Shanghai

[Bandito]

Shanghai in 1990

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs1396.snc4/164868_10150390206265437_628360436_16908886_653198 5_n.jpg

And in 2011.

I prefer the old look, it's funny how most of the big cities in capitalist countries tend to become New York.

[Red Commissar]

Wow. I can't even see a trace of the old city.

[Tablo]

I agree, it looked a lot better before. Unfortunately the old city probably wouldn't be capable of housing the current population.

Modern skyscrapers are WAY overrated.

[Magón]

It's like a combination between New York (buildings etc.), Las Vegas (lights and signs), and a futuristic Shanghai (obviously what it is.)

[TC]

It doesn't look at all like NYC but much more like Hong Kong, or to a lesser extent, Singapore, or Dubai.

Its not really something that capitalism does, it was capitalist in 1990 too, its something that has more to do with when a city had its period of most rapid building expansion.

And for what its worth, I like it so much more. I love big cities with skyscrapers - I love NYC but I"d like it even better if it had more contemporary skyscrapers. I can't wait for the London Shard Tower to be finished, its going to improve the London skyline so much.

[Lobotomy]

And for what its worth, I like it so much more. I love big cities with skyscrapers - I love NYC but I"d like it even better if it had more contemporary skyscrapers. I can't wait for the London Shard Tower to be finished, its going to improve the London skyline so much.

I agree. I love big cities, except for the pollution and other debris perhaps.

[Salyut]

Thats some Neuromancer shit right there.

[Wanted Man]

Skyscrapers kick ass. I've lived in a couple of provincial cities where people will protest as soon as anyone builds a modern building that is taller than the medieval bell tower. That's kind of sad, isn't it? It's 2011, people!

[TC]

Skyscrapers kick ass. I've lived in a couple of provincial cities where people will protest as soon as anyone builds a modern building that is taller than the medieval bell tower. That's kind of sad, isn't it? It's 2011, people!

As I said above I love big cities and I love skyscrapers but I also think maintaining variety is important especially when people's tastes are various and people also value the opportunity to see and live in different places at different times - which doesn't mean that we should preserve all way of life or every little village but that we should ensure that people still have options.

[bailey_187]

Looks better in 2011.

I love big cities. I dont know why anyone would want to live anywhere else. I hope london gets more skyscrapers though. I love the view of the skyscrapers in the docklands from my mates block of flats in mile end.

[Pirate Utopian]

2011 version looks nice and flashy.

[Bandito]

I like when cities manage to reach large population and still remain in the same style.
What I don't like about modern big cities like NY, Dubai, Shanghai or something like that is the fact that they all look alike. Hell, a New Yorker can go visit Beijing and immediately find McDonalds, Starbucks and it would be like natural terrain, which, of course, the rest of China isn't. Then again, some European cities have managed to reach multimillion population and remain in the same style, and every new building that was built needs approval because nobody wants something that does not belong there. New York is another story. It is unique and should remain unique, with a very specific style in which all of NY (well, Manhattan at least) was built.

Take Prague for example.

http://www.wild-about-travel.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Prague.jpg

[TC]

honestly that photo of prague looks like it could be taken from any number of old continental European cities. That could be say, Utrecht or Copenhagen in terms of prevailing style.

[Rafiq]

New Shanghai looks a lot better.

Why though? Is that what Capitalism does? Make cities more advanced?

[scarletghoul]

Wow, that's beautiful.

If we can get China back we're sorted

[Political_Chucky]

New Shanghai looks a lot better.

Why though? Is that what Capitalism does? Make cities more advanced?

No, just where the bankers/CEOs/politicians work at.

[Rafiq]

Fair nuff.

[Fawkes]

I like both of them, at least aesthetically speaking. It does bare some resemblance to New York, but not all that much. Maybe it looks a bit like Times Square cause of the lit billboards (I <3 SH doesn't help either), and some of the buildings do look like they could be found in midtown Manhattan, but mid and lower Manhattan looks like this (all the other areas of NY look way different):
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/126/387606063_408c203f6c.jpg

[RedStarOverChina]

Half of all the douchebags I've ever met came from this shitty place---No offense to sunfarstar, he wasn't born there.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

Shanghai has the look and feeling of New York City, more so than any other world city I've been too. Chinese people often call Shanghai the "New York of China". There are the corporate high rises of the Pudong area but somehow Sh has avoided the sterile feeling of the "modern" areas of Beijing.I'm not sure if any of this is good or bad. The boom in Chinese coastal cities continues, with a breakneck pace of construction. Building codes are ignored or are non-existent and construction is shoddy. A recent fire destroyed an apartment complex built for retired teachers, killing 55 people. Last year a luxury apartment complex literally slid to the ground, killing one person.
China so far has been relatively immune to the Great Recession but this has been largely based on enormous real estate bubbles. When this burst within the next few years the "communist" regime ill face enormous problems. The coastal cities are living parasitic lifes off the 100s of millions of rural people in the interior.

[khad]

Half of all the douchebags I've ever met came from this shitty place---No offense to sunfarstar, he wasn't born there.
Them and many Hong Kongers have a superiority complex with regards to other Chinese and Asians, I've noticed. All while slavishly aping the trappings of American capitalist civilization.

"I <3 SH"

This is nearly as bad as Shanghai getting a charging bull sculpture for their stock exchange.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703757504575193640923568542.html

http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/MI-BC831_cbull__DV_20100419191125.jpg

[Widerstand]

It's idiotic to say that the changed city appearance isn't a result of capitalism. What we see here is capital's material manifestation in the form of real estates and property (secondary capital market). Do you think these old buildings were just tore down because someone thought they looked ugly or to house more people? Do you think all these new (and I imagine quite expensive buildings) are just there for the hell of it? No. It's profitable, and it's a relatively safe way to store (and increase) capital.


Skyscrapers kick ass. I've lived in a couple of provincial cities where people will protest as soon as anyone builds a modern building that is taller than the medieval bell tower. That's kind of sad, isn't it? It's 2011, people!

Yeah huh, I wonder WHY people would be so closeminded as to protest that their cheap, somewhat defunct old houses are replaced by modern, expensive skyscrapers! :rolleyes:

Oh wait! Could it be that usually rents rise wherever a city is modernized, refurbished, and old buildings are torn down for ever more prestigious steel-and-glass bulwarks?

I'm not aware of the exact situation in Shanghai, but it seems highly unlikely that no Gentrification has happened.

[Wanted Man]

Yeah huh, I wonder WHY people would be so closeminded as to protest that their cheap, somewhat defunct old houses are replaced by modern, expensive skyscrapers! :rolleyes:

Oh wait! Could it be that usually rents rise wherever a city is modernized, refurbished, and old buildings are torn down for ever more prestigious steel-and-glass bulwarks?

What houses?

[gorillafuck]

I at first read "I <3 SH" as "I <3 SHIT"

[Widerstand]

What houses?

The ones in which the people of Shanghai live, some of which you may and some of which you may not see in the pictures.

[Wanted Man]

The post that you were responding to was not about Shanghai.

[Widerstand]

The post that you were responding to was not about Shanghai.

Weren't you trying to make a point about disliking skyscrapers being "backwards" though (which could well be applied to Shanghai - or any city for that matter)?

[the last donut of the night]

fyi for all the people that love skyscrapers: yeah they're nice in small doses. they attract unwarranted noise, and anybody who has had to spend more than 3 hours in midtown manhattan can agree with me when i say i much rather prefer lower, iron cast buildings

[Wanted Man]

Weren't you trying to make a point about disliking skyscrapers being "backwards" though (which could well be applied to Shanghai - or any city for that matter)?

So? They don't have to be built on houses.

[Widerstand]

So? They don't have to be built on houses.

It's usually only a matter of time until the rest of the neighborhood changes too.

Anyway I'm not in a mood to go into long debates about gentrification processes, but my point was that there are very good reasons to oppose prestigious new buildings in neighborhoods full of old buildings.

[Wanted Man]

What neighbourhood? They don't have to be built in existing residence areas at all.

Anyway, I'm very glad that you could make your point, but I never argued for what you are opposing, so I guess you were just engaged in mental masturbation.

[Widerstand]

What neighbourhood? They don't have to be built in existing residence areas at all.

Where else would you build a skyscraper/"modern building"?



Anyway, I'm very glad that you could make your point, but I never argued for what you are opposing, so I guess you were just engaged in mental masturbation.

But wasn't this your post?


Skyscrapers kick ass. I've lived in a couple of provincial cities where people will protest as soon as anyone builds a modern building that is taller than the medieval bell tower. That's kind of sad, isn't it? It's 2011, people!

(emph added)

Indeed you didn't argue for what I am opposing, you opposed for what I would argue.

[TC]

:p they built skyscrapers in Soviet Moscow too. There is nothing inherently capitalistic about skyscrapers. Moreover residential towers allow for a greater population density, which is important when more people want to live in cities - saying that neighborhoods must be preserved is in part saying that others aren't allowed to move in - and housing stock shortages also drive prices up (in capitalism) or make waitlists for moves intolerably long (in socialism).

[Widerstand]

:p they built skyscrapers in Soviet Moscow too. There is nothing inherently capitalistic about skyscrapers. Moreover residential towers allow for a greater population density, which is important when more people want to live in cities - saying that neighborhoods must be preserved is in part saying that others aren't allowed to move in - and housing stock shortages also drive prices up (in capitalism) or make waitlists for moves intolerably long (in socialism).

I want to round myself up and throw me into a gulag over reading that post. That is to say, I can't even begin to say how chauvinist it comes across.

[coda]

you should see new york city in 1900, very much like shangai in 1900
http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5010&page=1

I'm born and raised in New York and have a love/hate with it. It has some intense architecture -- right now I am loving the red glass Tickets staircase in Times Square, oddly enough. What makes New York is it's narrow streets and small blocks.. that's how it's able to compact so many buildings.. it is ingeniously designed--- but as an avid backpacker and hiker I seek out these types of places: http://www.life.com/image/first/in-gallery/37082/wild-city-nycs-surprising-parks

Central Park, too, is surprising bereft of tons of people. Vancouver is a cool place as far as cities go...

[TC]

I want to round myself up and throw me into a gulag over reading that post. That is to say, I can't even begin to say how chauvinist it comes across.

How?

[Widerstand]

Let's see:


:p they built skyscrapers in Soviet Moscow too. There is nothing inherently capitalistic about skyscrapers.

No one claimed that.


Moreover residential towers allow for a greater population density, which is important when more people want to live in cities - saying that neighborhoods must be preserved is in part saying that others aren't allowed to move in - and housing stock shortages also drive prices up (in capitalism) or make waitlists for moves intolerably long (in socialism).

That's what I'd call chauvinist. Yes saying that neighborhoods must be preserved is saying that no one else may move in - because it's historically observable that new people moving in lead to old residents being moved out. We call that gentrification, and it usually goes along with "modernizing" a neighborhood, and no, usually the old residents can't afford to live in the new buildings.

But as I said, I'm not interested in debating gentrification here. You're interested in why I thought your post came of ass chauvinist, well, simply, because it was rather clearly written from the PoV from someone who has the money to live pretty much wherever they choose, or who at least has never been thrown out of their house so it could be modernized or replaced with luxury apartments. And of course, it completely writes off the possibility that skyscrapers could have anything other than cheap apartments (such as offices, etc.).

I'm not saying you are chauvinist, and I didn't mean to come off like that.

[Bandito]

Originally Posted by TC http://www.revleft.com/vb/revleft/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showthread.php?p=2004123#post2004123)
:p they built skyscrapers in Soviet Moscow too. There is nothing inherently capitalistic about skyscrapers.
Yep, and it looks pretty neat.

http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/587245/587245,1273175545,3/stock-photo-mgu-lomonosov-52508728.jpg