Question for vegans

[Fawkes]

I gotsa question for yall. I'm only curious if you're a vegan for moral/ethical reasons, not health. This isn't intended to be a debate which is why it's in chit chat, I'm just curious.

I have a bunch of chickens (at my parents's house, not NYC) and we let them roam around as they wish and we feed them and house them and all that fun stuff. We only have hens, so none of the eggs are fertilized. So on a daily basis they each pretty much plop out an egg and then just leave it. Would you eat those eggs?

(I don't care if you say no and I'm not gonna argue anything, I'm just interested in knowing)

[An archist]

I gotsa question for yall. I'm only curious if you're a vegan for moral/ethical reasons, not health. This isn't intended to be a debate which is why it's in chit chat, I'm just curious.

I have a bunch of chickens (at my parents's house, not NYC) and we let them roam around as they wish and we feed them and house them and all that fun stuff. We only have hens, so none of the eggs are fertilized. So on a daily basis they each pretty much plop out an egg and then just leave it. Would you eat those eggs?

(I don't care if you say no and I'm not gonna argue anything, I'm just interested in knowing)

A friend of mine's vegan and he eats the eggs from our chickens.

[Quail]

If I ever live somewhere with a garden, I want to keep chickens. I don't really see any ethical issue with doing that and eating their eggs, but I'm not a vegan.

[Fawkes]

If I ever live somewhere with a garden, I want to keep chickens.

Yeah, it's pretty awesome. Obviously you have to pay for food and shelter and stuff, but a chick only costs 30 to 50 cents here, it's crazy how cheap they are. And they're easy to take care of. Emotional attachment isn't the best route though, cause no matter what measures you take to protect them, they make dodo birds look evasive.

[Quail]

Emotional attachment isn't the best route though, cause no matter what measures you take to protect them, they make dodo birds look evasive.
I'll probably end up feeling sad a lot then :( One of my friends used to keep chickens and I don't think too many of them ended up getting killed.

[Fawkes]

I'll probably end up feeling sad a lot then :( One of my friends used to keep chickens and I don't think too many of them ended up getting killed.

Yeah, it depends on where you live. We see foxes all the time in my yard and hawks are everywhere. We also have bears, but we haven't had any problems with them.

[TC]

I gotsa question for yall. I'm only curious if you're a vegan for moral/ethical reasons, not health. This isn't intended to be a debate which is why it's in chit chat, I'm just curious.

I am a vegan for moral/ethical reasons; if I was only concerned with my health then I would be an ovo-vegetarian (since meat is genuinely very bad for you but egg whites are fine, in fact egg whites are quiet healthy in moderation).



I have a bunch of chickens (at my parents's house, not NYC) and we let them roam around as they wish and we feed them and house them and all that fun stuff. We only have hens, so none of the eggs are fertilized. So on a daily basis they each pretty much plop out an egg and then just leave it. Would you eat those eggs?

If they were treated and regarded as pets not egg laying machines, and they were never killed for their meat, or starved to manipulate egg production, or mistreated in any way, and they were given medical care, then yes, I'd definitely at the eggs as I would not see any way that it hurt the hens.

if you go on most vegan/vegetarian websites you will find at least a contingent who will say they wouldn't eat eggs in that scenario (that they're not food, that its theft from the hens even though the hens don't seem to care, that it necessary transforms the relationship into one of exploitation) but I don't buy that because I don't see any cognizable harm.

I think veganism is not about maintaining personal purity of having no animal products cross your lips or rest on your skin, its about not deliberating harming animals, and it seems to me obvious that this scenario passes that standard.

[the last donut of the night]

Yeah, it depends on where you live. We see foxes all the time in my yard and hawks are everywhere. We also have bears, but we haven't had any problems with them.

what borough of NYC do you live in that gets fucking bears

[Widerstand]

I was asked this question some time before when I still was vegan, and I said no. I'm not sure if I'd keep that up on moral reasons provided the measures TC mentioned were in place, but I have come to really dislike the taste of eggs (at least in their egg-form).

[Lobotomy]

I was vegan a few years ago, and during that period yeah I'd probably eat them. I was vegan because I opposed the way animals are treated in factory farms, not because I felt like it was inherently wrong to eat animals or animal products. I still do feel that way about how they are treated... just not as strongly I guess :blushing:

[TC]

I definitely think its inherently wrong to kill and eat animals (unless you're like a lion or shark who has no choice), not that its merely wrong in the factory farm context. There is a harm in depriving someone of their life beyond the harm in merely causing them physical suffering prior to that point.

But, i have yet to see anyone identify any inherent harm that exists in consuming or using waste products that were naturally excreted by an animal - which is what unfertilized chicken eggs are.

I have never had the opportunity to eat eggs from a household pet hen, so it is a moot point - I would say that I wouldn't if someone can identify a harm - but if its harmless then i don't see the point of it except to hold onto a definition of veganism (no animal products) that is merely a proxy for the rationale of veganism (no harm to thinking/feeling beings without justifiable excuse).

Edit: I want to add that I really appreciate that Fawkes is engaging with this topic in a respectful and open and non-obnoxious way given how other non-vegans have handled similar topics elsewhere, its refreshing. I understand how emotionally charged some meat eaters get about these things because they are indeed, extremely personal in their implications.

[Tablo]

Edit: I want to add that I really appreciate that Fawkes is engaging with this topic in a respectful and open and non-obnoxious way given how other non-vegans have handled similar topics elsewhere, its refreshing. I understand how emotionally charged some meat eaters get about these things because they are indeed, extremely personal in their implications.
Rawr! Meat is good!

Seriously though I'm glad you're consistent in your views by recognizing eating unfertilized eggs is harmless.

[Ele'ill]

How many of you avoid honey too? :)

[Widerstand]

How many of you avoid honey too? :)

Used to. Still do to an extent. Also gelatin, but that's srsly hard, shit is in so many sodas.

[KC]

(unless you're like a lion or shark who has no choice)

This statement implies a choice/no-choice paradigm which is false. It is not that they do not have the choice, it is that choice does not even factor into it.

:o

[TC]

Also gelatin, but that's srsly hard, shit is in so many sodas.

What? really? Why would they put something semi-solid in a liquid. I've never heard of that. Which sodas?

[TC]

How many of you avoid honey too? :)

Honey is a case where I think the logic also breaks down a bit because:

1. its not clear that insects are capable of suffering the way vertebrates and cephalopods do, given that they a. have no nociceptors and b. do not respond to injury by favoring their injured parts to avoid further injury or stopping their normal behavior, whereas vertebrates including fish do

2. its not clear to me that, if they're capable of suffering, honey production makes them suffer, because its possible to remove honey without harming the bees.

Many vegans will often argue that bees are potentially killed or injured when handing the hive components, but this is clearly accidental, unintended, and something to be minimized - it is an anticipated side consequence of honey production not a means of achieving the aim. This distinction is crucial because vegans tolerate the possibility that bugs will be killed while walking and driving, or that small animals could be killed in cultivation of crops - because we distinguish between deliberate killing as a means of achieving the desired aim (meat) and accidental killing which is excusable even with regards to humans provided reasonable precautions are taken.


3. there is no way to denounce honey while being consistent on the issue since vegetable production, even organic, involves killing tons of insects deliberately - more so than honey production.


4. Lots and lots and lots of vegetables and fruits that vegans and everyone else eats are actually pollinated by captive honey bees - in this much of the plant food we eat, not just honey, is actually a bee product. It makes little sense to say some bee products are okay and others are wrong. It remains possible to avoid any planets grown with bee pollination - so the impossibility excuse is not available - this would just significantly curtail our eating choices.


5. Honey bees are hardly captive, they're free to fly around and go about their normal bee activities. Even if they have a rich subjective mental life (which seems extremely unlikely) its not clear that this would be substantially adversely impacted by honey cultivation, the way that farm animals are.


6. Some vegans argue that honey cultivation is 'theft' and its exploitation since it uses the bees - but this strikes me as personifying them, in that, while non-human animals, at least vertibrates, clearly experience pain and thus have an interest in avoiding pain, it is implausible that they have a concept of property and theft. Property isn't just a human convention, its a human legal/social convention that only arises in some human societies.


7. The only reason that remains is so you can be a 'definitional vegan' by abstaining from eating all "animal products" (while continuing to eat plants produced with bees). This robs veganism of its philosophical integrity and reduces it to a dogmatic line. Sure, you can say that anyone who eats honey is not a vegan, not because honey is more harmful than the baseline necessity that vegans maintain, but because honey is an animal product and vegans don't eat animal products...but this type of logic makes veganism a position that is no longer morally compelling.

So I'd much rather concede that its acceptable to eat honey, than to conceptualize veganism in a way that makes it internally inconsistent and morally unpersuasive. The problem is not animal products as such but the harm that is typically inflicted to obtain them.

That said I would avoid honey for health reasons and social reasons (so I don't have to have this argument with certain people).

[Niccolò Rossi]

I am a vegan for moral/ethical reasons; if I was only concerned with my health then I would be an ovo-vegetarian (since meat is genuinely very bad for you but egg whites are fine, in fact egg whites are quiet healthy in moderation).

:lol:

I eat 40 whole eggs (white and yolk, god forbid!) a week.

Nic.

[Fawkes]

what borough of NYC do you live in that gets fucking bears


(at my parents's house, not NYC)



As far as honey goes, we have bees too, so I can weigh in on that from personal experience. For one thing, we are actually helping the bees by providing a stable environment for them to live in that is already built for them. As for honey extraction, it's a pretty simple process: wait til the middle of the day when a good portion of the bees will be out of the hive, wear a bee suit, smoke the area around the hive (not lethal, just calms the bees and blocks pheromones released by bees guarding the hive that would alert the rest), lift the top off, pull the frames out and brush off whatever bees are still clinging onto them. Not exactly The Jungle material.

[Widerstand]

What? really? Why would they put something semi-solid in a liquid. I've never heard of that. Which sodas?

From the coca-cola website, but I'm sure other companies do the same:


For the vast majority of our drinks, yes. None of the Coca-Cola and Schweppes brands contain milk, eggs or any products derived from mammals. However, vegans and vegetarians should note that a few of our drinks contain small traces of fish gelatine, which is used as a stabiliser for the beta-carotene colour. These products are Lilt, Lilt Zero, Relentless Inferno, Kia-Ora Orange Squash, Kia-Ora Orange Squash No Added Sugar and Schweppes Orange Squash.

http://www.coca-cola.co.uk/faq/ingredients/coca-cola-drinks-suitable-for-vegans-vegetarians.html

Basically, check the ingredients for beta carotene and you should be fine.

[TC]

I don't think I've even ever heard of any of those seven soda varieties...so I hardly think its either in soo many sodas or its hard to avoid ;)

Coke, Diet Coke, Pepsi, Seven Up, Coke Zero, Caffine Free Diet Coke, Sprite, etc, are all suitable for vegans/vegetarians, so...:p what else do you want (though, of course, the issue with coke isn't that they kill animals but that they kill people in Columbia so its reasonable to find it objectionable even without animal products).

[Aeval]

I wouldn't eat them if you just fried one up or something because eggs are pretty gross, but I'd eat a cake made with one. Having braces as a kid ruined eggs for me, they made me have this awful metallic taste, no idea why.

[KC]

Coke, Diet Coke, Pepsi, Seven Up, Coke Zero, Caffine Free Diet Coke, Sprite, etc, are all suitable for vegans/vegetarians, so...:p what else do you want (though, of course, the issue with coke isn't that they kill animals but that they kill people in Columbia so its reasonable to find it objectionable even without animal products).

Plus it's fucken nasty (tho McDonald's fountain Coke is an exception).

[Lyev]

We got some eggs from some hens that belong to one of mum's work friends, but one of these hens has a problem with weird shape egged - I think the eggs shell are not fully hardened when they come out there is an egg like this:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_c1HuA16Hpeg/SeM7bQs24NI/AAAAAAAAARY/JhmqHsx1b_0/s400/wrinkledegg.jpg

Vegans: would you eat this kind of egg? If not, why.

[Stand Your Ground]

I'm not vegan (yet) but I do eat some things with eggs in them occassionally but for the most part I try to avoid them.

[black magick hustla]

how does vegan semen taste

[TC]

how does vegan semen taste

Go vegan and find out.

[KC]

how does vegan semen taste

Like asparagus

[Fawkes]

how does vegan semen taste

like chicken

[Quail]

Go vegan and find out.
Wouldn't it make more sense to get with a vegan? Unless people eat their own semen.

[gorillafuck]

Unless people eat their own semen.
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSx3Q0HymyVZ2FsVQF4QzpV5GkKhMNjk KHGrY3rCVnhDjxCXEgh

Drink up.

[Quail]

...No thanks. I'd only eat semen if someone was getting something from it.

[KC]

Unless people eat their own semen.

http://www.cookingwithcum.com/images/natural_harvest_front_cover.jpg

[TC]

Wouldn't it make more sense to get with a vegan? Unless people eat their own semen.

I'm pretty 95% sure that maldoror is male, and chances are most likely that he is either

1. straight,

2. Bi with a female or non-vegan partner

3. Gay with a non-vegan partner

4. Gay but does not have unprotected sex with people he doesn't know well who have established that they are STI/STD free.

So in any of these four scenarios he would pretty much have to go vegan to find out.

Also and most importantly: he just go vegan anyways (which was the subtext of the comment).

For what its worth, the collective wisdom of the internet, which you can find by googling, suggests that meat and dairy products make semen taste bitter and salty, and that vegetarians and vegans taste better. Though presumably the question was asked to undermine the thread and not out of some sort of medical/sexual curiousity which could be obtained, again, from google.

[Quail]

http://www.cookingwithcum.com/images/natural_harvest_front_cover.jpg
Doesn't really look that appealing.


For what its worth, the collective wisdom of the internet, which you can find by googling, suggests that meat and dairy products make semen taste bitter and salty, and that vegetarians and vegans taste better. Though presumably the question was asked to undermine the thread and not out of some sort of medical/sexual curiousity which could be obtained, again, from google.
I think I've read that somewhere. I think tobacco and alcohol make it taste worse too. So, go vegan, get more head.

[Fawkes]

http://www.cookingwithcum.com/images/natural_harvest_front_cover.jpg

"Like fine wine and cheeses, the taste of semen is complex and dynamic. Semen is inexpensive to produce and is commonly available in many, if not most, homes and restaurants."

Inexpensive to produce? Um...

[Quail]

"Like fine wine and cheeses, the taste of semen is complex and dynamic. Semen is inexpensive to produce and is commonly available in many, if not most, homes and restaurants."

Inexpensive to produce? Um...
To make any substantial meal using semen, surely you'd have to spend the day wanking into a cup or something? Or get a group of your mates round and all do it together.

[EvilRedGuy]

Im sick of these vegan threads. Just eat meat and shutup.

[Stand Your Ground]

Im sick of these vegan threads. Just eat meat and shutup.
Or not. Do as you please and let others do the same.

[Bright Banana Beard]

I tasted my semen and it tasted mango and strawberry fruit. Yep, it is sweet.

[Widerstand]

"Like fine wine and cheeses, the taste of semen is complex and dynamic. Semen is inexpensive to produce and is commonly available in many, if not most, homes and restaurants."

Inexpensive to produce? Um...

I'd get thrown out of most restaurants if I tried to spice up my order with some homemade semen on the go :x

[gorillafuck]

"Like fine wine and cheeses, the taste of semen is complex and dynamic. Semen is inexpensive to produce and is commonly available in many, if not most, homes and restaurants."

Inexpensive to produce? Um...
If I ordered food with semen, would the restaurant get it out of a storage room or would an employee just squirt it freshly onto my food?

[black magick hustla]

I'm pretty 95% sure that maldoror is male, and chances are most likely that he is either

1. straight,

2. Bi with a female or non-vegan partner

3. Gay with a non-vegan partner

4. Gay but does not have unprotected sex with people he doesn't know well who have established that they are STI/STD free.

So in any of these four scenarios he would pretty much have to go vegan to find out.

Also and most importantly: he just go vegan anyways (which was the subtext of the comment).

For what its worth, the collective wisdom of the internet, which you can find by googling, suggests that meat and dairy products make semen taste bitter and salty, and that vegetarians and vegans taste better. Though presumably the question was asked to undermine the thread and not out of some sort of medical/sexual curiousity which could be obtained, again, from google.

fukkkkkkk does your name start with r by any chance you are 100 percent like my friend. she also reads boring gender theory too

[Stand Your Ground]

If I ordered food with semen, would the restaurant get it out of a storage room or would an employee just squirt it freshly onto my food?
Interesting thought.

[Angry Young Man]

I gotsa question for yall. I'm only curious if you're a vegan for moral/ethical reasons, not health. This isn't intended to be a debate which is why it's in chit chat, I'm just curious.

I have a bunch of chickens (at my parents's house, not NYC) and we let them roam around as they wish and we feed them and house them and all that fun stuff. We only have hens, so none of the eggs are fertilized. So on a daily basis they each pretty much plop out an egg and then just leave it. Would you eat those eggs?

(I don't care if you say no and I'm not gonna argue anything, I'm just interested in knowing)

No. No vegan diet, no vegan powers!