. Also you're gonna need to cite a source or something that says BNP are getting voters who used to vote Labour as opposed to Conservative. I could just as easily say they're drawing votes from the Conservatives for their anti-immigration stance.

Also, what does the BNP have in common with Labour as far as economic policy?


Although most of his post wasn't the most accurate this bit was true. The BNP get votes almost exclusively in the poorest working class areas, usually ones with high immigrant populations and high unemployment, that traditionally voted solidly Labour.

This isn't because working class voters are becoming more conservative, its largely due to a sense of alienation from the Labour Party. Remember that these people used to be the core vote of Labour, this isn't just a contraction from some middle class district that now votes Lib Dem.

[The Idler]

To the OP, Fascism by Roger Griffin is a good study.

[ComradeMan]

I already know what fascism is, but i really want to understand the whole concept in every detail.

For that purpose i purchased a book called the anatomy of fascism. i will receive it soon, but its supposed to be a verry clear study of how fascist regimes worked. their defining characteristics etc etc.

Recently, i discovered that book on Ebay:
Mussolini Political & Social Doctrine of Fascism (http://cgi.ebay.ca/Mussolini-Political-Social-Doctrine-Fascism-/390271654466?pt=US_Nonfiction_Book&hash=item5ade00da42)

Since its written by mussolini, would it be more revelant to explain me what fascism is than the first book?

ps: to the new guys, i am not a fascist or a fascist sympathiser, but i think its important to understand how it work in every little detail.

Its important to be aware of the threat we have face and to also be aware of the possible threat of the future has well.

I've been reading a book "Come nasce un dittatore. Le cause del trionfo di Mussolini "- by Donald Sassoon (2010)- Rizzoli, ISBN: 17043069

It's quite good.

I also found this bibliography/these resources for you, I don't know if you can understand Italian though:-

The Birth of Fascist Ideology, From Cultural Rebellion to Political Revolution, Zeev Sternhell, with Mario Sznajder and Maia Asheri, trans. by David Maisel, Princeton University Press, NJ, 1994.
Mussolini, Renzo De Felice, Torino: Einaudi, 1995.
"Giovanni Hus, il Veridico" Rome (1913). Published in America as John Hus (New York: Albert and Charles Boni, 1929). Republished by the Italian Book Co., NY (1939) as John Hus, the Veracious.
"The Cardinal's Mistress" (trans. Hiram Motherwell, New York: Albert and Charles Boni, 1928)
"The Doctrine of Fascism" by Benito Mussolini that appeared in the 1932 edition of the Enciclopedia Italiana atDoctrine of Fascism.
"La Mia Vita", Mussolini's autobiography

Online with Google Libri/Books
http://www.google.com/search?tbs=bks%3A1&tbo=1&hl=it&q=mussolini

Modern History Sourcebook: Benito Mussolini: What is Fascism, 1932
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/mussolini-fascism.html

THE DOCTRINE OF FASCISM BENITO MUSSOLINI (1932)
(ONLY COMPLETE OFFICIAL TEXT ON THE INTERNET)
http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/Germany/mussolini.htm

[Baseball]

The BNP get votes almost exclusively in the poorest working class areas, usually ones with high immigrant populations and high unemployment, that traditionally voted solidly Labour.

This tends to be true in Germany, France as well.


This isn't because working class voters are becoming more conservative, its largely due to a sense of alienation from the Labour Party.

Which means that Labor Party is straying from its long held values. Which has certainly been true over the past 20 yrs.