Bob Avakian is the most radical revolutionary on the planet!

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Did you know?

"BAsics, from the Talks and Writings of Bob Avakian—a book of quotations as well as several powerful short essays from Avakian—is set to be released in the spring of 2011. Your generous financial support is needed to ensure that this important book gets out into the world and into the hands of people being beaten down in this society and people who hate the injustices being inflicted around the world and wonder what if anything could be done to end them.


"Who is Bob Avakian? He is many things: The Chairman of the Revolutionary Communist Party; the most radical revolutionary on the planet; someone Cornel West has called “a long distance runner in the freedom struggle against imperialism, racism and capitalism”; a wide-ranging thinker and provocative commentator on art and science, religion and philosophy, doo-wop and basketball; a leader whose sense of humor is as sharp as his hatred for oppression is fierce. Most of all, Avakian is the person who has devoted decades to deeply studying the experience of earlier revolutionary societies and has developed a new vision of the kind of world that could be brought into being through revolution... and he is the leader of the movement for revolution in the U.S..." - http://rwor.org/a/223/basics_letter-en.html

[The Douche]

I'm sure they'll be calling me to ask for a donation soon.

Did anybody else here get a call for the last donation drive?

[Kassad]

I'm truly convinced that the only reason the Revolutionary Internationalist Movement became defunct is because the other organizations within it refused to accept Bob Avakian as their theoretical core. The Communist Party of Peru and the Unified Communist Party of Nepal (Maoist) have both publicly said that there's nothing special about Avakian and it was right around that time that the international stopped releasing public statements and its theoretical journal.

This is the next attempt at a project to spark increased support for the RCP, following utter failures such as the promotion of Avakian's Revolution Talk and their new "Constitution for the New Socialist Republic in North America." They continue to put their time and money into promoting nothing but Avakian, all the while their activity and membership flounders. Avakian isn't a Marx. He isn't a Lenin or a Mao. Hell, he's not any more theoretically sound and well-spoken than many of us on here. They need to get their shit in line before their organization collapses.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Hey, I thought 'the most radical revolutionary on the planet' was Abimael Guzmán (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abimael_Guzm%C3%A1n)?

After all, he is the 'Fourth Sword of Marxism (http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/1855,news-comment,news-politics,at-home-in-perus-nastiest-cell-block)', after Marx, Lenin and Mao

Or did I miss a meeting...? :confused:

[The Vegan Marxist]

Hey, I thought 'the most radical revolutionary on the planet' was Abimael Guzmán (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abimael_Guzm%C3%A1n)?

After all, he is the 'Fourth Sword of Marxism (http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/1855,news-comment,news-politics,at-home-in-perus-nastiest-cell-block)', after Marx, Lenin and Mao

Or did I miss a meeting...? :confused:

When in comparison with Avakian, Abimael Guzman beats him by a long shot. He actually led his people to revolutionary people's war against the Peruvian state. What has Avakian done? Spoke a little Marxist-text, then get paranoid, leading to him fleeing the US. lol

[Kassad]

When in comparison with Avakian, Abimael Guzman beats him by a long shot. He actually led his people to revolutionary people's war against the Peruvian state. What has Avakian done? Spoke a little Marxist-text, then get paranoid, leading to him fleeing the US. lol

However, I haven't seen Guzman repudiate the almost cult-like appreciation that rose around him as well. They claim their ideology as "principally Gonzalo Thought," which despite the fact that it is mostly in reference to his combat methods, is still a little extreme in my mind. We don't need new names. We need increased struggle. And trust me, you know I'm not the type to start criticizing the Communist Party of Peru like many of the anti-communists we come into contact with, but it also doesn't mean that they are a shining example of building a movement for socialist revolution. They've managed to alienate much of their initial support in the peasantry.

[Rakhmetov]

He's not an original thinker, just a disciple of Mao.

[graymouser]

When in comparison with Avakian, Abimael Guzman beats him by a long shot. He actually led his people to revolutionary people's war against the Peruvian state. What has Avakian done? Spoke a little Marxist-text, then get paranoid, leading to him fleeing the US. lol
None of this should be taken even vaguely as an endorsement, but Avakian had a lot of credibility among radicals in the '60s for working in solidarity with the Black Panther Party, and he was apparently a very capable organizer in the SDS / Revolutionary Youth Movement - II / Revolutionary Union days. He parlayed that into leading the Revolutionary Communist Party in the mid '70s, and things didn't start to get too weird until after his "exile" in the early '80s. Despite that the RCP managed to main coherent and somewhat relevant through the '80s and the '90s when a lot of New Communist Movement groups simply gave up or went underground. I'm not saying he's anything near what he claims to be, the dude's a Stalinist and all, but for the people who followed him there was a reason why they let him get as far along as he did. Then he started purging the faithful in '03-'06 until the RCP is now exclusively the people who bellyfeel Bob Avakian's unique contributions.

For revolutionaries today of course Avakian's just some guy who's turned his mediocre theoretical pronouncements into megalomania bordering on the cartoonish. But - and this is setting politics aside just to focus on "what has this guy done?" - nobody from the New Communist Movement can be said objectively to have done better than him. That's not all too impressive, but it's a little more than what you've laid out here.

[scarletghoul]

"The earth is quakin'/ Follow Bob Avakian/ The empire's shakin'/ Follow Bob Avakian!"

(apparently this is a real RCP chant)

[RedScare]

I wonder what the RCP will do when ol' Bob kicks the bucket...

[ed miliband]

He's not an original thinker, just a disciple of Mao.

A disciple of Mao? If Mao was still around he'd be kissing the ground that the Glorious Comrade Bob Avakian walks on.

[scarletghoul]

I wonder what the RCP will do when ol' Bob kicks the bucket...
Either someone decent like Carl Dix will take over and maybe set them straight, or they'll split into a load of tiny groups each claiming to follow the true Bob Avakian Thought.. maybe squander loads of money on a hideous memorial

[Os Cangaceiros]

When in comparison with Avakian, Abimael Guzman beats him by a long shot. He actually led his people to revolutionary people's war against the Peruvian state. What has Avakian done? Spoke a little Marxist-text, then get paranoid, leading to him fleeing the US. lol

Replace "revolutionary people's war" with "substitutionalist millenarian crusade", and you'd be closer to a true statement.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

Replace "revolutionary people's war" with "substitionalist millenarian crusade", and you'd be closer to a true statement.

If the RCP is carrying out a millenarian crusade, it's fucking weak.
Where are the executions? Where is the mob violence?
I'd at least expect some machetes . . .

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

He's talking about the Shinning Path.

[Prairie Fire]

This thread is a bit...gratuitous.

While myself, I don't have any reverence for Avakian, and I certainly don't place him in the same league as Marx,Engels,Lenin,Stalin or even Mao. I also have very serious criticisms of the tactics of the RCP-USA, most of which are adventurist at best, or objectively tail/aid US imperialism at worst.

That said, the obligatory perrenial "OMG, Avakian cult of persynality LOL" theme of this thread is not really concretely helping anything.

I mean, for the most part, you're preaching to the choir. Everyone who has posted so far on this thread is all in the neighbourhood of disagreement with Bob.

For the handful of RCP posters on Revleft ( Red dragon rider,Redwinter,etc), what are the sheer odds that you are going to convince them with 'debates' about whether or not Avakian is deserving of the esteem acredited to him?

Start from a point of politics.

There is a wealth of things to debate them on, and see what they can rationalize. I've been over a few on several occasions, but these are still my major points of contention:

- Aiding and Abetting the US imperialists, re: Iran, and taking an openly opportunist stand that compliments US imperialism in the region

- Going all out on Athiesm, trying to appeal to the apolitical new athiest demographic, and alienating and abandoning the American working class in the process

- Posing the problems of the United States as a problem of the Bush clique during the Bush years, and tailing the liberal dems with 'World can't Wait'

- Calling for "Revolution" incessently like a verbal tic, but doing nothing to build any tangible forms for said revolution (especially among the working class)

This list goes on, and I would write more if I had more time.

I think that these stances of the RCP should be the starting point for any (meaningful) debate that occurs on the organization.


NOTE: "Monkey Riding Dragon" (formerly Red dragon rider) has gone over to Maoism third-worldism, and Redwinter may or may not still be a cadre of the RCP.

[graymouser]

I wonder what the RCP will do when ol' Bob kicks the bucket...
Well, I guess it would be something like the News & Letters group after Raya Dunayevskaya... a sad lot trying to deify their late leader and push his or her "unique ideas" on everybody. In other words, sort of like the RCP is today only with no chance of Avakian saying something new and profound.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

@PF: It seemed to me that the cult of personality was taking on a whole new dimension when he was labeled the most radical revolutionary on the planet, and that this was deserving of scorn. I could be wrong.

[scarletghoul]

avakian threads are just a bit of fun tbh, you shouldnt take them so seriously pf

[graymouser]

@PF: It seemed to me that the cult of personality was taking on a whole new dimension when he was labeled the most radical revolutionary on the planet, and that this was deserving of scorn. I could be wrong.
To steal a bon mot, Bob Avakian is not to be tossed aside lightly. He should be hurled with great force. ;)

[Kassad]

All I have to say is that I want RedWinter to come back because I'm pretty sure he left the RCP. I want to see him repudiate all the bullshit he spewed at me about Avakian. He was ridiculous.

[Prairie Fire]

@PF: It seemed to me that the cult of personality was taking on a whole new dimension when he was labeled the most radical revolutionary on the planet, and that this was deserving of scorn. I could be wrong.


I think that this was only intended as hyperbole.

If not, there is still bigger fish to fry, re: RCP-USA.

I don't see how sneering at the RCP without criticisms of their line is useful at all to the theory and practice of those that are criticizing them. At least be political about things, because you're not even doing yourselves any favours otherwise.



avakian threads are just a bit of fun tbh, you shouldnt take them so seriously pf


You are absolutely correct. Silly me, always with the politics.

[Amphictyonis]

the RCP is now exclusively the people who bellyfeel Bob Avakian's unique contributions.


Doubleplusbad that small group of bellyfeelers are.

[Kassad]

I could go on all day about their political absurdity, which you did a great job of laying out in brief.

- They take an opportunistic line on issues like the Sino-Soviet Split, Cuba, Iran, modern China, Korea, Tiananmen, Tibet, the Soviet intervention in Afghanistan in 1979 and dozens of other things I could list.
- Their militant atheism is Islamophobic and has no real comprehension of how much of an impact religion has on the world today, including within the working class.
- They have explicitly stated that revolution does not need to be led by the working class. They have stopped doing labor union work because they think petty-bourgeois intellectualism will lead a revolution.
- They think workers care more about Bob Avakian than they do the actual struggles that affect them.

However, many of these anti-worker and anti-communist positions stem from their cult-like obsession with Avakian that has grown immensely since 2003. Their studies of Marx, Lenin and Mao have taken more than a backseat. They sit in the dustbin of the RCP's theoretical work. In fact, all of their new publications such as their Constitution and their Manifesto hardly even mention Marx and Lenin. I'd say the mention of Avakian is threefold the mention of any other revolutionary socialists put together. When you turn away from Marxism and Leninism, you eventually turn your back on the working class and making revolution as a whole. That's what the RCP has done.

[southernmissfan]

I'm not familiar with the RCP's version of "militant atheism" so maybe they were doing something wrong I don't know about. But what is wrong with militant atheism, if approached from a revolutionary left view (and not the Dawkins, Hitchens, etc. view)? Shouldn't we be fighting the ever growing fundamentalist right and trying to drive out reaction? As long as superstition dominates the consciousness of the working class I don't see much progress on the horizon.

[Reznov]

I'm sure they'll be calling me to ask for a donation soon.

Did anybody else here get a call for the last donation drive?

Haha, well said. This is real Revolutionary fighting.
:laugh:

[Kassad]

I'm not familiar with the RCP's version of "militant atheism" so maybe they were doing something wrong I don't know about. But what is wrong with militant atheism, if approached from a revolutionary left view (and not the Dawkins, Hitchens, etc. view)? Shouldn't we be fighting the ever growing fundamentalist right and trying to drive out reaction? As long as superstition dominates the consciousness of the working class I don't see much progress on the horizon.

There's nothing wrong with combating religious fantasies people have, but when you go to a rally demanding a free Palestine and an end to the suppression of the people there, shouting "Away with all gods!" and "God does not exist!" doesn't tend to recruit people to the socialist movement.

[southernmissfan]

There's nothing wrong with combating religious fantasies people have, but when you go to a rally demanding a free Palestine and an end to the suppression of the people there, shouting "Away with all gods!" and "God does not exist!" doesn't tend to recruit people to the socialist movement.

Ha fair point. Not sure who thought that would be a good idea. I was under the impression that a few years back they were pretty active against Christian fundamentalists and the far-right, which is worthwhile and much needed. But if that was the extent of their tactics then they were only alienating potential allies.

Not that I would expect good tactics out of such a bizarre group.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

I wonder what the RCP will do when ol' Bob kicks the bucket...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7P8mP5uuPw

[the last donut of the night]

An example of the RCP's utter failure to actually involve itself and organize in the working class is my summer experience with them. Last year, when I still lived near New York, I went to the Warped Tour (for you that aren't familiar with it, it's a festival of hardcore, punk, ska, and metal music that travels the country every summer) with a couple of buddies. Guess who I see there? An RCP booth among all the other merch, band, and magazine booths set up. Surrounding it were numerous little pictures of Bob Avakian littered on the ground. They kept on yelling about revolution, a new world, etc to a crowd of middle-class (some working class though) kids that were either too high or just having fun, and not really concerned about "revolutionary" politics. I mean, music festivals shouldn't be places to organize -- especially ones that don't really cater to working class people, like Warped -- for revolution. I wasn't there for politics, nobody was. It's just futile and a waste of time for any organization. But it seems this is the path the RCP is taking -- I've only seen them at these types of events, never in oppressed communities. Their constant jabbering of revolution and anti-theism just creeps people out -- and for good reason, since they keep on mentioning this bald guy nobody's ever really heard of. It's sad to see.

PS: I'm not sure why, but I gave them my e-mail. Two days later one of them was asking me to coffee (kinda creepy if you ask me). I told them I wasn't interested anymore, very nicely, and they still keep on e-mailing me. Jeeze.

[the last donut of the night]

also when i was younger i wanted to intern with them. imagine lol

[AmericanSocialist]

Whats so wrong with him though? I have read some of his stuff, I didnt like his piece on Tibet, but does he say things inaccurately?

thanks

[Kassad]

Whats so wrong with him though? I have read some of his stuff, I didnt like his piece on Tibet, but does he say things inaccurately?

thanks

It's not so much that he's "wrong." He's a revolutionary and he's advocating for socialist revolution, but how does he do this? The RCP has stopped doing labor union work because they stated that a socialist revolution does not need proletarian support. That's anti-Marxist. He's also just an opportunist on issues such as Cuba, Tibet and many other topics.

[renzo_novatore]

Who is Bob Avakian? He is many things: The Chairman of the Revolutionary Communist Party; the most radical revolutionary on the planet

lol :laugh: ffs - that guy? Bob Avakian? The most radical revolutionary on the planet? Oh you crack me up!

[Thirsty Crow]

He's also just an opportunist on issues such as Cuba, Tibet and many other topics.
What does this exactly mean?

[Wanted Man]

I mean, music festivals shouldn't be places to organize -- especially ones that don't really cater to working class people, like Warped -- for revolution. I wasn't there for politics, nobody was. It's just futile and a waste of time for any organization.

It's not completely useless. When you actually have something in common with the people there and can speak to them on their own level, it can work. But this is obviously not the case with the RCP in any way. No matter where they put up a stall, they won't have much success because they're not implanted in the people that they keep going on about.

[Queercommie Girl]

Wasn't Bob Avakian highly homophobic too?

[Tablo]

Wasn't Bob Avakian highly homophobic too?
They changed their official party line on homophobia a few years back, but Avakian might be.

[Queercommie Girl]

They changed their official party line on homophobia a few years back, but Avakian might be.

That's one reason why I'm not going to be a RCP or Avakian supporter.

[Kassad]

What does this exactly mean?

They think countries like Cuba, the DPRK and China are "state capitalist," which is unscientific. They think China magically became a capitalist country the day Mao died. They align with imperialism on issues like Iran. They're just a generally opportunistic organization.

[Obs]

state capitalist
Some Maoists.

[Wanted Man]

Calling him the most radical revolutionary on the planet is pretty funny in itself, though. Hasn't anybody caught onto this yet, or was this the entire point of the OP?

[The Idler]

I've watched his videos but I'd like to see him debate or do an interview with mainstream media. Anyone know if he has ever done this in the last ten or even twenty years? I have my doubts as to whether his speaking abilities work at anything other than a rally of the party faithful.

[Amphictyonis]

Hail to the king
SAqq11HYMsk

[Prairie Fire]

Yet again, Chit chat has out-grown it's subforum, and is expanding into the rest of the board.

[Lucretia]

Bob Avakian inherited this title from the late Jim Jones of Jonestown, Guyana.

[chegitz guevara]

You are absolutely correct. Silly me, always with the politics.

Sometimes, the line of an organization is not the significant aspect of their existence. Let us suppose that there was a group of communists who also went around murdering people for kicks. Not only would a discussion of their line be completely superfluous, but by treating them as a serious part of the movement, you'd be doing the whole movement a disservice.

The RCP has not become a joke because it has a bad political line. It's line is irrelevant these days. What is significant about the RCP is that it is a complete and utter cult. It scares people away from socialist politics, not because it has an incorrect line, but because it is a cult. The members of said cult are impervious to reasoned argument, just like members of any other cult. Even if you point out internal inconsistencies in their logic, they will simply assume that the problem isn't with their belief system, but with themselves for not understanding it enough to be able to win an argument with them.

The only thing you should do is point out, as widely as possible, that the organization is a cult, and not part of the communist movement. The same should be done with the Socialist Equality Party.

[iwwforever]

Don't we all want to abolish the capitalist system? No one person has all the answers. I am thankful for all of Comrade Avakian's efforts. At least the RCP is trying. We must focus on the big picture, every group that moves things forward for the cause is valuable and should not be ridiculed. We could take a lesson from the religious people, all the different sects stick together when it comes to getting what they want politically.

[Kassad]

Don't we all want to abolish the capitalist system? No one person has all the answers. I am thankful for all of Comrade Avakian's efforts. At least the RCP is trying. We must focus on the big picture, every group that moves things forward for the cause is valuable and should not be ridiculed. We could take a lesson from the religious people, all the different sects stick together when it comes to getting what they want politically.

A lot of communist groups "try." The RCP has been trying since the 60's. They have failed to even become a sizable organization. Their membership numbers are dwindling, they are losing supporters and they are becoming a joke on the left. People at the US Social Forum last year were literally laughing at them for their absurdity. I, for one, am not going to unite with an organization that hardly ever endorses united front actions because other organizations don't uphold Chairman Bob. The RCP is a dying breed and it's a shame you've found some kind of illusions in it.

[Tablo]

Yet again, Chit chat has out-grown it's subforum, and is expanding into the rest of the board.
Yeah, it's kind of becoming a problem.

[kasama-rl]

how do we present our cause and our organizations to the people?

Do we say (in messianic style) that we have the great, special man who can lead you to freedom?

Or do we say that we have a movement that can train people to carry out their own self-emancipation?

Revolutions need leaders, and they rely on the self-action of the oppressed.... but these two narratives are very different.

II think we should present the revolutionary movement as the organized self-emancipation of the people, and we should present our leaders as servants of the people.

This is in sharp contrast to the strange and cultish view of the great man making revolution and people acting as his instruments and followers in that process.

That second cultish narrative won't work for many reasons: a) it doesn't correspond to how revolution actually happens, b) it doesn't correspond to the culture and outlook of radical people (who find it creepy), c) it leads the cultists to make arguments against equality (when in fact our movement needs to make equality part of its banners and attractive points.)

[Wanted Man]

Don't we all want to abolish the capitalist system? No one person has all the answers. I am thankful for all of Comrade Avakian's efforts. At least the RCP is trying. We must focus on the big picture, every group that moves things forward for the cause is valuable and should not be ridiculed. We could take a lesson from the religious people, all the different sects stick together when it comes to getting what they want politically.

Yeah, but homeopaths and acupuncturists also try to cure diseases, and Char Margolis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Char_Margolis) is also doing her best to put us in touch with our deceased loved ones. Should we be thankful to them too?

Besides the moral panic about "Chit Chat spreading to the rest of the forum" (is it some kind of living creature?), I don't see why people insist on seriously analysing and debating the RCP, Maoist-Third-Worldists, Spartacists, etc. Why would you want to grant them legitimacy by accepting their premises and debating them as equals, disagreeing only with their conclusions? The best way of dealing with the RCPs of this world is to recognise a lack of common ground (besides general good intentions) and reject all their theses by thorough Marxist analysis.

The bold part above is an even more apt comparison than alternative medicine, because the clergy is involved in one of the greatest projects of mass deception known to the world, and it's called organised religion. That an RCP member would take this as an example is no surprise, despite the supposed militant anti-theism of the RCP.

It's also a lie that the religious sects of the world "stick together", as even the shortest skimming of Wikipedia articles on history would show.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Calling him the most radical revolutionary on the planet is pretty funny in itself, though. Hasn't anybody caught onto this yet, or was this the entire point of the OP?

Yea, that's the part that drew my attention to it. Hence why I posted it.

[Wanted Man]

I for one think that Bob is totally rad and gnarly.

[Kassad]

I for one think that Bob is totally rad and gnarly.

I honestly forget what I did with my Bob Avakian t-shirt. I might've drunkenly lost it.

[Prairie Fire]

Chegitz Guevera:



Sometimes, the line of an organization is not the significant aspect of their existence. Let us suppose that there was a group of communists who also went around murdering people for kicks.


This is a false dichotomy. You are comparing an organization with questionable politics and organizational modes to a homicidal gang of serial killers, as though the analogy is even remotely fitting.

And, even in the case of an irrational group of people who ran around killing people just for the fun of it (I highly doubt such a group would attempt to put forward a coherent program, and present themselves as anything other than thrill-killers), they could still be criticized on the basis of line: Hedonistic, bourgeois-nihilists, etc.

Their actions would still have political implications, in addition to the implications to the safety of the general public.



but by treating them as a serious part of the movement, you'd be doing the whole movement a disservice


The overwhelming majority of organizations and individuals that I deal with in a political manner are an open blemish on 'the movement'.

Even 'the movement' itself is not characterized by political maturity or the most tactful of politics.

What does the RCP do that is so brazenly defamatory of 'the movement', that the myriad of others within it are not also guilty of?

Black bloc antics, Trots (ranging from social-dem entryists, to Sparts who actively protest against other left/activist groups,), garden variety hippies who show up with drums and guitars at events, college kids trying to make their protest signs snarky and clever (and jettisoning all politics in the process), the raging grannies showing up and singing (out of tune) songs that they've changed the lyrics to, weird Al Yankovic style...

"the movement" is not necessarily an untarnished pillar of respectability in contrast to the RCP, you know.

Qualitatively, how much worse is their un-relenting promotion of Avakian when counter-posed to some Trot group distributing rags, where the front page story is talking about "degenerated workers states" (true story)?

How impotent and irresponsible are their Avakian T-shirts, in contrast to Anarcho-syndicalists showing up at (insert event) and shouting "smash the state!", "Call a general strike!", "build peoples militias!" (also, a true story)?

In light of this, I have yet to see the RCP as less deserving of the cordiality and sober analysis that I accord to the rest of the infantile silliness that characterizes 'the movement' (in the absence of a working class political party).



The RCP has not become a joke because it has a bad political line. It's line is irrelevant these days. What is significant about the RCP is that it is a complete and utter cult.



This is liberal bullshit.

First of all, why do you continue to take the position that the RCP's mode of organization is divorced from their political content?

If they are, as you say, a "cult", then why do you feel that this is somehow independent and above their politics, rather than as a direct result of them?

Political line and political organization generally go hand in hand.

Secondly, their line is relevant, in so far as they are organizing certain amounts of people into various initiatives, and these initiatives are in the broader service of global imperialism.

Any service that the Avakianites can do to the United States in regards to ambitions towards Iran, or any disservice that they can do in alienating the American working class with unwarranted and apolitical excessive promotion of atheism... these things have much broader implications than the negative PR that they may be giving to the cause of American socialism, or the harm that they may be doing to the lives of their individual membership ( I have yet to hear any anecdotes of physical or sexual abuse/harassment within the RCP-USA).



It scares people away from socialist politics, not because it has an incorrect line, but because it is a cult.


Would you rather a cuddly, feel-good organization that drew masses of people into their work, but had the same politics that the RCP does now?

And as for "scaring people away from socialist politics", not only is there blame to go around on this accusation within the broader movement ( why are there so few threads on the CP-USA? Presumably, because it's organizational structure isn't 'cultish'?), but also it is interesting that you think that the proletariat is so thin-skinned that a few people acting strangely with Avakian shirts/books/chants would be enough to permanently dissuade them from socialism. The un-ending parade of heinous bourgeois shenanigans has never been enough to truly dissuade the people from bourgeois politics.




The members of said cult are impervious to reasoned argument, just like members of any other cult. Even if you point out internal inconsistencies in their logic, they will simply assume that the problem isn't with their belief system, but with themselves for not understanding it enough to be able to win an argument with them.


Again, I'd like to say that this is an abnormal feature found only within the RCP and other "kooks" on the fringes of our movement, but you and I both know that this is not the case.


Wanted Man:



Besides the moral panic about "Chit Chat spreading to the rest of the forum" (is it some kind of living creature?),


There is nothing "moral" about it.

Take my words as sanctimonious if you want to, but I think that concern over the plummeting level of discourse, and the apolitical, apathetic 4chan bullshit that is slowly characterizing the 'politics' of revleft, is quite valid.




I don't see why people insist on seriously analysing and debating the RCP, Maoist-Third-Worldists, Spartacists, etc. Why would you want to grant them legitimacy by accepting their premises and debating them as equals, disagreeing only with their conclusions?


Where do I draw the line? If I shunned all of those with ridiculous notions and immature politics instead of dealing with them cordially, I would have to sever relations with 90-95% of the broad left movement.



The best way of dealing with the RCPs of this world is to recognise a lack of common ground (besides general good intentions) and reject all their theses by thorough Marxist analysis.


This isn't what I've been doing?

[Ms. Max]

Gotta tell ya, I'm looking forward to BAsics. To hear someone just tellin' it like it is.

The shallow fist-shaking anti-Avakian stuff in these threads always makes me chuckle, it's like the Monarch trying to hench Doctor Venture.

[ZeroNowhere]

Don't we all want to abolish the capitalist system?
Not as radically as Bob Avakian.

[ChrisK]

Gotta tell ya, I'm looking forward to BAsics. To hear someone just tellin' it like it is.

The shallow fist-shaking anti-Avakian stuff in these threads always makes me chuckle, it's like the Monarch trying to hench Doctor Venture.

And Avakian tries to invent like Dr. Venture.

[Ms. Max]

Meantime, the actual event was last Monday, up in Harlem NYC. It was a good time. Here's from the program:


An evening of music, visual art, poetry and readings including musician Guillermo Brown; singer Maggie Brown; Richard Brown, former member Black Panther Party and co-founder of The Committee for the Defense of Human Rights, founded by the SF8; Ruby Dee; poet and playwright reg e. gaines; Moist Paula Henderson, baritone sax player and composer; Justin Long-Moton, spoken word artist; Maluca; jazz musician David Murray; Outernational; Abiodun Oyewole from The Last Poets; Ted Rall, cartoonist and author; Rebel Diaz; excerpts from Tapsploitation; and jazz musicians Matthew Shipp and William Parker. Readings of letters from prisoners and others by Aladdin, Bridgit Antoinette Evans, Raul Castillo, Brian Dykstra and Nitya Vidyasagar. Directed by Leah Bonvissuto.
A visual arts exhibition specially curated for the night will include the work of Derrick Adams, Wafaa Bilal, Emory Douglas, Richard Duardo, Skylar Fein, Kyle Goen, The Guerilla Girls Broadband, Steve Lambert, Wangechi Mutu, Dread Scott, SenOne, and Hank Willis Thomas.
The April 11 Host Committee, in association with Revolution Books, includes Aladdin, actor and playwright; Rafael Agustin, writer and actor; Rafael Angulo, Professor of Social Work, University of Southern California*; Paul Von Blum, Senior Lecturer Emeritus, African American Studies and Communication Studies, UCLA *, Herb Boyd, journalist and author; Elaine Brower, National Steering Committee of World Can't Wait* and anti-war military mom; Dr. Robert Keith Collins, anthropologist; The Committee For the Defense of Human Rights, founded by the SF8; Carl Dix, founding member of the Revolutionary Communist Party; Jessica Green, media maker and co-director, Maysles Cinema*; Nicholas Heyward, Sr., father of Nicholas Heyward, Jr. (murdered by the NYPD in 1994); Russ Jennings, theatre producer and writer; Erin Aubry Kaplan, journalist and author; Rev. Earl Kooperkamp, St. Mary's Church*, Harlem; Mike Ladd, poet and music producer; Harry Lennix, actor; Philip Maysles, visual artist, co-director, Maysles Cinema*; John Santos, musician; Matthew Shipp, musician; Dr. Tolbert Small, co-founder and physician at the Harriet Tubman Medical Office in East Oakland, CA and former physician to the founding chapter of the Black Panther Party; Clarence Taylor, professor of History, Baruch College*; Cornel West, Professor of Religion, Princeton University*; Robert M. Young, film maker and David Zeiger, film maker.

Ruby Dee didn't show however, but did send a message instead. She must be 95 years old.

[Ms. Max]

And Avakian tries to invent like Dr. Venture.
Not really, but it would still be cool if he had a walking eyeball.

[Thirsty Crow]

Not really, but it would still be cool if he had a walking eyeball.
Maybe then his entourage would proclaim his real ontological status: a demigod among mere mortals.

[RadioRaheem84]

Who is this guy Avakian?

What makes him so special that Marxists are acting like followers in a cult?

That doesn't look good.

[graymouser]

Who is this guy Avakian?

What makes him so special that Marxists are acting like followers in a cult?

That doesn't look good.
Bob Avakian was a white radical known for being close to the higher layers of the Black Panther Party in the Bay Area in the late '60s. When SDS exploded, Avakian emerged as the leading figure in the largely Maoist Revolutionary Youth Movement-II. During the early 1970s, Avakian parlayed this into the Revolutionary Union, one of the three main groups consolidating New Communist Movement. Like the other two, Nelson Peery's Communist League and Mike Klonsky's October League, he made the shift to a party formation in the mid-70s. The OL became the Communist Party (Marxist-Leninist); the CL became the Communist Labor Party; the RU became the Revolutionary Communist Party.

The RCP initially tried to build around industrial workers, but this didn't pan out for them, and their perspective became more oriented around the lumpen classes. Avakian very heavily supported the Gang of Four and the RCP considered the Deng government in China to be revisionist. In 1979, the RCP organized a demonstration against a state visit by Deng that basically amounted to a running street fight with the Washington DC cops. Following this, Avakian went into political exile in France; he has probably returned but is not living above ground.

Until recently, the RCP did a lot of front work; they were known in the antiwar movement for two fronts, Not In Our Name and World Can't Wait, that each had a bit of impact but subsequently fizzled. Now the RCP does nothing except build up Bob Avakian. His book Away With All Gods! got into major book stores as a sort of off-beat entry with the New Atheists like Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris and so on. The RCP pushes a DVD of talks he gave and other Avakian literature. They talk a lot about his "new synthesis" but his ideas are really a hectic mishmash of Maoism with buzzwords (he's very big on those) and pop politics.

[The Douche]

I have the DVD of his talks, I ain't mad it, he says some decent things, but often in a very long winded manner. Its important to note that he doesn't say anything that the particularly experienced members of this website wouldn't say. Anybody who has been in the communist movement for an extended period of time (especially as long as he has) will be able to do the kind of theorizing he does.

At the end of the talks people get to ask him questions, and the RCYB members have this sort of creepy vibe when they're talking to him. Like a little kid talking to their favorite sports star. Which wouldn't be weird if he were some cool, or historical, or important figure, but he's just, in my mind, another communist. (allbeit one with an inflated sense of self importance)

[Искра]

Song dedicated to Bob Avakian :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQkQixsY2i4

Capitalist society, capitalist pigs.
Painted faces under plastic wigs.
You own a fleet of expensive cars
Each one has its own well stocked bar

Stop eating donuts, start eating beans,
You look more like a communist if you're lean.
Put on a hard hat, preferrably red,
To keep the nightsticks from your head.

One red-blooded American was known to have said
The only good commie is one that's dead.
Is your favorite color red?

You don't want money.
You don't want fame.
You want everybody to be the same.
If your plan don't work I'm to blame,
'Cause I want money and I want fame.

Eat a yippie, I wanna be rich!
You can't call me a hypocrite!
I'm sick and tired of being poor!
I don't wanna be middle class anymore!

One red-blooded American was known to have said
The only good commie is one that's dead.
Is your favorite color red?

Before you pillage,
Rape, and rob...
Who the hell is this guy named Bob?

[Ms. Max]

I have the DVD of his talks, I ain't mad it, he says some decent things, but often in a very long winded manner. Its important to note that he doesn't say anything that the particularly experienced members of this website wouldn't say. Anybody who has been in the communist movement for an extended period of time (especially as long as he has) will be able to do the kind of theorizing he does.

At the end of the talks people get to ask him questions, and the RCYB members have this sort of creepy vibe when they're talking to him. Like a little kid talking to their favorite sports star. Which wouldn't be weird if he were some cool, or historical, or important figure, but he's just, in my mind, another communist. (allbeit one with an inflated sense of self importance)Since you actually listened to the DVD what you say has a lot of credibility with me and I respect you for that. But I came away with a different conclusion. For me, there are a lot of good thinkers who have various ideas and observations many similar to Avakian's. But I think Avakian is the one who has best pulled it all together into one sock, as far as what happened in the 20th century, and what the path forward is. As far as the "creepy" I see nothing more than like-minded folks finding someone who can articulate their strong feelings, and showing it. Crimminy, when some kid shoots a good basket and the other kids say good job, do you start getting all "creepy" feeling? I guess, for me, he is not just another communist. He IS my favorite "sports star". But that does NOT mean he's infallible, or perfect, or whatever. And it does NOT mean everyone else is a dumb ass or something. It DOES mean I think he is putting stuff together the right way and I want to encourage him to keep working hard at doing that!

[The Douche]

Since you actually listened to the DVD what you say has a lot of credibility with me and I respect you for that. But I came away with a different conclusion. For me, there are a lot of good thinkers who have various ideas and observations many similar to Avakian's. But I think Avakian is the one who has best pulled it all together into one sock, as far as what happened in the 20th century, and what the path forward is. As far as the "creepy" I see nothing more than like-minded folks finding someone who can articulate their strong feelings, and showing it. Crimminy, when some kid shoots a good basket and the other kids say good job, do you start getting all "creepy" feeling? I guess, for me, he is not just another communist. He IS my favorite "sports star". But that does NOT mean he's infallible, or perfect, or whatever. And it does NOT mean everyone else is a dumb ass or something. It DOES mean I think he is putting stuff together the right way and I want to encourage him to keep working hard at doing that!

Hey, if you think Avakian is all that and a bag of chips, then by all means, carry on. Like I said, I don't think there is anything particularly wrong about his analysis (though I think he has made some mistakes in regards to foreign revolutions), I just think the culture of appreciation rubs me the wrong way.

If Avakian really makes sense to you, and really motivates you to build for revolution, well, I don't see how anybody can say thats a bad thing.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

I posted something like this on another thread but it got lost.

Okay, I sometimes read the RCP paper, "Revolution". It seems to have improved in quality and some of the articles are quite interesting, but overall it seems oriented towards a petty bourgeois artsy crowd. I could be wrong but I don't remember seeing ongoing struggles such as Wisconsin, Smithfield,California nurses,Rebublic windows, or other issues being referenced.

Struggles in India and Nepal are not mentioned. The RCP regards the Nepal Maoists and the Naxalites as revisionists. Okay, why? Their explanation of these struggles and why they disagree w/their orientation would be welcome.

(Admittedly I could have missed something. That's my impression from reading the paper on and off)

Avakians' views on religion are reductionist and unMarxist. even Terry Eagleton's critique of "Ditchkins" is more interesting. The fear of "Christian fascism" during the Bush Administration was silly.

The proposed constitution of a "United Socialist Federation of North America" (or whatever its called) is also silly. What about studying an actual historic constitution, the Mexican Constitution of 1857? This came close to Marxism, it outlawed "wage slavery" and provided for the socialist industrialisation of Mexico. Tragically this was crushed by Porifiro Diaz and US rail road interests. This effort is more deserving of study than an imaginary "constitution".

The personality cult issue has to be faced. A "culture of appreciation of Bob Avakian" or the campaign to "make Bob Avakian a household name", what is this? Yes there were personality cults deliberately engineered around Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and others. The original rationale was educative, the population was regarded as culturally backward and it was thought necessary to create a god figure. This should be alien to the Marxist tradition. Much of the cults around Lenin and Stalin was derived from the macabre Russian Orthodox veneration of mummified saints. Its not Marxism.

The RCP got some traction from their World Can't Wait front group but they seem to have largely pulled the plug on that.

The RCP seems very much oriented towards a petty bourgeoisie boho crowd rather then the working class.

I don't know of any Marxists or activists who take Avakian the least bit seriously. Look him up on marxmail.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

The RCP got some traction from their World Can't Wait front group but they seem to have largely pulled the plug on that.
It's been a long while but I was involved with WCW when I was being young and naive.

[Luís Henrique]

Bob Avakian is the most radical revolutionary on the planet

Well, the second most radical revolutionary on the planet.

************************

It is just impossible to take such things in serious.

Luís Henrique

[Ms. Max]

Dumb question-how do you quote just part of one of the above postings when you want to address just that one part. I see people doing this but I can't find the right button. I can quote the whole thing but not just one sentence.

[Kassad]

Dumb question-how do you quote just part of one of the above postings when you want to address just that one part. I see people doing this but I can't find the right button. I can quote the whole thing but not just one sentence.

I would just quote the whole thing and then in the text box, delete the text in the brackets that you don't want to reference.

[Kassad]

I was utterly baffled to see the RCP at the Ohio Statehouse last weekend. It was a union-organized rally to oppose SB5 and I'd say the majority of people there were unionized workers. The RCP has long given up on the notion that a revolution has to be proletarian in nature. They attempt to appeal broadly to the surreal notion of "the people", which explains some of their appeasement to petty-bourgeois forces as of late.

[Pirate Utopian]

I can quote the whole thing but not just one sentence.

Just backspace out the parts you don't want to quote.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

Dumb question-how do you quote just part of one of the above postings when you want to address just that one part. I see people doing this but I can't find the right button. I can quote the whole thing but not just one sentence.

What you want to do is backspace and delete the parts you don't want to quote, as
Kassad said. The areas you do want to quote, make sure its between quote brackets, then you can have multiple quotes in between your own commentary. Don't worry, it sounds complicated at first but its like riding a bicycle, once you learn you won't forget.


, then backslash quote


[Quote]

Blah blah, blah...

[kasama-rl]

Meantime, the actual event was last Monday, up in Harlem NYC. It was a good time. Here's from the program: An evening of music, visual art, poetry and readings including..... [and so on]....
Ruby Dee didn't show however, but did send a message instead. She must be 95 years old.


Can you give more details about the event (beyond that it was a "good time")? Can you tell more about it? Like how many people attended? How long it lasted? The mix between RCP old timers (from around the country) and non-party people?

[Kassad]

Can you give more details about the event (beyond that it was a "good time")? Can you tell more about it? Like how many people attended? How long it lasted? The mix between RCP old timers (from around the country) and non-party people?

I obviously cannot answer any of these questions, but here is a slideshow of pictures from the event: http://revcom.us/avakian/BAsics/NY-Celebration-Slideshow.html

There's no pictures of the crowd, so I can't tell you how many people were there or anything about the age demographics.

[black magick hustla]

i am the most radical revolutionary in the galaxy

overthrow reptoid bonapartism

[The Douche]

i am the most radical revolutionary in the galaxy

overthrow reptoid bonapartism

Negate those who would negate our negations!

[Lenina Rosenweg]

Negate those who would negate our negations!

But that would only give you a negation of the negation.

(Rosa isn't here any more)

[The Douche]

But that would only give you a negation of the negation.

(Rosa isn't here any more)

I'm pretty sure thats how you make total destroy.