I talk to Democrats who tell me that the Democrats are for the poor and the for the w

[tradeunionsupporter]

I talk to Democrats who tell me that the Democrats are for the poor and the for the workers and the working people and that Republicans are for the rich or the wealthy and for big business they tell me that since the Democrats are for a Progressive Income Tax System or higher taxes on the rich or the wealthy and higher taxes on big business that therefor the Democrats can't be a party of the rich/wealthy and big business my question is how do I explain to them that the Democrats are a party of big business and the rich/wealthy and a capitalist party just like the Republicans are ?

[Ele'ill]

They're keeping a system intact that requires poverty in order to function.

[ComradeAV]

I talk to Democrats who tell me that the Democrats are for the poor and the for the workers and the working people and that Republicans are for the rich or the wealthy and for big business they tell me that since the Democrats are for a Progressive Income Tax System or higher taxes on the rich or the wealthy and higher taxes on big business that therefor the Democrats can't be a party of the rich/wealthy and big business my question is how do I explain to them that the Democrats are a party of big business and the rich/wealthy and a capitalist party just like the Republicans are ?
Tell them that the policies of the democrats dont help very much with decreasing poverty and that by seeking to preserve the capitalist, they are aiding big business . Also point out that democrat party presidents like Obama and clinton haven't anything that is radically different from their republican counterparts. Even if they say things that different, they are the same whne it comes to actually enacting policies. Also point out that dems have supported imperialist agression throughout history, just as much as republicans did. Just because democrats ask for a 5% increase in taxes for the rich ,doesnt mean they are pro-poor. Since that increase would hardly heart them. They also have most of their candidates come from bourgoisie or petty-bourgoisie backgrounds.

[Impulse97]

Democrats are little better than Republicans/Tea Party. Granted they still support the Capitalist mode of production but, I'd rather have a Democrat in office than a TP'er.

Damn it pisses me off that there isn't more of a left movement here in the US. [people in general]They're quick to revert to the TP rhetoric and fail to see what truly needs to get done. Why must they wrap themselves in the blanket excuse of 'It looks good on paper but it doesn't work in action'. They have no basis to say so. No evidence. Yet they treat misconceptions and 'hunches' as fact. The Dems. claim to be liberal and open minded yet they fail to see that they are little better than puppets of the GOP and right wing fascists.

Why none of them see it is beyond me.:hammersickle::che::hammersickle:

[NoOneIsIllegal]

Both parties are capitalists parties. However, one party tends to make this false image of trying to help the working-class and the poor; The other party doesn't even try to portray this nor' will it ever have intentions to. This thought of democrats being a pro-labor party stems from the Golden Age of Democrats (1933 - 1945). During this time, reforms had to be made that were beneficial to the masses, otherwise the entire capitalist system would of been torn down. Laws ensuring social security, the right to organize a labor union, and a federal minimum wage were introduced to stem the tide of working-class radicalism that was appearing during the Great Depression. The Democrats enjoyed great success and some of the biggest landslides and majorities in U.S. history.

Because of this brief time, the idea that the Democratic Party has always been the party of the people has been sticking around. That's not actually the case. Some democrats have been the worst offenders of civil rights and supporters of the capitalist system. Harry Truman dropped the atomic bomb, even with intelligence showing it was unnecessary. Lyndon Johnson ran as the "peace candidate" and yet he escalated the Vietnam War to new heights that are still shocking to this day. Jimmy Carter started the process of neoliberalism in which Reagan-Bush pursued more heavily during their terms. Clinton utterly destroyed the welfare system and cuts billions of dollars out of medicare, medicaid, and the U.S. safety net.

Democrats have never been leading figures; they simply adopt and absorb social movements. Black, LGBT, and feminist movements are perfect examples of this. They don't pursue these agendas, they only give lip-service and will occasionally defend them (which is a problem itself: being a shield rather than a sword).

There are so many more offenses to add, but you get the point: the democrats, even with this new administration, are definitely not the party of the working-class.

[Amphictyonis]

They cut taxes for the rich and are cutting social programs left and right. Tell whoever you're talking to she/he is brainwashed then do some research of your own concerning Obama's extension of Bush tax cuts and start with the cuts of social programs/education/jobs in CA being waged by Democrat Jerry Brown. Clinton welfare reform? Clinton NAFTA? Democrats and Vietnam (many other wars as well). I can make a list for you if you want me to do so.

[tradeunionsupporter]

Could you please make a list thank you.

[Ele'ill]

Could you please make a list thank you.


I would suggest looking through what's been said already and doing your research on each point made so that you can find a naturally comfortable talking position and a way to smoothly progress through each point.

[RED DAVE]

Ask him why the Democrats support the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

RED DAVE

[theAnarch]

Most people forget that a Republican named Reagan launched the first modern bank bailout.

They also forget that World War I, World War II, Korean War, Vietnam War, the Bay of Pigs Invasion, The invasion of Panama, and the bombing of Yugoslavia were done under democrats.

Democrats also sustainted the sanctions and bombing of Iraq in the 90s and the preditor drone attacks on Pakistan now.

[Robert]

It is not in the ultimate interests of either Democrats or Republicans to see increases in the ranks of the poor. Both want to claim increasing prosperity in order to get your vote. Anyone who claims that either party wants more poverty is spewing nonsense.

That said, most of the entitlement programs since the Great Depression have resulted from Democratic initiatives. But ... Republican SpeakerDennis Hastert sponsored and Republican President Geo W. Bush signed into law, with bi-partisan support, the most recent increase to medicare, the Medicare Prescription Drug Improvement and Modernization Act. (A ~$500 billion program that I think is insane for at least two reasons.)

That's not to say that all entitlement programs are necessarily good for the poor. Many get trapped in the programs and come to feel there is nothing they can do but to keep begging for enough freebies to survive. They're wrong.

http://www.amazon.com/Race-Wrongs-Remedies-Politics-Economics/dp/0742562867/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1249503124&sr=8-2

[RGacky3]

It is not in the ultimate interests of either Democrats or Republicans to see increases in the ranks of the poor. Both want to claim increasing prosperity in order to get your vote. Anyone who claims that either party wants more poverty is spewing nonsense.


THere interests are the interests of the ruling class, which is profit profit profit, which ends up causing more poverty, its not directly the interests of poverty, but their interests are ones that end up causing more poverty.


That's not to say that all entitlement programs are necessarily good for the poor. Many get trapped in the programs and come to feel there is nothing they can do but to keep begging for enough freebies to survive. They're wrong.


There is no evidence for this, and it does'nt make any sense, its really an elitist bullshit attitude, i.e. the lower classes are lazy and need to be whipped into shape.

BTW most "entitlement programs" are called that because the people are ENTITLED to them, we pay social security, we pay unemployment, we pay taxes and we are entitled to the results, its our public money.

ALL benefits for working people, medicare, 8 hour day, union rights, everything, has come about due to public pressure and class warfare, the democrats would'nt have done it without that massiave public pressure, the democrats are not best for hte poor, the poor, the people are best, you need to take matters into your own hand and put pressure on the powers that be.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

"Every president since 1853 has belonged to either the Democratic or Republican Party.

"Both the Democrats and the Republicans represent the same ruling capitalist elite. Both parties receive their major funding from the same corporations and banks. Wal-Mart gives nearly the same amount of money to the Democratic Party as it does the Republican Party. Pfizer and AT&T do the same. Other corporations, like Home Depot and AFLAC, give a little more to the Democrats, but still make sure to donate substantially to the Republicans.

"The list goes on and on.

"As the saying goes, he who pays the piper calls the tune.

...

"The Democrats are not 'pro-worker'
"In the limited 'labor movement' that currently exists in the U.S., the Democrats are often viewed as more friendly to workers than the Republicans, In our country, which unlike most other countries in the world doesn’t even have a party pretending to represent the working class, many thus view the Democrats as 'pro-worker.'

"That the Democrats sometimes mouth pro-worker rhetoric during election season doesn’t change their class character one bit. When push comes to shove that fact becomes obvious.

"When transit workers in New York City went out on strike in 2005, Democrat Eliot Spitzer, then-New York State Attorney General, hit their union with legal injunctions and millions of dollars in fines. New York Senator Hillary Clinton, herself a leading Democrat, supported Spitzer’s earlier use of the anti-worker Taylor Law against those same workers in 1999.

"In 1985, Rudy Perpich, the Democratic governor of Minnesota, called out the National Guard to break the picket line of striking workers at the Hormel meatpacking plant in Austin and usher scab 'replacement workers' into the workplace.

"These are just two examples of many.

"Over the last several decades, union membership has declined as decent jobs have been increasingly replaced by part-time 'McJobs.' This has brought along with it a colossal drop in pay and benefits. In 2006, The New York Times reported that 'wages and salaries now make up the lowest share of the nation’s gross domestic product since the government began recording the data in 1947, while corporate profits have climbed to their highest share since the 1960’s.'

"The Democrats joined the Republicans in working on behalf of the capitalists they represent by overseeing and helping along the processes that have lead to these conditions.

"Still, the bureaucrats who lead what’s left of the unions in the U.S. today continue to tie the working people they supposedly represent to the capitalist Democratic Party!

"The utter treachery of such misleaders is aptly demonstrated by the current situation of the International Association of Machinists (IAM). While the 27,000 members of that union who have been out on strike against the Boeing Corporation for over a month are forced to eek out a living on the meager $150 strike pay they receive from the union each week, their union’s leaders are funneling millions of dollars into the record-setting campaign fund of multimillionaire Barrack Obama.

"The Democrats are not and cannot be an 'anti-war' party
"Many people in the U.S. falsely see the Democrats as an 'anti-war' party. History tells a different story. Democratic presidents were in office during the invasion of Haiti in 1915, the invasions of the Dominican Republic in both 1916 and 1965, the invasion of Russia in 1918, the invasion of Korea in 1950, the invasion of Viet Nam in 1963, the 'humanitarian' bombings of Yugoslavia throughout the 1990’s, the bombings of Afghanistan and Sudan in 1998, and the mercenary invasion of Cuba in 1961, among others. Former president Bill Clinton, a favorite of the party, sent more troops to more parts of the world than any U.S. president since World War II."

http://irsm.org/firsca/irscna/IRSN/IRSNissue%202.pdf

[Amphictyonis]

Could you please make a list thank you.
Sent you a web address in PM.

[Impulse97]

Sent you a web address in PM.

Could you send me one too?:hammersickle::che::hammersickle: