Liberation Theology?

[M42-AEK]

I was curious about what other members on this forum thought about Christian Liberation Theology. Which was big in Latin America and parts of Africa. Church fathers who followed liberation theology, helped organize the low class and fight for rights and against oppression, they also felt you could not remain neutral in the face of injustice, and stood against the crimes of colonialism. Although they strongly supported non-violence

[ComradeMan]

"If Jesus were alive today, he'd be a guerillero".
Father Camilo Torres Restrepo

[graymouser]

Well, liberation theology was really a reaction to the mass radicalization in some corners of the church. It's been bureaucratically dismantled since its heyday during the '80s - the current Pope was then the lead inquisitor against it - and has greatly diminished traction in modern Catholicism.

There were positives, as with its support of the Nicaraguan revolution, but it was never a revolutionary program and it never went far enough. You need Marxism, not Christianity, if you want to dig the graves of the capitalists.

[Pravda Soyuz]

:star3::hammersickle::star3:
Its a step in the right direction, but would it take direct action against first world capitalist governments? I'm not against it, but you must recognize it for what it is, a fringe element of the Christian church.

[ComradeMan]

Well, liberation theology was really a reaction to the mass radicalization in some corners of the church. It's been bureaucratically dismantled since its heyday during the '80s - the current Pope was then the lead inquisitor against it - and has greatly diminished traction in modern Catholicism.

There were positives, as with its support of the Nicaraguan revolution, but it was never a revolutionary program and it never went far enough. You need Marxism, not Christianity, if you want to dig the graves of the capitalists.

Well, communism was really a reaction to the mass radicalization in some corners of the capitalism and "bourgeoisism". It's been bureaucratically dismantled since its heyday during the '20s - Lenin, Trotksy and Stalin were the the lead inquisitors against it - and greatly diminished the traction in modern communism.

There were positives, as with support of the Cuban revolution, but it failed to be a revolutionary program and it never went far enough or really succeeded where it took hold.
:lol:

I personally don't want to dig graves, would rather change an ideology, outlook and socio-economic system.

[Black Sheep]

"The individuals in a monstrous institution may be the nicest guys in the world, but their institutional role is monstrous, because the institution is monstrous"
- Noam Chomsky

Theism, let alone organized religion, is flawed and bad inherently.Possible positive "outbursts" and coincidences can't change that,and they certainly don't outweigh the negatives.
In overwhelmingly more situations the church has played a clear reactionary role.

It's like when old people here in greece support the military junta of 1967, and when you go 'wtf? junta, dude' , they go like "but they built roads and stuff".

[ComradeMan]

"The individuals in a monstrous institution may be the nicest guys in the world, but their institutional role is monstrous, because the institution is monstrous"
- Noam Chomsky


He's a fine one to talk.... ;)

I'm beginning to like him less than before in terms of his pronouncements.

[hatzel]

First up...trying to tie Liberation Theology, which the Catholic Church has tried really hard to stamp out, with the Catholic Church itself seems counter-intuitive. Sure, it's a Catholic branch, but the efforts made by the Vatican to discredit and outlaw it should suggest to anybody that they're hardly keen on it, and don't exactly see it as a 'legitimate' or 'supported' representation of their faith...

The fact of the matter is that Liberation Theologists out there in Latin America have had a tangible effect on the quality of life for the people, and this can't be counter-balanced by anything subjective like 'I don't like religion'. My personal experiences with Latin Americans have taught me that they are probably amongst the most religious Christians anywhere on Earth. Before we start calling them all brainwashed by the Catholic Church, I can guarantee you (that's how certain I am) that if all organised religion were dissolved today, every church smashed up and every priest killed, the death penalty handed out arbitrarily to anybody professing any religious or supernatural belief, they'd still carry on, gathering together in people's living rooms, praying in secret. The faith is an integral and inseparable part of everyday life.

So, when addressing Latin America, and any movement emanating there, we should remember that any anti-Christian movement will fall on deaf ears, will attract no popular support, and if it were to be put in place, it would be typical authoritarianism. That being kind of against our whole idea (unless we've read a little too much Rousseau and actually think that forcing 'freedom' on people is a good idea), it remains true that any groups hoping to have an impact in Latin America has little choice but to back Liberation Theology, and, more importantly, secure the backing of Liberation Theologists. Anybody out there who considers the Zapatistas a positive thing, for instance, will know how important a roll Liberation Theologists played in its successful implementation.

ALSO: of course the controversial people amongst us could point out that, when looking just as communes, the religious communist / anarchist / whatever communes have a tendency to outlive the non-religious communist / anarchist / whatever communes. Long after the non-religious ones have dissolved (or, at 'best', taken the typical socialist approach of turning to shameless capitalist pursuits), the religious ones remain. And why? Fact of the matter is, if somebody feels that they are striving for socialism as it is the divine will for creation, chances are they'll care a bit more about it than somebody who's striving for socialism because they just so happen to be an unemployed student with a bee in their bonnet, because they know that they'll one day have to get a job, work hard all day, and still not have as much money as their boss. If the two options are socialists on the back of religion, and socialists on the back of jealousy*, I'd sure rather have the former on my side, because the latter are probably just going to ditch the whole thing when they're powerful enough not to have to be jealous any more.

In summary, I happily throw my weight behind Liberation Theology...



*I am, by the way, aware that there are more than just these two options, but that's not the point.

[Crimson Commissar]

So, when addressing Latin America, and any movement emanating there, we should remember that any anti-Christian movement will fall on deaf ears, will attract no popular support, and if it were to be put in place, it would be typical authoritarianism. That being kind of against our whole idea (unless we've read a little too much Rousseau and actually think that forcing 'freedom' on people is a good idea), it remains true that any groups hoping to have an impact in Latin America has little choice but to back Liberation Theology, and, more importantly, secure the backing of Liberation Theologists. Anybody out there who considers the Zapatistas a positive thing, for instance, will know how important a roll Liberation Theologists played in its successful implementation.
We shouldn't support reactionary ideas regardless of whether they have popular support. A revolution is a forceful change of society, just as we must remove capitalism by force we must remove religion by force. Religion must be completely removed from public life, so that the people of the world will gradually abandon their beliefs in favour of more logical ones such as agnosticism and atheism. People should be able to pray in their own homes, but the construction of churches and other religious buildings is reactionary religious propaganda. A person sees a supposedly beautiful church and they immediately think of religion. They are immediately drawn to the concept. Even in a place like latin america, anti-religious policies are necessary. Infact they are more important there than anywhere else.

As for liberation theology, it's reactionary. You can't worship an all-powerful fascist god and yet still be a follower of socialism. It just doesn't make sense.