Neo-Nazi's say that the Bolshevik revolution was a Jewish Conspiracy....?

[cowslayer]

And that all Socialism and Communism is a Jewish/ some other form, of conspiracy.

Now other than their blatant insanity and arrogance, is their any way for them to actually support the idea that Communism is somehow a conspiracy of some sort? Maybe a conspiracy to those who oppose freedom, but certainly not a racial one I would think.

The only thing I could find related to this was when Lenin initially asked Trotsky to head to newly created Russian Socialist state, but Trotsky denied because he thought his Jewish ancestry would be too controversial.

Anyone?

[Revolutionair]

The Bolsheviks had a lot of Jews in their ranks, the Jews joined mostly to stop the Tsar-supported Pogroms. I guess Nazis would call this anti-antisemitism a conspiracy.

[Imposter Marxist]

And that all Socialism and Communism is a Jewish/ some other form, of conspiracy.

Now other than their blatant insanity and arrogance, is their any way for them to actually support the idea that Communism is somehow a conspiracy of some sort? Maybe a conspiracy to those who oppose freedom, but certainly not a racial one I would think.

The only thing I could find related to this was when Lenin initially asked Trotsky to head to newly created Russian Socialist state, but Trotsky denied because he thought his Jewish ancestry would be too controversial.

Anyone?


Wait wait, Communism isn't a jewish zionist conspriacy? I'm on the wrong fourm, anyone know a good one for that type of thing?
:laugh:

In all seriousness, yea, Nazi's have a tendency of calling anyone a "Jew" they need to. EVERYTHING. Just check out Stormfront for a few MINUTES. I've had a nazi tell me that EVERY communist is a jew, and every jew is a communist.

[L.A.P.]

Everything is a Zionist conspiracy.....even the Nazis! :ohmy:

[L.A.P.]

Wait wait, Communism isn't a jewish zionist conspriacy? I'm on the wrong fourm, anyone know a good one for that type of thing?
:laugh:

In all seriousness, yea, Nazi's have a tendency of calling anyone a "Jew" they need to. EVERYTHING. Just check out Stormfront for a few MINUTES. I've had a nazi tell me that EVERY communist is a jew, and every jew is a communist.

Last time I checked I was Indian and Italian. Maybe the Zionists kidnapped my parents' original baby and put my Jewish self instead so I can grow up to be a Communist that supports the Zionist agenda. (Do you see the irony in that?)

[Pretty Flaco]

This probably roots from, as Revolutionair said, the Bolsheviks having a large number of Jews in their ranks. But this is understandable, because at this point in russian history the socialists would have been the only party to be avidly against antisemitism.

[Savage]

The only thing I could find related to this was when Lenin initially asked Trotsky to head to newly created Russian Socialist state, but Trotsky denied because he thought his Jewish ancestry would be too controversial.

Anyone?

I believe Lenin actually had Jewish ancestry (amongst a mixed bag of other cultures), though probably considerably less than Trotsky.

[Nolan]

Yeah I'm not Jewish either. I don't know why they think everything that opposes them is controlled by Jews.

[Red Commissar]

A lot of this also originated with the anti-semitic work the "Whites" were producing. They riled the flames about this in the country side but it also went outside the borders of Russia to the rest of the world. There was a lot of talk about this "Judeo-Bolshevik" conspiracy to destroy the world, and much of it was later recycled into Nazi propaganda.

The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, being published before the Russian Revolution, was used extensively by the Whites to advance this idea, and claim the prediction it made was coming true. When they emigrated out of the nation to other western states, this trash followed.

Note this White Army poster depicting Leon Trotsky:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/WhiteArmyPropagandaPosterOfTrotsky.jpg

Nazi propaganda in Lithuania in 1941 tying Jews to the Communists

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0e/Nazi_Lithuanian_poster.JPG

This resonated with American capitalists who were trying to crush unions and worker discontent. They found this horrid thing convenient by tying socialism up with anti-semitic tendencies in their communities. Perfect example of this is Henry Ford with "The International Jew", again relaying this conspiracy. From there it began to make things worse and leave figments of this in people's imagination. This continued with the newspaper "Dearborn Independent".

[#FF0000]

Yeah no there's nothing you can do to convince them it was not some conspiracy because they will look and see a lot of jews joining the Bolsheviks but will ignore the Tsar and his goons breaking faces in pogroms.

[ComradeOm]

Now other than their blatant insanity and arrogance, is their any way for them to actually support the idea that Communism is somehow a conspiracy of some sort?No. Any 'evidence' that could possibly support some Judeo-Bolshevik world conspiracy is simply falsified. It is a cocktail of anti-communism and anti-semitism based on forgeries and prejudices. As with most conspiracy theories its almost impossible to disprove because there is simply nothing solid to challenge. Its like trying to explain to someone that goblins do not live under their bed

Unfortunately its also been a hugely popular theory for most reactionary/fascist regimes. Which is probably the easiest way to discredit it and one reason why its not quite as common as it once was. Here's an image from Vichy France showing how the Jews supposedly control everything from communism through to secular parliamentary parties and the US/UK


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v142/GreaterDCU/Misc/Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-2004-0211-500_Frankreich_Antisemitismus_Ausstellung.jpg

[Rooster]

I think that the Jewish thing is just a throw back from the 19th and 20th century anti-Semitism. Hitler wrote in mein kampf


It is difficult, therefore, to see how Marx's teaching can be
linked up with Judaism in particular. The popular statement
of his theory is the work of Friedrich Engels, an Aryan; and
his philosophy is derivative from Hegel, another Aryan. More-
over, Marx was a bitter critic of orthodox Judaism.

So he says that communism in itself is not a Jewish conspiracy.

Mostly I think all of this just stems from propaganda from the war,
and his inane ramblings. I believe originally the main beef with
communism was the idea of democracy. But I'm not sure how that
figures into a world wide conspiracy either.

[Rusty Shackleford]

to neo-nazis. everything is a jewish conspiracy. :lol:

[hatzel]

It's blatantly true, though...

Hitler had some 'good' ideas that Marxism advocated the creation of a state in which a large banking monopoly (controlled by the Rothschild family, of course) could be effectively established and maintained, on the back of state-sanctioned elimination of all competition...clearly Hitler had read a great deal of Marx's works...:rolleyes:

With Germany mentioned, I did point out on another thread that the post-WWI Bayerische Räterepublik (short-lived as it was) was a largely Jewish affair, with Kurt Eisner, Ernst Toller, Eugen Leviné, Erich Mühsam etc. all Jewish. All the big names, really. As this was one of the events that really went towards crystallising German Nazism, much as the Bienno Rosso indirectly contributed to the formation of Italian fascism, one can't be surprised that the heavy Jewish involvement in it was somehow 'proof' of it as a Jewish conspiracy.

Of course Jews were also over-represented in the Russian communist parties, not just the Bolsheviks, but I would say that the Bayerische Räterepublik was more important in cementing the idea, already suggested with the likes of Marx and Luxemburg forwarding communism, that the whole movement was Jewish-inspired. I think the Bolshevik revolution was brought in only through association; of course talking about the failed Bayerische Räterepublik as proof that the Jews are trying to take over the world is nowhere near as scary as pointing to an actual state that still exists, hence Hitler's particularly negative feelings about the Bolshevik revolution...carried on, of course, into the neo-Nazism of our times...

[ComradeOm]

While we're comparing passages from Mein Kampf - now there's a sentence I never thought I'd write - Hitler notes that:

"[The Jew] already sees the present European States as pliant instruments in his hands, whether indirectly through the power of so-called Western Democracy or in the form of a direct domination through Russian Bolshevism. But it is not only the old world that he holds in his snare; for a like fate threatens the new world. Jews control the financial forces of America on the stock exchange. Year after year the Jew increases his hold on Labour in a nation of 120 million souls. But a very small section still remains quite independent and is thus the cause of chagrin to the Jew"

Here we have a repetition of the basic concept of some overarching Jewish conspiracy that arrayed both Bolshevik Moscow and capitalist Washington against the German people. Its a theme that constantly crops up in Nazi propaganda throughout the years, particularly so after Barbarossa. This paper (PDF) (http://www.lekket.com/data/articles/001-018-003_000.pdf) gives a bit of background, albeit of the cut and paste variety, as to Hitler's conception of Judeo-Bolshevism and the role that this played in the Holocaust

[Nolan]

It's blatantly true, though...

Hitler had some 'good' ideas that Marxism advocated the creation of a state in which a large banking monopoly (controlled by the Rothschild family, of course) could be effectively established and maintained, on the back of state-sanctioned elimination of all competition...clearly Hitler had read a great deal of Marx's works...:rolleyes:

It's just like the right today - People in the media like Soros, the government, and secret banking cabals all have a socialist agenda. What we need to do is have a "second American Revolution" and restore this country to how it once was. And much like Hitler, the modern right has no clue about Marx or his work. I'd be willing to bet that if you went to Glenn Beck's rally and surveyed everyone you could count the people that are familiar at all with Marx's works on one hand. :lol:

Even though things such as American conservatism and nazism are radically different and developed in different contexts, you see the same themes repeated. The teabagger's "socialist" or "liberal" serves the same function as Hitler's "Jew" and Hitler's "communist." On both sides the enemy has infiltrated the nation's government, its education system, its business elite, and it uses those to force its agenda which threatens some fundamental value of X country. Immediate action is needed to stop this and save the nation from the jaws of doom.

I'm certain you could also draw some parallels with American progressivism, such as Obama's savior image. Don't forget some fascists admired people like Roosevelt.

What's important to note, however, is that the modern American right is still firmly grounded in liberalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism). The fascists were not. This is why it's absolutely incorrect to call teabaggers "fascists" in any sense, but I still see a lot of people on here doing it. Stop it.

[Tomhet]

Neo Nazis say loads of horrible and stupid things, at the same time what can we do about it? if they are not actively harming people I don't see the problem.. I know they are reactionary and potentially dangerous thugs, but it's sort of sketchy to go around accusing people of being nazis just because they have reactionary viewpoints, this being said, the minute Facist scum become active, they should be put down completely, and then some..

[Tommy4ever]

Anti-Semitism in the 1920s and 30s was in large part based on opposition to two key groups:

Communists and more specifically Bolsheviks

and

Laissez Faire Liberals

Fascism is an ideology that hates both those things and the Nazis blamed them on the Jews. The reasons for this blame are a variety of established culture of using Jews as scapegoats, the actual participation of Jews in these ideals, in spite of the fact they are so opposed. There was always a large pro-liberal movement amongst the German Jews in part due to the large number of middle class amongst them. Whilst in both Germany and the SU many revolutionaries had Jewish roots one of the most famous examples being Trotsky, but the Old Bolsheviks in particular were packed with Jews.

The hatred of Jews was not so much down to Jewish people themselves so much as the idea that both liberalism and Bolshevism were spawned and run by Jews. Indeed you'll find that the Nazis rarely just talked about Bolsheviks but often called them Judeo-Bolsheviks (an example of the idea of the two things merging into one).

In the 30s the traditional force of anti-communism (capitalist liberalism) was failing the people who supported it as the system looked to collapse entirely and unemployment went rampant. The Jews were used as a useful scapegoat to attatch both blame for the failings of 'high finance' and the 'evils' of Marxism and Bolshevism. In Nazi propoganda you'll often see a Nazi figure combating those twin 'evils' of high finance and Marxism and you'll often see those two things personified as a Jew.

These are some of the reasons anti-semitism grew so powerful in this period (even Winston Churchill wrote an article about 'Judeo-Bolshevism') and this is why people called the Bolsheviks products of the Jews. Today Neo-Nazis basically ideolise what went on during that period so just tow the old line.

I hoped this helped your understanding of this point.

[Amphictyonis]

Goebbels and Hitler needed NAZI troops to fight the Russians fiercely but I'm not sure if they actually believed it or if it was said for propaganda purposes. I don't much care about Nazi propaganda. The world is full of idiots this much I know- the other day I was on a right wing American site and they were saying Communism is just like Nazism.

[PhoenixAsh]

A few years ago I had some debate with a few Neo-nazi's about this. As they explained this concept to me it goes something like this:

The workers are continuously manipulated by capitalism and communism. This is a jewish conspiracy to prevent the true liberation of the working class and the aryan race. Jews exploited the opposing political puppet philosophies to keep the workers occupied and to take focus away from the main issue.

Now...the actual debate itself was, surprisingly articulate and intelligent in its construction. More so than what I can now reproduce here. I was somewhat amazed by that because I perhaps underestimated Nazi's as stupid. It also suprised me how much they tend to build their arguments on leftwing revolutionary thinking...with just that nasty twist in its conclusions.

After this I have come to accept that neonazism is very much more of a threat than I previously held possible. They are crafty and manipulative and tend to borrow rethorics from the left.

Later on learned from some appologist deserters from inside the nazi-scene that this was primarilly being done to persuade left-wing radicals to come over to their side.

I don't know if this is usefull...and I do not know if it is actualy what they think or made up on the spot...

[Dimentio]

And that all Socialism and Communism is a Jewish/ some other form, of conspiracy.

Now other than their blatant insanity and arrogance, is their any way for them to actually support the idea that Communism is somehow a conspiracy of some sort? Maybe a conspiracy to those who oppose freedom, but certainly not a racial one I would think.

The only thing I could find related to this was when Lenin initially asked Trotsky to head to newly created Russian Socialist state, but Trotsky denied because he thought his Jewish ancestry would be too controversial.

Anyone?

Their "evidence" is Jacob Schiff, a Jewish banker in New York who gave loans to the "Provisional Government" (Jews did generally not have any love for the Tsarist government, which they cannot be blamed for).

Their tactics are basically to see whether any Jewish individual into something, and then blame all Jews for that, just as if the Jews had some kind of hive mind.

The Jews are a kind of supranatural boogeyman for them, who is responsible for nearly everything they see as evil and tainted. Most of them don't really know anything about Jewish culture and have probably never met a Jew.

The Islamophobes are following a similar line of thinking. Ludicruously, they are supported in their assertion by Israeli Neo-conservatives.

[scarletghoul]

I'd be willing to bet that if you went to Glenn Beck's rally and surveyed everyone you could count the people that are familiar at all with Marx's works on one hand. :lol:
Only if you had no fingers


Even though things such as American conservatism and nazism are radically different and developed in different contexts, you see the same themes repeated. The teabagger's "socialist" or "liberal" serves the same function as Hitler's "Jew" and Hitler's "communist." On both sides the enemy has infiltrated the nation's government, its education system, its business elite, and it uses those to force its agenda which threatens some fundamental value of X country. Immediate action is needed to stop this and save the nation from the jaws of doom.

I'm certain you could also draw some parallels with American progressivism, such as Obama's savior image. Don't forget some fascists admired people like Roosevelt.

What's important to note, however, is that the modern American right is still firmly grounded in liberalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism). The fascists were not. This is why it's absolutely incorrect to call teabaggers "fascists" in any sense, but I still see a lot of people on here doing it. Stop it.
The tea party are certainly fascist. Do you think that all the similarities you just wrote (and the rest) are mere coincidences ? This movement comes from the same forces within capitalist society that created the nazi movement.
As you point out, there is the exact same logic as nazi antisemitism (Soros is of course a jew too..) though softened for obvious reasons. it mobilises petty-bourgeois grassroots support. it seeks to return america to some mythical time of national purity. And so on. These are all essential elements of fascist ideology.
Fascism becomes a serious political force when monopoly capitalism uses this ideology to consolidate their power. This is why the BNP are not an immanant threat. The Tea Party seems to be going this way via the Republican Party however.
The liberal influence on their ideology is just out of nationalism. They are no more liberal than Mussolini was Roman.

As for Roosevelt, he was admired by fascists because he marked the firm secure of monopoly industrial capital's rule in the US. Like Mussolini he reformed capitalism to try and bypass the inherent crisis (great depression). The New Deal and Mussolini's economics are both what George Jackson, in his amazing essay on Fascism, described as 'scientific capitalism', a response to scientific socialism. In fact, Jackson considered Roosevelt a fascist, and said that the US was a fascist state since the New Deal (I guess thats not a ridiculous position for a Black in the 60s to take. My view is that Fascism can emerge when its needed in any industrial capitalist country)

[Red Future]

Nazis and Fascists have been saying this for years .. its hardly new

[yobbos1]

Everything is a Zionist conspiracy.....even the Nazis! :ohmy:
I finally realized the depths of some of the insanity of the conspiracy circles when I heard some argue that the Jewish Rothschilds financed and planned:blink: the holocaust.