Robocommie
19th January 2011, 06:54
Facebook argument. Get a load of THIS SHIT. (Names changed to protect the anonymous)
In response to the labor theory of value and how wage labor is inherently exploitative:
Sarah: "Yup! Totally! You will earn that wage, and you will never make more unless you work your way to a blanket factory manager/supervisor position. BUT- You had the OPPORTUNITY to get an education, and go to college, and work your way up. You c...hose to be a blanket worker. America never guaranteed everyone would own a factory! Where does it say that in the constitution? You should do some research on people who start companies. Most of the time, their stories are amazing. They come from humble backgrounds and through innovation and hard work create massive companies. Take Standard Oil, Microsoft, etc.."
Me: "Sarah, you've got stars in your eyes. You insist that everyone has these opportunities you describe, but it's just not true. You insist people chose to be a blanket worker? Who the hell would choose to work hard their whole damn life instead of be rich? That's absurd, Sarah."
Sarah: "Because school is hard, math homework sucks, it is easier to party and just get a job and not go to high school. And then by the time you realize you wish you hadn't slacked off, it's too late. Happens all the time..."
Me: "Sarah, not everyone is from the suburbs, and not everyone fails because "math is hard and I want to party." That's ridiculous. There's less equality of opportunity than you assume. Every single day I encounter hard working people who want to better their lives with college but can't afford it and just can't find any way for it to work for them."
Sarah: "Who are you talking about?? Seriously! Do you not know anyone who works? ALL of my friends that are not in the Air Force have jobs. And NONE of them own huge companies. THey are not poor and abused because they do not own a factory. Where is your logic?"
And on the subject of the farm workers of the third world:
Me: "Tiffany, I live a very comfortable life because I was fortunate. But my family are very close friends to campesinos, peasants, who live in El Salvador. They work extremely hard every single day, and have almost nothing to show for it, while the landowner who owns the coffee fields they work in lives in a palace.
Is it pure green envy to be angry about the fact that their hard work picking coffee beans puts him in a palace, while they live in corrugated tin shacks, without running water, plumbing or electricity? That they can't even afford shoes?
Is it pure green envy to resent a system where one man makes so much money, he sometimes decides to simply not harvest the coffee because the price on the market is too low, and so the peasants don't even have that work to do?"
Sarah: "Hence, minimum wage."
Me: "Sarah, if those folks got paid minimum wage your coffee wouldn't be so cheap. You know how many labor movements have tried to improve the conditions for workers that got shut down by the folks on high because it wasn't profitable? Seriously, it's astonishing that you take this for granted. They hire leg-breakers to terrify union leaders into quitting, and if that doesn't work, they kill them. And if the workers try and fight back, well, they kill them too. They call them communists or radicals and send in the army to put them down. It's a very American story."
Tiffany: "But (Robocommie) atleast they have work. If they are that hard up with it then where would they be without it? And yes the landowner should get the majority of the profit. It's his land. His company. Etc. It's unfortunate but true. You can't take what is his, just because it's not "fair" that he owns the land and they don't."
Me: "That's pretty cold Tiffany, and I'd like to think if you saw how these folks live you wouldn't be so quick to say, "Eh, it's his land, he deserves it."
Tiffany: "It's not cold to say that what belongs to someone BELONGS to someone."
Sarah: "(Robocommie) have you ever been to these third world countries where workers are paid so little? I have. When I was in Guatemala I had a very interesting discussion with a man who lives in a mud hut and gives tours of mayan ruins for money. He l...aughed at stupid Americans who feel bad for them. He told me that they are thankful to have an income, and be able to have cable TV in their mudhuts and afford basic necessities because of their jobs. Without which, they would only sustain themselves on the food that they could grow themselves. It was EYE OPENING for me! Because I always felt the same way. Another eye opening thing- free range beef? Yeah, in Guatemala they are chopping down the rain forest to make room for free range cattle because we pay so much money for it."
Me: "Ugh, I give up. Nothing's written in the sky that says that people have a right to own land like that."
Tiffany: "(Robocommie) just a thought....... if you had a house, and the entire outside needed paint. And you decide you can't do it on your own so you hire a bunch of guys to come help you paint the outside of your house. When your done the value of your... house has now increased by $10,000. Are you saying you would give a portion of that investment to each guy you hired to paint your house?
It's no different with a farmer who owns land and hires people to help him run it."
...............
Guiz they convinced me Im becoming a Misean now, k thx
In response to the labor theory of value and how wage labor is inherently exploitative:
Sarah: "Yup! Totally! You will earn that wage, and you will never make more unless you work your way to a blanket factory manager/supervisor position. BUT- You had the OPPORTUNITY to get an education, and go to college, and work your way up. You c...hose to be a blanket worker. America never guaranteed everyone would own a factory! Where does it say that in the constitution? You should do some research on people who start companies. Most of the time, their stories are amazing. They come from humble backgrounds and through innovation and hard work create massive companies. Take Standard Oil, Microsoft, etc.."
Me: "Sarah, you've got stars in your eyes. You insist that everyone has these opportunities you describe, but it's just not true. You insist people chose to be a blanket worker? Who the hell would choose to work hard their whole damn life instead of be rich? That's absurd, Sarah."
Sarah: "Because school is hard, math homework sucks, it is easier to party and just get a job and not go to high school. And then by the time you realize you wish you hadn't slacked off, it's too late. Happens all the time..."
Me: "Sarah, not everyone is from the suburbs, and not everyone fails because "math is hard and I want to party." That's ridiculous. There's less equality of opportunity than you assume. Every single day I encounter hard working people who want to better their lives with college but can't afford it and just can't find any way for it to work for them."
Sarah: "Who are you talking about?? Seriously! Do you not know anyone who works? ALL of my friends that are not in the Air Force have jobs. And NONE of them own huge companies. THey are not poor and abused because they do not own a factory. Where is your logic?"
And on the subject of the farm workers of the third world:
Me: "Tiffany, I live a very comfortable life because I was fortunate. But my family are very close friends to campesinos, peasants, who live in El Salvador. They work extremely hard every single day, and have almost nothing to show for it, while the landowner who owns the coffee fields they work in lives in a palace.
Is it pure green envy to be angry about the fact that their hard work picking coffee beans puts him in a palace, while they live in corrugated tin shacks, without running water, plumbing or electricity? That they can't even afford shoes?
Is it pure green envy to resent a system where one man makes so much money, he sometimes decides to simply not harvest the coffee because the price on the market is too low, and so the peasants don't even have that work to do?"
Sarah: "Hence, minimum wage."
Me: "Sarah, if those folks got paid minimum wage your coffee wouldn't be so cheap. You know how many labor movements have tried to improve the conditions for workers that got shut down by the folks on high because it wasn't profitable? Seriously, it's astonishing that you take this for granted. They hire leg-breakers to terrify union leaders into quitting, and if that doesn't work, they kill them. And if the workers try and fight back, well, they kill them too. They call them communists or radicals and send in the army to put them down. It's a very American story."
Tiffany: "But (Robocommie) atleast they have work. If they are that hard up with it then where would they be without it? And yes the landowner should get the majority of the profit. It's his land. His company. Etc. It's unfortunate but true. You can't take what is his, just because it's not "fair" that he owns the land and they don't."
Me: "That's pretty cold Tiffany, and I'd like to think if you saw how these folks live you wouldn't be so quick to say, "Eh, it's his land, he deserves it."
Tiffany: "It's not cold to say that what belongs to someone BELONGS to someone."
Sarah: "(Robocommie) have you ever been to these third world countries where workers are paid so little? I have. When I was in Guatemala I had a very interesting discussion with a man who lives in a mud hut and gives tours of mayan ruins for money. He l...aughed at stupid Americans who feel bad for them. He told me that they are thankful to have an income, and be able to have cable TV in their mudhuts and afford basic necessities because of their jobs. Without which, they would only sustain themselves on the food that they could grow themselves. It was EYE OPENING for me! Because I always felt the same way. Another eye opening thing- free range beef? Yeah, in Guatemala they are chopping down the rain forest to make room for free range cattle because we pay so much money for it."
Me: "Ugh, I give up. Nothing's written in the sky that says that people have a right to own land like that."
Tiffany: "(Robocommie) just a thought....... if you had a house, and the entire outside needed paint. And you decide you can't do it on your own so you hire a bunch of guys to come help you paint the outside of your house. When your done the value of your... house has now increased by $10,000. Are you saying you would give a portion of that investment to each guy you hired to paint your house?
It's no different with a farmer who owns land and hires people to help him run it."
...............
Guiz they convinced me Im becoming a Misean now, k thx