Nation Of Islam.

[hawarameen]

i am reading some literature on the NIO around the time of Malcom X and as far as i can make out, the NIO is quite blashemous.
they say that EiLija Muhhamed is a messenger of Allah which is totally conflicting with the koran which sais that the prophet Muhammed is the true messenger and the Lsat messenger of Allah.

Also Malcolm X was a hustler, trying to find scams and tricks in order to make money. does anyone think that his rebirth as a muslim was brought about by the dollar?

[Severian]

No. And if you think so, you'd have to admit it didn't work.

[Hampton]

Elijah was quite the hypocrite himself having quite a few illegitimate children. I don't think it was money or a search for wealth that brought Malcolm towards Islam it was more of he was looking for something that was missing in his life while he was in prison and I think that the NOI was about finding an identity and being proud of having dark skin and respecting yourself. Malcolm was definitely a hustler before he joined the NOI

I have to say though that the NOI has a high rate of getting people off of drug and alcohol abuse.

[YKTMX]

I like the NOI's stuff about the White Race being the result of an experiment by an eveil scientist. Genuis.

[ernestolynch]

Well I am a Marxist (Communist) and I refute ALL religions and racism.

But then a twatty SWP boojie boy like you would find it all SO rebellious against your folks eh?

ISLAM=SHIT
CHRISTIANITY=SHIT
JUDAISM=SHIT
BOODISM=SHIT
HINDUISM=SHIT
RACISM=SHIT

TROCKISM=SHITTIER THAN SHIT

[YKTMX]

Oh, on a campaign are we Ernesto? I am not or ever have been a member of the SWP. I am an admirer of Leon Trotsky and that get's right on your tits doesn't it?

[ernestolynch]

Like his :

Hair
Goatee
John Lennon Specs


??? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Hampton]

Yea that's nice and all but it has nothing to do with the thread. Pleace stop turning this into another "Why I hate Trotsky" thread. Thanks.

[ernestolynch]

Okay - Why I hate the Nation of Islam - because they are racist, fascist, obscurantist, religious freaks who hated the Black Panthers and killed Malcolm X when he turned towards Socialism.

FUCK ISLAM. Its shit.

Did they stone that woman to death in Nigeria?

[(*]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2003, 09:20 PM
Okay - Why I hate the Nation of Islam - because they are racist, fascist, obscurantist, religious freaks who hated the Black Panthers and killed Malcolm X when he turned towards Socialism.

FUCK ISLAM. Its shit.

Did they stone that woman to death in Nigeria?
About as "racist, fascist, and obscurantist" as you are!

[hawarameen]

what they preached goes against islam. there is only one prophet of islam and it wasnt eilija.
i think malcom was brainwashed the NIO had rules that they added to islam like the ban on smoking. i think it wasnt a group of muslims that formed NIO but a group of anti-whites after a bit of noteriaty. i would say malcom lived a far better and wealthier life after he made his name and i know that houses where bought with NIO money for elija, they just affiliated themselves with islam as it was the opposite to the white mans christian relegion.
thats my oppinion.

i should say i am in no way a religious person.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2003, 07:56 PM
Well I am a Marxist (Communist) and I refute ALL religions and racism.

But then a twatty SWP boojie boy like you would find it all SO rebellious against your folks eh?

ISLAM=SHIT
CHRISTIANITY=SHIT
JUDAISM=SHIT
BOODISM=SHIT
HINDUISM=SHIT
RACISM=SHIT

TROCKISM=SHITTIER THAN SHIT
This post has been reported to a moderator...me--on the grounds of ignorance.

Ernesto, that's "Buddhism" and "Trotskyism".

Please don't hijack threads to talk about Trotskyism. Start your own thread and at least try to come up with something more intelligent than "it's all shit".

Thanks.

:redstar2000:

[Severian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2003, 03:58 PM
i would say malcom lived a far better and wealthier life after he made his name

Malcolm X was never wealthy. He did live in a house that belonged to the NOI - just as a lot of ministers are live in a house that belongs to the church - and he lost it because of splitting from the NOI. He had to go to his sister and borrow money to make the pilgramage to Mecca and travel through Africa after breaking with the NOI.

He lived better than before he went to jail, I guess, but even that is not so much in terms of cash and luxuries but in the sense of avoiding all the problems that go with the lumpen lifestyle.

After getting out of jail, but before becoming a full-time minister, he worked in a Ford plant. That's a very good-paying union job - close to $20 an hour nowadays - and I bet he coulda made as much staying in that job as he ever did as a minister, let alone after breaking with the NOI. Probably wouldn't have gotten shot, either.

He left almost no property to his family, except for publication rights to his autobiography and speeches....which wasn't worth that much while he was alive. Malcolm alive wasn't nearly as popular - including among leftists - as Malcolm dead.

Malcolm X was a real revolutionary, who made sacrifices up to and including death for his beliefs. By implying that he was only in it for the money you simply demonstrate your own ignorance.

[hawarameen]

i know about his work fr ford co and allt hat, he was a hustler and ok he didnt have money but he LIVED beter when he wasa with NIO, i am not anti malcom X dont get me wrong and dont asume i dont know about him when i started a thread about him.

why would i start a thread about somone i dont know about im just trying to start a debate.

even at for i think he would stil be hustling, making ends meet. i think he did beleve in NOI but it overpowed him it controld him and when it ws claer to him that he was betrayed it hurt him.

what i was saying also was that the princples of NIO wer contry to islam, what do you say about thast?

please dont sume im ignorant, thats just ignorant eh!

[Severian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2003, 11:50 PM

why would i start a thread about somone i dont know about im just trying to start a debate.

even at for i think he would stil be hustling, making ends meet. i think he did beleve in NOI but it overpowed him it controld him and when it ws claer to him that he was betrayed it hurt him.

what i was saying also was that the princples of NIO wer contry to islam, what do you say about thast?

please dont sume im ignorant, thats just ignorant eh!

and dont asume i dont know about him when i started a thread about him.


Ignorance is the most charitable interpretation for why you'd say something that's flatly contrary to all facts about Malcolm X's life. The alternatives include dishonesty and trolling ("im just trying to start a debate"). I chose not to accuse you of those.


. i think he did beleve in NOI

Then why did you say his conversion was "brought about by the dollar"?


what i was saying also was that the princples of NIO wer contry to islam, what do you say about thast?


Obviously, but who cares? That's really the least of the problems with the NOI.

[suffianr]

Hey ernestolynch, why not try brushing up your communication skills before you try your hand at another "debate".

ALL RELIGIONS=SHIT will hardly suffice as a precursor to an engaing discussion. If there is something here that has anything remotely close to do with 'shit', I'd say it's you. Now, would you like another cup of Shut the Fuck Up?

[Bianconero]

Okay - Why I hate the Nation of Islam - because they are racist, fascist, obscurantist, religious freaks who hated the Black Panthers and killed Malcolm X when he turned towards Socialism

I agree, Malcolm X sure was on his way towards socialism in the end of his life. Too bad, I'm sure he could have gotten usefull to the movement.

Whilst being a major NOI - propagandist, however, he was useless and reactionary. As was Martin Luther King with his ridiculous 'love me and I'll love you' - slogans. Painfully stupid.

[redstar2000]

One of the interesting things about organized religions is their fluidity.

They all claim to have a "final revelation" which is "eternal and unchangable"...but the temptation to invent a "new revelation" is irresistible.

This is not because of some "religious instinct" built-in to "human nature". It is because being a "new prophet" pays considerable social dividends in class society...if you are successful at it in your own lifetime.

If you are able to convince a significant number of fools that you are indeed "God's newly-appointed voice on Earth", you can literally write your own ticket...aside from the limits of human physiology, you are a "god" and can do as you please.

If opulence appeals to you, your followers will starve themselves so that you can have it. Want a harem? Your female followers will be "honored" to serve your physical appetites. Just enjoy the sight of people cringing in servile obedience before your holy presence? You can have as much as you want.

How about historical "immortality"? That's tougher to do...but it has been done.

One can discuss at endless length whether or not this or that "new prophet" was or is "really sincere" (mentally ill, hears "voices", etc.) or "just a con-man" (perfectly sane, if rather cynical). A mixture of attributes is most probable...at least for the really famous ones.

But it's a pretty safe bet that even as we speak there are dozens or hundreds of "new prophets" out there looking for suckers...or, if you prefer, believers.

It's too good an opportunity to pass up.

http://www.sawu.org/redgreenleft/YaBBImages/smoking.gif
___________________________

U.S. GET OUT OF IRAQ NOW!
___________________________

"...a disgusting and frightening website"
The RedStar2000 Papers (http://www.sawu.org/redstar2000)
A site about communist ideas

[Umoja]

Baha'i doesn't consider itself the "final revelation" Redstar, just the newest one. But that isn't the topic.

If you do a search on K-lite you can DL MalcolmX speeches. I have a huge collection of them, and it's rather easy to tell the difference between his NoI ones and his MMinc ones.

Oh, and as Suffianr said, look below.

[FabFabian]

Nation of Islam....LOL ....the claimed that this was the true "Black" religion. Ask anyone born and raised in the Muslim faith will tell you that these jokers are out to lunch. Even Malcom X realized this in the end. It caused his death.

You don't build any bridges by shutting out and denegrating other people that you feel are your oppressors or opposition.