War and Primitive Communism

[Apoi_Viitor]

Given that there are numerous incidences of violence occurring in primitive communist societies, doesn't that run contrary to the Marxist narrative that history (and more specifically warfare) are driven by class antagonisms?

[28350]

Given that there are numerous incidences of violence occurring in primitive communist societies, doesn't that run contrary to the Marxist narrative that history (and more specifically warfare) are driven by class antagonisms?

Even the most reductionist caricatures of historical materialism come down to economics, not class.
Obviously you cannot have class be the motor of history in a classless society.
And what are these numerous instances?

[Apoi_Viitor]

Even the most reductionist caricatures of historical materialism come down to economics, not class.
Obviously you cannot have class be the motor of history in a classless society.
And what are these numerous instances?

"Nevertheless, some hold the actual deaths from war have decreased compared to past centuries. In War Before Civilization, Lawrence H. Keeley, a professor at the University of Illinois, calculates that 87% of tribal societies were at war more than once per year, and some 65% of them were fighting continuously. The attrition rate of numerous close-quarter clashes, which characterize endemic warfare, produces casualty rates of up to 60%, compared to 1% of the combatants as is typical in modern warfare."

http://www.troynovant.com/Franson/Ke...ilization.html

[bcbm]

where is it argued that warfare is the result of class antagonisms?

[Apoi_Viitor]

where is it argued that warfare is the result of class antagonisms?

I misspoke. I believe that most Marxists seem to believe wars are a result of the contradictions in the mode of production in a society - ex. Lenin's conception of imperialism. So my question is, what are the contradictions that led to violence in primitive communist societies?

[BIG BROTHER]

I misspoke. I believe that most Marxists seem to believe wars are a result of the contradictions in the mode of production in a society - ex. Lenin's conception of imperialism. So my question is, what are the contradictions that led to violence in primitive communist societies?

I think it had to do with the scarce resources? I mean there is a reason why many of this societies evolved into agrarian societies. They were indeed classes but were no utopia either.

Although I would argue that war between those societies as seen by the nomad indigenous societies wasn't as destructive as those lets say in feudal societies. This should be further studied.

[MarxSchmarx]

Well, it's worth noting that "history" generally means after writing began, and we have to take with a grain of salt studies on the severity of conflicts before written records.

With that caveat, many of these conflicts were also based on creating or maintaining class hierarchies - which weren't as rigid and the difference between classes was less, but they were real nontheless. for example you would have bands raid each other for slaves, esp. to do the
domestic work and care for young children while the men and the tribe's women foraged or herded, etc. Access over locally scarce resources is another key source of conflict, as it could lead to unequal trading relationships (or unequal trades in themselves can be sources of conflict) - both of which are key to developing more permanent classes. None of these, it seems, are fundamentally inconsistent with the notion of class being a major drive of human conflict.

Thus the salient question is why was the relatively egalitarian early mode of organization replaced by class hierarchies- and it seems these conflicts, which could be the effect of nascent class formation, exacerbated pre-existing differentials, creating something of a postivie feedback loop