Forming a Red Guard in my area

[Impulse97]

How would I go about this?

Would they be armed as a People's Militia? Or a service group who helps the community? Both?

What about uniforms? Ranks?

What about recruitment?

I'm really looking for any and all ideas on the matter. If you have an idea feel free to pm with it.

I want to form a group that will put a good face on Socialism. One that people can look at and say 'Those Guardsmen are really cool/trustworthy/beneficial society etc. etc.' and thus help change the negative stigma associated with leftism.

Thanks.:hammersickle::che::hammersickle:

[gorillafuck]

For one, don't form a militia or "red guard". That's a terrible idea.

For two, you just asked us to give you advice on how to form left wing militias. Well alright then, officer.

[Broletariat]

I read the topic title and expected to see a Psy post.

I also lol'd.

[Paulappaul]

Ditch the whole ranks, uniforms etc. Those are stigmas that resemble Bourgeois Military. Red Militia's are non-hierarchical and a complete break with Bourgeois Society.

I think being ready for any sort of Riot/march is important. Geniune organisations are generally prepared for them with a sort of red guard - the people most willing and ready to fight and loss for the purpose of raising consciousness.

[cowslayer]

I would not do so because you will most likely just end up in jail. Not enough support yet, so you will probably just be apprehended by the FBI and you will have thrown away your life and any chance at contributing to the workers movement.

And even if you did this still, I would not call yourselves Red Guards. Red Guards were established for the sole purpose of defending the Soviets and Workers Councils when Kerensky tried to subdue them.

Since there are no Councils yet, and most recognized Unions are corrupt and greedy and will likely support the US Government, there is nothing to Guard.

[dearest chuck]

Living in the moment brings you a sense of reverence for all of life's blessings.

Partake of some of life's sweet pleasures. And yes, get comfortable with yourself.

The big secret in life is that there is no big secret. Whatever your goal, you can get there if you're willing to work.

[southernmissfan]

Living in the moment brings you a sense of reverence for all of life's blessings.

Partake of some of life's sweet pleasures. And yes, get comfortable with yourself.

The big secret in life is that there is no big secret. Whatever your goal, you can get there if you're willing to work.

areyouawizard.jpeg

Anyways, to the OP, just nope. Get involved with other workers in your area and become active. Forming a "militia" is a bit silly unless you are in Greece or Nepal or somewhere like that.

[NoOneIsIllegal]

Do you have wet dreams over shooting shit or looking badass? A militia is completely unnecessary at this moment, and you will just be shooting yourself in the foot.

Get involved with workplace struggles and surrounding community problems.

[Pretty Flaco]

wtf is this shit?
You're in the fucking USA. Not a single sane minded person in the USA looks kindheartedly upon militia members.

[Paulappaul]

wtf is this shit?
You're in the fucking USA. Not a single sane minded person in the USA looks kindheartedly upon militia members.

Have you ever lived in the South? People are really sympathetic towards Militia's - it's a constitutional right after all.

[psgchisolm]

Have you ever lived in the South? People are really sympathetic towards Militia's - it's a constitutional right after all.
They just don't look kindly toward the "Pinko" Left-wing commie ones.

[dearest chuck]

impulse97, there are ways to meet girls that don't end in a SWAT team standoff.

[Pretty Flaco]

wait... this has got to be a joke topic, right? :lol:

[NoOneIsIllegal]

Have you ever lived in the South? People are really sympathetic towards Militia's - it's a constitutional right after all.
True, but sadly right-wing militias are the ones that are looked upon with approval. I don't think people would be too friendly towards left-wing militias at the moment.

[Pretty Flaco]

True, but sadly right-wing militias are the ones that are looked upon with approval. I don't think people would be too friendly towards left-wing militias at the moment.

Are you saying that you hope someday the left will be able to establish popular militias in the US?...

I was hoping someday militias would stop forming in the US.

[The American]

The Red Guard has an annotation connected to it that will bring back some memories of the cold war to some americans so I wouldn't suggest using that name. Also I wouldn't flaunt that you're an armed militia. If you want to do community service, fine. If you want to do community service while packing heat, fine just don't make that your priority.

[Diello]

True, but sadly right-wing militias are the ones that are looked upon with approval. I don't think people would be too friendly towards left-wing militias at the moment.

A few months ago I saw signs going up encouraging people to enlist in the FREEDOM GAURD.

That's right, the FREEDOM GAURD.

[NoOneIsIllegal]

Are you saying that you hope someday the left will be able to establish popular militias in the US?...

I was hoping someday militias would stop forming in the US.
No.

[NoOneIsIllegal]

a few months ago i saw signs going up encouraging people to enlist in the freedom gaurd.

That's right, the freedom gaurd.
freedom: Come get some

[Pretty Flaco]

No.

I misinterpreted...
my bad

[FreeFocus]

This has epic potential.

Anyway, you're just getting way ahead of yourself. If you want to make a community service organization that organizes the homeless, the hungry, etc, that's something entirely different. But talking about an armed militia right now? Come on. You can't just read Guerrilla Warfare or read about focoism and think you can just do that under any conditions. You need to build the prerequisite base of support and consciousness. How much police brutality is there in your area? That's an issue you could easily organize around, and link it to other forms of oppression and the radical solutions needed to handle the problem.

[Red Commissar]

You'll probably need some strong leftist mercenaries to get this off the ground and running.

Though in all seriousness I suggest you actually try seeing if people have an interest in socialism and getting that idea out. You won't do much making a militia with out that, and just end up like one of those weird gun clubs to the outsider.

[Broletariat]

You'll probably need some strong leftist mercenaries to get this off the ground and running.
Not only that, but he'll probably be interested in getting some forklifts too.

[TC]

As long as you follow all local and national firearms laws, you don't threaten anyone or incite violence, and you have the right permits - its actually really not illegal to organize a militia in many (or maybe most) parts of the United States so there is no reason to think you'd be jailed for doing just that provided you weren't also threatening people or carrying without a permit or carrying in places excluded by statutes or modifying weapons or purchasing weapons illegally or drilling illegally etc.

So, while this post seems to me to be either a troll (though probably not savvy enough to be an actual government or police type) or someone very naive, its not really nearly as much of an OMG ILLEGAL thing as people seem to think (again, in America, in states and municipalities with appropriate gun laws - its very different in Europe or Washington DC where you obviously would be arrested).

I also think theres something kindof strange about claiming both the socialist party usa and wwp as your organization...I take it as obvious that you aren't actually a WWP cadre since they wouldn't ask anything this stupid.

You would have to consult local and state laws on this. Regardless - despite the revleft myth, there is no criminal liability for discussing these topics provided you aren't threatening anyone or inciting any specific acts.

[FreeFocus]

As long as you follow all local and national firearms laws, you don't threaten anyone or incite violence, and you have the right permits - its actually really not illegal to organize a militia in many (or maybe most) parts of the United States so there is no reason to think you'd be jailed for doing just that provided you weren't also threatening people or carrying without a permit or carrying in places excluded by statutes or modifying weapons or purchasing weapons illegally or drilling illegally etc.

So, while this post seems to me to be either a troll (though probably not savvy enough to be an actual government or police type) or someone very naive, its not really nearly as much of an OMG ILLEGAL thing as people seem to think (again, in America, in states and municipalities with appropriate gun laws - its very different in Europe or Washington DC where you obviously would be arrested).

I also think theres something kindof strange about claiming both the socialist party usa and wwp as your organization...I take it as obvious that you aren't actually a WWP cadre since they wouldn't ask anything this stupid.

You would have to consult local and state laws on this. Regardless - despite the revleft myth, there is no criminal liability for discussing these topics provided you aren't threatening anyone or inciting any specific acts.

It's not illegal, but I think most people's points had to do with the idea being unbelievably dumb. If you form a socialist militia, you will have the Feds on your ass for the rest of your life (yes, they do monitor most of the bigger right-wing ones too).

[Tomhet]

Ridiculous militancy, what do you think these armed units will actually accomplish?

[Nolan]

Sorry but the glorious death by SWAT team isn't for me.

[Fawkes]

Don't

[The American]

I can see it now,

Leftist terror group seeks to incite violence in the name of socialism

[Jack]

This kid's also 13.....I couldn't help but lol.

http://www.red-october.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/pioneer.jpg

[#FF0000]

I think these responses have drifted from kind of funny to abusive.

[#FF0000]

Or a service group who helps the community?

This is a good idea, I think, by the way, but I have no idea how to get something like that started.

[Welshy]

Or a service group who helps the community? This is a good idea, I think, by the way, but I have no idea how to get something like that started.

Me and one of my friends have express quite a bit interest in an idea like this one. So I would be interested in hearing ideas on this, since it wouldn't be that much thread derailment if at all.

[bcbm]

it would be a good idea to start by figuring out how you want to "help" the community and also how a service organization providing this help would differ from the numerous charity organizations that also provide help.

[ComradeOm]

I want to form a group that will put a good face on Socialism. One that people can look at and say 'Those Guardsmen are really cool/trustworthy/beneficial society etc. etc.' and thus help change the negative stigma associated with leftismThat's not what a 'Red Guard' is. These are combat units comprised of armed workers and designed to protect/advance a much larger revolutionary movement. They cannot be divorced from this wider context or established in the absence of extremely acute class warfare. Or at least there's no point in doing so

That said, I'm not going to fault your intentions, which are good. I'd suggest that you get involved with a local charity and build from there, or simply start doing good works by yourself and attract others. Just drop the whole 'Red Guard' line. You can play up socialism as much as your circumstances allow but don't try and set yourself up as a militia or similar. Aside from the negative attention and hassle, you're just not going to achieve anything by bearing arms

[TC]

That's not what a 'Red Guard' is. These are combat units comprised of armed workers and designed to protect/advance a much larger revolutionary movement. They cannot be divorced from this wider context or established in the absence of extremely acute class warfare. Or at least there's no point in doing so

That said, I'm not going to fault your intentions, which are good. I'd suggest that you get involved with a local charity and build from there, or simply start doing good works by yourself and attract others. Just drop the whole 'Red Guard' line. You can play up socialism as much as your circumstances allow but don't try and set yourself up as a militia or similar. Aside from the negative attention and hassle, you're just not going to achieve anything by bearing arms

Obviously the term "red guard" is used different places to mean different things, its actually pretty generic. The most famous group to call itself the Red Guard is surely the Red Guard in the Chinese Cultural Revolution, which was comprised of young civilians, mostly teenage students, who were uniformed and militant but almost always unarmed. The Russian Red Guard was of course a paramilitary/militia organization that was actually aiming for a revolution.

What the original poster describes is in some ways most similar to the Red Guard Party in the U.S., which was a Chinese-American version of the Black Panther Party: they were new communist movement Marxists who provided community service and community self defense like the BPP.

[Triple A]

I laughed when I saw this thread.

Do you really think that you will create a milita in your area?

You are funny:thumbup1:

If you want to be active organise with some friends and go arround finding and beating fascists.

[TC]

If you want to be active organise with some friends and go arround finding and beating fascists.

Bare in mind, in America, the fascists have guns.

[Fawkes]

Let's lay off ripping on em a little bit, they've got energy, passion, imagination, and a desire to do something, all of which are quintessential elements for any active leftist and which some users on this board could seemingly use more of.

But to further expound on my previous post, don't form an (un)armed militia group. The atmosphere is not right, there's no support base, there's no real need yet, and it would do far more harm than good for the image of socialism, not to mention the legal tracking that would ensue. Work on raising awareness and consciousness, organizing people against whatever particular issues are effecting your community, disseminating information, attempting to work across racial and gender lines )while still recognizing the issues inherent to those things), and anything else that would get us to a point where somewhere down the line a militia would actually be necessary. In other words, get out there, drop some knowledge, and organize.

[Triple A]

Bare in mind, in America, the fascists have guns.


Who cares? We have our traditional weapon : the cocktail molotov
And we can have guns aswell.

[psgchisolm]

Who cares? We have our traditional weapon : the cocktail molotov
And we can have guns aswell.
Keep with this talk and you can also have a nice claustrophobic jail cell, or a cool black body bag.

[Fawkes]

Who cares? We have our traditional weapon : the cocktail molotov
And we can have guns aswell.

In spite of what I said before, yall still gotta lay off the imaginary trigger finger a little bit, it aint like that in the real world.

[LibertyOrMartyrdom]

I'd say make an organisation (not so much a militia, more of a volunteer brigade) dedicated to helping and enriching the community you live in, if there ever came a time when you needed to take up arms then by all means do so, but until that day spread positive influence in your surrounding area, who knows... The movement may expand beyond your community and enter the wider world.

[Blackscare]

Not only that, but he'll probably be interested in getting some forklifts too.


So that he can MAKE TOTAL DESTROY?



[Edit]

To the OP, I'd like to say don't take what these angry basement-dwellers have to say too seriously, except the bit about not forming a militia and getting sent to Guantanamo. That would be bad. But they've been ripping into you too much for it to be honest. I think the idea of a community works group is excellent, but I would take care to see if there's already some leftist organization in your area that's already doing that sort of thing (better to join with a pre-existing group than needlessly fracturing the movement, if you can help it).

[Comrade_Stalin]

That said, I'm not going to fault your intentions, which are good. I'd suggest that you get involved with a local charity and build from there, or simply start doing good works by yourself and attract others. Just drop the whole 'Red Guard' line. You can play up socialism as much as your circumstances allow but don't try and set yourself up as a militia or similar. Aside from the negative attention and hassle, you're just not going to achieve anything by bearing arms

Are these the same charity that help keep the capitalst system alive? The religious ones that ask each day to give money to help some one in a third world county, while they pocket 50 cent on the dollor given to them. Those same charity that cover up the problems caused by that capitalist system, or the same charity that "prove that it works". Name for me one Left wing or communist charity here in the US.

I it funny that we are asked on this fourm to fix the problems of capitalism and not destroy the capitalist system. All the while right wing milita form around us like PMC. For some reason it ok on this forum for the right wing to arm it self while we are only looking to be killed or jailed if we do it our selfs.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

Charity = Condescending Bullshit
Solidarity = Not Charity

Keep this distinction in mind.
When it comes to organizing in yr community, remember that you're no fucking messiah - work with people, not for them.

Recently, I've been really inspired by the Seattle Solidarity Network - their model might interest you, insofar as they seem to manage to be successfully confrontational without guns/bullshit.

[TC]

Who cares? We have our traditional weapon : the cocktail molotov
And we can have guns aswell.

Molotov cocktails are 1. traditional weapons of anti-communist reactionaries (the name comes from throwing them at molotov's tanks in Finland) 2. not effective except against unguarded buildings, parked cars, and vehicles carrying explosives (like, molotov's tanks)...bringing a molotov cocktail to a gun fight is like bringing a knife to a gun fight.

And anyways, leftists don't have a culture of gun ownership in America (anymore), whereas rightists do. I've never shot or handled a gun in my life, but many of the american rightwingers I know own them.

[Robocommie]

Who cares? We have our traditional weapon : the cocktail molotov
And we can have guns aswell.

Dude, this shit isn't a video game.

[hatzel]

Dude, this shit isn't a video game.

It will be if we all dress up like the Halo-guy, though...

[Robocommie]

It will be if we all dress up like the Halo-guy, though...

We bunny hop for the proletariat!

[hatzel]

*Shoot fascist...squat, stand, squat, stand, squat, stand*

[RED DAVE]

I'd say make an organisation (not so much a militia, more of a volunteer brigade) dedicated to helping and enriching the community you live in, if there ever came a time when you needed to take up arms then by all means do so, but until that day spread positive influence in your surrounding area, who knows... The movement may expand beyond your community and enter the wider world.What would you do to help and enrich your community that isn't social work?

Community organizing has a long history for the Left. Unless it's done in conjunction with a broader movement, it's a waste of time.

RED DAVE

[Triple A]

You people miss sarcasm:bored:

[red cat]

How would I go about this?

Would they be armed as a People's Militia? Or a service group who helps the community? Both?

What about uniforms? Ranks?

What about recruitment?

I'm really looking for any and all ideas on the matter. If you have an idea feel free to pm with it.

I want to form a group that will put a good face on Socialism. One that people can look at and say 'Those Guardsmen are really cool/trustworthy/beneficial society etc. etc.' and thus help change the negative stigma associated with leftism.

Thanks.:hammersickle::che::hammersickle:

If your movement does not have a concrete social basis then it will degenerate. If you concentrate on workplace struggles and organize workers to fight for real gains, you will see very interesting things happening after some time. The next steps will be to create a solid core of communists and expand the workers' struggle by utilizing broader social issues.

[Impulse97]

Thanks for all the input!:)

I've got a few ideas going. There isn't much of a movement here or any other established group. And based on the fact that we just elected a TP'er to congress...well you see.

Perhaps, this group could help spark something. Be the catalyst for a movement here. Who knows.

I'd still love to see more ideas if you've got em. Perhaps more detailed ones about the actual structure of such a group, since I'm pretty set on starting one(even an unarmed one).:hammersickle::che::hammersickle:

[Sam_b]

This should be closed, it's sketchy as fuck.

[Fawkes]

This should be closed, it's sketchy as fuck.

I don't think so, it's advice for people that have this idealistic vision of some great army formed out in the woods that will take over D.C., which I think there are more than we realize. Some of the posts here are kind of sketchy, but generally speaking this has been a constructive thread with advice given on other methods of community organizing beyond an armed militia.

[The Local Loser]

Do you have a base of support?

Are the conditions right?

Are you urban or rural?

Would the Militia be centralised or autonomous?

What are the gun laws like where you live?

Are there any issues you could focus on to gain support in your immediate community?


You need to paint a clearer picture, or people will just dismiss you as naive.

Good luck if you do put it together anyway.

[Comrade_Stalin]

This should be closed, it's sketchy as fuck.

agreed, this post has turned into a "troll for all" post were it seems ever one has the right ot attack him.


I don't think so, it's advice for people that have this idealistic vision of some great army formed out in the woods that will take over D.C., which I think there are more than we realize. Some of the posts here are kind of sketchy, but generally speaking this has been a constructive thread with advice given on other methods of community organizing beyond an armed militia.

Trolling is not advice. Most of what was said was go and join you local Charity or falt out attack against his ideals. Hell he is well in his rights troll many people who posted here back. There may be a time for sarcasm but it not for an entre post over three pages,


Thanks for all the input!:)

I've got a few ideas going. There isn't much of a movement here or any other established group. And based on the fact that we just elected a TP'er to congress...well you see.

Perhaps, this group could help spark something. Be the catalyst for a movement here. Who knows.

I'd still love to see more ideas if you've got em. Perhaps more detailed ones about the actual structure of such a group, since I'm pretty set on starting one(even an unarmed one).:hammersickle::che::hammersickle:

No one here has put down any ideals. This post may be a waste of your time, if you are looking for any good ideals to add. They have gone out of there way to attack ther ideal of a red militia, well at least here in the states. At the very leasted they could of answered some questions, like if communist came to power, would we build a Red standing army or a Red milita? How would we train them? Hell they did not even answer your question on ranks and uniforms.

[Impulse97]

agreed, this post has turned into a "troll for all" post were it seems ever one has the right ot attack him.



Trolling is not advice. Most of what was said was go and join you local Charity or falt out attack against his ideals. Hell he is well in his rights troll many people who posted here back. There may be a time for sarcasm but it not for an entre post over three pages,



No one here has put down any ideals. This post may be a waste of your time, if you are looking for any good ideals to add. They have gone out of there way to attack ther ideal of a red militia, well at least here in the states. At the very leasted they could of answered some questions, like if communist came to power, would we build a Red standing army or a Red milita? How would we train them? Hell they did not even answer your question on ranks and uniforms.


^^^This.

Although generally I agree with the above statement, I feel that there where at least a few people who added some constructive points.

I would appreciate some more direct answers though. Also, it seems that sarcasm and arrogance are quite rampant on rev left. Not just in this topic but most of them. We're supposed to be smarter than your average Rightist, why then are we as a fora so self absorbed? I ask a simple question and these are the responses I get?:hammersickle::che::hammersickle:

[Fawkes]

No one here has put down any ideals. This post may be a waste of your time, if you are looking for any good ideals to add. They have gone out of there way to attack ther ideal of a red militia, well at least here in the states. At the very leasted they could of answered some questions, like if communist came to power, would we build a Red standing army or a Red milita? How would we train them? Hell they did not even answer your question on ranks and uniforms.

Yeah, um, no. Sure, a lot of people have been abusive pricks, but people have given advice on alternatives to forming a gun-toting militia in the U.S. where the time is most certainly not right.

Perhaps we would have given some answers about a post-revolution militia or army... but they weren't asked. In case you didn't notice, the OP said they wanted to get something going now, they didn't ask about a post-capitalist society, they asked how to go about attaining that.

If the OP is curious about how a revolutionary group would go about defending themselves when faced with opposition I would be happy to provide some insight, but they said they were "Looking to Form a Red Guard", something which I and others did address.

[Decolonize The Left]

^^^This.

Although generally I agree with the above statement, I feel that there where at least a few people who added some constructive points.

I would appreciate some more direct answers though. Also, it seems that sarcasm and arrogance are quite rampant on rev left. Not just in this topic but most of them. We're supposed to be smarter than your average Rightist, why then are we as a fora so self absorbed? I ask a simple question and these are the responses I get?:hammersickle::che::hammersickle:

The truth is that you did not ask a simple question.

In the first place you violated the basic rules of security culture (i.e. common sense) by asking how to form an armed militia. This endangers the board, yourself, and everyone on the board whether you like to admit it or not.

In the second place, you could have asked "what do folks think about forming armed militias?" This question would have garnered the same responses without the danger. Furthermore, you would have quickly learned that the idealistic and romanticized notion of forming a rebel group within the US is not only childish and asinine, but also completely contrary to the stated goals of almost all communists (which is to radicalize and organize the working class). Furthermore, most anarchists acknowledge that this idea is totally impractical as they are very familiar with the repressive mechanisms of the state.

And finally, you have all the markings of trolling. Your hammer-sickles and che icons coupled with your questions about forming armed militias only to respond that they're innocent inquiries?
If I'm wrong about this, then you may take this post as a friendly piece of advice - use your head before you possibly endanger people. Use the search function or just browse the forum before making threads.

If I'm right, then now we both know.

This thread should be closed.

- August

[the last donut of the night]

http://www.chaobell.net/newgallery/d/2905-2/awwwwshit.jpg

[Decolonize The Left]

Please don't post spam pics - such posts merit a warning.

- August

[Impulse97]

If you'll read my first post you'll see that I did not ask if I should form an armed militia. I asked if they should be or if they should be a community organization. If I had intended to form an armed one from the get go why did I even ask about it in the first place?

Secondly, Militias are protected in the constitution. Something most right wingers vigorously uphold. Also, If said group was not committing or planning to commit any grievous crimes what grounds would the Government have to arrest us?

Lastly, why would you call me a troll? I do believe that half the replies here show that most of the board are trolls.:hammersickle::che::hammersickle:

[FreeFocus]

Also, If said group was not committing or planning to commit any grievous crimes what grounds would the Government have to arrest us?

Don't be naive. The government arrests who it wants and does what it wants.

[Kuppo Shakur]

Please don't post spam pics - such posts merit a warning.

- August
Your not the boss anymore, August.
TROLL WITH USSSSSSS.

[Impulse97]

Don't be naive. The government arrests who it wants and does what it wants.

Instead of calling me naive why don't you explain you effing point and teach those who don't know? I see this a lot. Some one of RL bashes another for perceived ignorance or naivete and never teaches or explains anything. For a board who promotes community involvement we aren't much of a community, rather we push those who do not know away and let them struggle and learn on their own.

Why then haven't the right wing militias been arrested. They pose just as big a threat. Especially to a Democratic administration.

Lastly, I really want to get off the topic of a Militia. Perhaps the service goup is a better path. Yet, I wonder how we are to get the working class motivated? Sure we can open their eyes to the injustice but what fraction of them while angry, would actually be angry enough to do something about it. Namely, betray their government in a revolt.:hammersickle::che::hammersickle:

[Catmatic Leftist]

Why then haven't the right wing militias been arrested. They pose just as big a threat. Especially to a Democratic administration.

Right-wing militias are allowed to thrive because their interests are directly aligned with the bourgeois. Of course the Democratic Party won't do anything about them; liberals have been known to side with right-wingers and reactionaries because they have the same class interests.

[indya]

ha. forming a militia is probably the stupidest thing you can do at this point. until there is much more support, the only revolution that is going to happen in the US is going to be a gradual ideological one. once the time comes in the very unforeseeable future that political revolution seems viable, form a 'red' guard.

[TC]

I don't care if this thread is closed or not but i do think its a bit annoying that leftists don't recognize that too much security culture does the job of the state in suppressing dissent - security culture should be used to suppress actual illegal discussions (i.e. those that incite criminal behavior, which midwestern american militias are not, or that constitute a conspiracy to engage in a criminal enterprise, which again this is not...simple advice and discussion of drugs or explosives or firearms, does not qualify in and of itself without actual incitement or conspiracy. Discussing the the legality of ages of consent or for that matter the legality of drugs, legality of anything else, is actually constitutionally protected speech of the most obvious sort and is very much legal in America.)

So I think that tendency on revleft should stop...



Though, I would guess that anyone who manages to get no better than a -5.13 on social liberation/authoritarian on the libertarian's political compass will probably get restricted eventually :p.

[black magick hustla]

maybe you can start a communist street gang. that was basically what the "antifascists" in the days of the SA amounted to so you can def do it

[Comrade_Stalin]

Yeah, um, no. Sure, a lot of people have been abusive pricks, but people have given advice on alternatives to forming a gun-toting militia in the U.S. where the time is most certainly not right.

Perhaps we would have given some answers about a post-revolution militia or army... but they weren't asked. In case you didn't notice, the OP said they wanted to get something going now, they didn't ask about a post-capitalist society, they asked how to go about attaining that.

If the OP is curious about how a revolutionary group would go about defending themselves when faced with opposition I would be happy to provide some insight, but they said they were "Looking to Form a Red Guard", something which I and others did address.

Ture we should of tolled him to restate his question as how to from a post-revolution militia or army, but we did not do that. Most of us tolled him to join the local Charity or pricked on him, which is still out of line. If we had moved this post to that point even if he was trying to troll us it would result in better post about the subject. I myself asked which should we form, a revolution militia or army, in other post, but It died out. I also asked how do we know that we have a revolution militia or army.

[Impulse97]

Though, I would guess that anyone who manages to get no better than a -5.13 on social liberation/authoritarian on the libertarian's political compass will probably get restricted eventually :p.



Honestly, I'm at a loss as to whether this is humor or not.

If it is, then I apologize for not getting the joke.

If not, then let me say that I know several others here who have scored in the 5.00-5.99 range.:hammersickle::che::hammersickle:

[Fawkes]

Honestly, I'm at a loss as to whether this is humor or not.

If it is, then I apologize for not getting the joke.

If not, then let me say that I know several others here who have scored in the 5.00-5.99 range.:hammersickle::che::hammersickle:

Cause RevLeft is run by a secret anarchist dictatorship.

[southernmissfan]

OP: Didn't you say your area just elected a Tea Party candidate? If so, a group to oppose the far-right is probably necessary. The far-right is growing in America and it's important that we have militant working class organizations opposing these reactionaries.

[Impulse97]

OP: Didn't you say your area just elected a Tea Party candidate? If so, a group to oppose the far-right is probably necessary. The far-right is growing in America and it's important that we have militant working class organizations opposing these reactionaries.


Yea, Joe Walsh.

He ran GOP but they refused to support him because they felt he'd lose. His beliefs and funding where entirely Tea Party.

I voted Green Party, but they never win. Boo.:hammersickle::che::hammersickle:

[NoOneIsIllegal]

As someone who has worked with the Green Party, they're simply progressive democrats without corporate-backing. It's better to vote for that candidate against a Tea Party candidate, but don't put too much hope in that group.

[RED DAVE]

Back to the OP:


How would I go about this?

Would they be armed as a People's Militia? Or a service group who helps the community? Both?

What about uniforms? Ranks?

What about recruitment?

I'm really looking for any and all ideas on the matter. If you have an idea feel free to pm with it.

I want to form a group that will put a good face on Socialism. One that people can look at and say 'Those Guardsmen are really cool/trustworthy/beneficial society etc. etc.' and thus help change the negative stigma associated with leftism.

Thanks.:hammersickle::che::hammersickle:I'm going to get a little rough here.

Does anyone see the extraordinary level of political immaturity, almost a lack of any politics at all in this post? Why would anyone who has any knowledge of left-wing politics even consider such a thing. It attempts, on a purely subjective basis, to transform a very dubious movement from China of 40 years ago to, I assume, the USA. If, presumably, the poster lives in the USA, this is insanity. The only thing that can be taken seriously is the vague intentions of the poster to be some kind of a revolutionary.

When I started posting here a year ago, people were posting stuff about taking up arms and going to the hills of Arkansas to fight guerrilla warfare, etc. This is on that kind of level.

Impulse97: Go out and do some reading. If you want reading lists, they're available here or ask and you will be provided. Just be aware of, or ask for, the political affiliation of people who make suggestions for you to read.

RED DAVE

[yobbos1]

Find and form yourself a group of like minded individuals. Avoid weapons of any kind (at the outset). If you like use paramilitary uniforms free of insignias and rank but not publicly at first. Distribute reliable information to the public at large, particularly educational facilities, libraries etc. in a non threatening way. By non threatening, I mean non threatening to the authorities, you don't want to be shut down or infiltrated. Educate, educate, educate. Take your time and be patient. Nothing will be accomplished over night, particularly in the USA.

[Obs]

Have you taken into consideration the fact that you're 13?

[RED DAVE]

Find and form yourself a group of like minded individuals. Avoid weapons of any kind (at the outset). If you like use paramilitary uniforms free of insignias and rank but not publicly at first. Distribute reliable information to the public at large, particularly educational facilities, libraries etc. in a non threatening way. By non threatening, I mean non threatening to the authorities, you don't want to be shut down or infiltrated. Educate, educate, educate. Take your time and be patient. Nothing will be accomplished over night, particularly in the USA.Fucking dumb shit. This is what I'm talking about when I talk about extreme political immaturity.

Educate yourself and any friends or comrades you have first. Avoid uniforms at all cost: they have no place on the Left. Revolution is not Halloween trick or treating.

Many comrades will criticize this work I'M posting below, but it's a good place to start. The author was an independent socialist. Towards the end of his life, he drifted a bit to the right and became an independent radical scholar, but he never abandoned socialism.

THE TWO SOULS OF SOCIALISM (http://www.marxists.org/archive/draper/1966/twosouls/)

RED DAVE

[Impulse97]

RD, Whats your issue? Does it make you feel better to be an arse?

I don't claim to know everything. I've done so much reading the past 6 months I never want to touch a book again.

Last time I checked this was the learning section. I kind of expected a calm classroom style discussion/ environment. Instead I get the catholic version and every time I ask a question I get smacked with a ruler.:hammersickle::che::hammersickle:

[RED DAVE]

RD, Whats your issue? Does it make you feel better to be an arse?What's your issue that you would even think of forming Red Guards in your neighborhood?


I don't claim to know everything. I've done so much reading the past 6 months I never want to touch a book again.Depends on what you've been reading. If what you've read would lead you to forming Red Guards in your neighborhood, I think you might be reading some kind of left-wing version of Harry Potter.


Last time I checked this was the learning section. I kind of expected a calm classroom style discussion/ environment. Instead I get the catholic version and every time I ask a question I get smacked with a ruler.:hammersickle::che::hammersickle:Of course it is, and I'm trying to teach you something. Do you want to learn or do you want to complain? Do you want your fantasies reinforced or do you want some genuine political knowledge. Avada kedavra or the working class?

RED DAVE

[Proukunin]

by making groups and stalls first. You cant just go right out into revolution. It takes time. You have to go through the process of building ACTIVE members and supporters to actually make a difference. You have to campaign to get your message out before going straight militant and expecting to get success out of 7-8 people. To have a 'red guard' would take thousands of people to be successful, and maybe more than that.

[scarletghoul]

Does anyone see the extraordinary level of political immaturity
The thread is posted in Learning.

[Apoi_Viitor]

What's funny is that no where in the OP's post did he even make it remotely implicit he wanted to start an 'armed insurrection' or a 'socialist army', rather it seemed he simply wanted to create a group that helps the community.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Molotov cocktails are 1. traditional weapons of anti-communist reactionaries (the name comes from throwing them at molotov's tanks in Finland)

Finns who threw petrol bombs at invading Soviets during the Winter War were "reactionaries"?

[RED DAVE]

The thread is posted in Learning.I'm aware of that. But even so, it starts out and has run at a very low level politically.

A little background:

RED GUARDS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Guards_%28People%27s_Republic_of_China%29#Orig ins)

RED DAVE

[Impulse97]

I'm aware of that. But even so, it starts out and has run at a very low level politically.

...

When I can quote Das Kapital word for word, front to back I'll give you a call.:hammersickle::che::hammersickle:

[RED DAVE]

I'm aware of that. But even so, it starts out and has run at a very low level politically.
When I can quote Das Kapital word for word, front to back I'll give you a call.:hammersickle::che::hammersickle:Hurry up: quiz on Monday. :D

RED DAVE

[AnarchoCommunistEyepatch]

I'd suggest organising things beneficial to the community and while you are doing it dispersing your political ideas. There is no reason why at the same time you shouldn't arm and train for thr revolution. You could serve as a protest guard, protecting protesters and striking workers from police violence.

[Crimson Commissar]

Finns who threw petrol bombs at invading Soviets during the Winter War were "reactionaries"?
Fighting against an army trying to bring liberation to a country oppressed by capitalism makes you a reactionary.

[Obs]

Finns who threw petrol bombs at invading Soviets during the Winter War were "reactionaries"?

Yes. Odd to see an anarchist defending violent conservative nationalists. Contrary to some anarchist doctrines, throwing improvised weapons does not make you progressive.


Edit for constructive content:

OP, if you want to be an organiser and do something good for your community while spreading the message, a uniformed pseudo-militia is not the way to go. If you can, find some likeminded individuals in your area (this itself will be a monumental task) and work together on finding ways to get your message out, and help out where you can. That way, you can make sure that your working class neighbourhoods will get an image of communists as helpful and open, rather than abstract historic figures.

If you have any hopes of being taken seriously, I'd advise waiting until you're older, though.

[REVLEFT'S BIEGGST MATSER TROL]

Shame on the people laughing or attacking at the orginal poster.

We should be outside, working to lift the community and making strong leftist groups to defend it from attack, fascists and so on. We only need look at the sucesses of Mao's red guards in China or the Black Panthers to see how the left, sucessfully militarised can become a strong force.

The opposition to the task building of a revolutionary army and the revolutionary militarism nessacary to sustain it in hardship and struggle is, I feel, symptomatic of the petty bourgeious individualism leftism is infected with.

[RED DAVE]

I'd suggest organising things beneficial to the communityWhat do you mean by this specifically? How do you distinguish this from charity work or social work?


and while you are doing it dispersing your political ideas.Which political ideas?


There is no reason why at the same time you shouldn't arm and train for thr revolution.There is every reason why you should not "arm and train" at this juncture. It's adventurism and is likely to get you busted an in jail as soon as someone informs on you.


You could serve as a protest guard, protecting protesters and striking workers from police violence.Unless you specifically approach other groups and get an agreement, to do this is provocative. In the case of protesters, an armed group will provoke bloodshed. In the case of unions, the last thing they want right now is a paramilitary group anywhere near a strike.

Think and study about these things, Comrades. Political protest, organizing, union work, has a long history in the US and other countries, none of which has anything to do with free-lance organized groups. Top get beck to the OP, the Red Guards are the last group that anyone would ever want to copy.

RED DAVE

[Luís Henrique]

There have been left militias in the past. Stalinist militias and social-democrat militias (so don't fool yourselves that social-democrats are uncapable of doing that kind of "action" in any situations).

They have always been the subproduct of well organised and well established working class parties; I don't know of any one that was created ex-nihilo as start for working class organisations.

They have also been dependent on a general political situation that does not exist in the United States today (arguably it doesn't exist in any country at this moment): a situation of deep crisis and illegitimacy of the State, which lost the ability to enforce its monopoly of violence.

And, finally, they have been extremely ineffective. In fact, they may have actually helped the rise of fascism, as their street dispute with fascist militias somehow legitimated the role of fascists in renewing the State by illegal means.

Luís Henrique

[AnarchoCommunistEyepatch]

What do you mean by this specifically? How do you distinguish this from charity work or social work?

You don't really distinguish it to any great deal, just helping people downtrodden and exploited by capitalism, feeding the homeless etc.


Which political ideas?

Well the ideas of and the ideas adhered to by whoever is in the group really, of course it would be lovely if Impulse97 chose to disperse my ideas but that's probably unlikely:p.


There is every reason why you should not "arm and train" at this juncture. It's adventurism and is likely to get you busted an in jail as soon as someone informs on you.

Well i'm hardly suggesting public military drills, but study of tactics, a few simple plans for certain situations, if Impulse97 is willing to take the risk of being imprisoned because he wants to have a militia ready for the revolution then that is his risk to take, i thought america had a constitutional thing about forming militias? Certainly backed by the public image of charitable work and bloc parties they would have something of a case in court. I'm no expert in US law so i'm probably not the person to go to on this one.


Unless you specifically approach other groups and get an agreement, to do this is provocative. In the case of protesters, an armed group will provoke bloodshed. In the case of unions, the last thing they want right now is a paramilitary group anywhere near a strike.

I'm not suggesting turning up packing an AK-47:p. What i mean by this is to form a front line of people who are willing to push back police lines when they get aggressive, thereby preventing or mitigating injury to peaceful protesters. I'd suggest these people wear hard hats and other forms of armour but try to avoid looking like a parmilitary group as much as possible because you are right, in the current climate this would just exacerbate things.


Think and study about these things, Comrades. Political protest, organizing, union work, has a long history in the US and other countries, none of which has anything to do with free-lance organized groups. Top get beck to the OP, the Red Guards are the last group that anyone would ever want to copy.

I think we've all realised that the OP made a mistake in using the term Red Guards and in fact simply wanted to establish a militant left wing group that could raise class consciousness in his community. The unions in america and the world are generally reduced to arguing on pay and conditions, i know that in the UK politically motivated union strikes are prohibited by law, even if it is not so in America the unions must still be entrenched and its leaders have a vested interest in the continuation of capitalism. I do not suggest that Impulse97 and his group members cease using Political protest and organisation, i don't think anyone has, one can quite easily do both while forming a "free-lance" group, all i am suggesting is an organisation of the more militant people in these protests and organisations to lead and support the more direct action based protests, occupations and the like.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Yes. Odd to see an anarchist defending violent conservative nationalists. Contrary to some anarchist doctrines, throwing improvised weapons does not make you progressive.


LOL when did I defend them? I was asking a simple question.

I find it pretty hard to blame anyone for fighting back when foreign soldiers start marching through their backyards, regardless of whatever so-called good intentions the invaders may have.


Fighting against an army trying to bring liberation to a country oppressed by capitalism makes you a reactionary.

Or alternatively it can be seen as a crass move of realpolitik by the Soviet leaders to create a buffer zone between the USSR and encroaching Nazi influence in Scandanavia.

[RED DAVE]

Shame on the people laughing or attacking at the orginal poster.Let's see what you're talking about.


We should be outside, working to lift the communityWhat do you mean by that? Sounds like liberal social work.


and making strong leftist groups to defend it from attack, fascists and so on.How do you build such groups? How are these groups connected to the working class?


We only need look at the sucesses of Mao's red guards in ChinaWhat successes; the Red Guards were tools of various factions of the CCP.


or the Black Panthers to see how the left, sucessfully militarised can become a strong force.The Panthers were rapidly crushed by the state. Their "military" tactics were posturing, which snapped back in their faces.


The opposition to the task building of a revolutionary army and the revolutionary militarism nessacary to sustain it in hardship and struggle is, I feel, symptomatic of the petty bourgeious individualism leftism is infected with.The fantasy of a revolutionary army and revolutionary militarism is a fantasy that comes from reading too many comic books.

Learn some history and politics before you give out advice to young comrades.

RED DAVE

[Rusty Shackleford]

If there is a high amount of foreclosures in your area, look into that. organize around that, build solidarity with the proletarianized middle-class.

is there a large amount of unemployed? look into it. organize around that.

are police a bunch of dicks? organize around that.

are there looming budget cuts? abuse of the homeless? shitty politicians? closing factories?

picketing workers? disgruntled workers? union events? IWW or any other union organizing? give em a hand. (added in due to how much i seemed to piss Red Dave off because of an omission by mistake)

find a niche and build out of that but for god sake dont dress up in a uniform, slap a red armband on and buy a cheap ass mosin nagant and call yourself a red guard. if theres nothing to guard then whats the point? also, guns in public draw the ire of pretty much everyone.

[RED DAVE]

If there is a high amount of foreclosures in your area, look into that. organize around that, build solidarity with the proletarianized middle-class.

is there a large amount of unemployed? look into it. organize around that.

are police a bunch of dicks? organize around that.

are there looming budget cuts? abuse of the homeless? shitty politicians? closing factories?

find a niche and build out of that but for god sake dont dress up in a uniform, slap a red armband on and buy a cheap ass mosin nagant and call yourself a red guard. if theres nothing to guard then whats the point? also, guns in public draw the ire of pretty much everyone.Fabulous. Not a mention at all of working in, say, union organizing drives like that of the IWW, where a few hard-working volunteers might actually make a difference.

RED DAVE

[Amphictyonis]

Living in the moment brings you a sense of reverence for all of life's blessings.

Partake of some of life's sweet pleasures. And yes, get comfortable with yourself.

The big secret in life is that there is no big secret. Whatever your goal, you can get there if you're willing to work.
Revolutionary Confucius?

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

LOL! Just LOL!

[Rusty Shackleford]

Fabulous. Not a mention at all of working in, say, union organizing drives like that of the IWW, where a few hard-working volunteers might actually make a difference.

RED DAVE


oh come on i wrote this while i was getting ready for work. jesus.

[RED DAVE]

Fabulous. Not a mention at all of working in, say, union organizing drives like that of the IWW, where a few hard-working volunteers might actually make a difference.
oh come on i wrote this while i was getting ready for work. jesus.And you managed to avoid any reference to the working class, except unemployed workers.

Oh well.

RED DAVE

[Fawkes]

Fabulous. Not a mention at all of working in, say, union organizing drives like that of the IWW, where a few hard-working volunteers might actually make a difference.

RED DAVE

And is there something wrong with any of the things they did mention?

[RED DAVE]

If there is a high amount of foreclosures in your area, look into that. organize around that, build solidarity with the proletarianized middle-class.

is there a large amount of unemployed? look into it. organize around that.

are police a bunch of dicks? organize around that.

are there looming budget cuts? abuse of the homeless? shitty politicians? closing factories?

picketing workers? disgruntled workers? union events? IWW or any other union organizing? give em a hand. (added in due to how much i seemed to piss Red Dave off because of an omission by mistake)

find a niche and build out of that but for god sake dont dress up in a uniform, slap a red armband on and buy a cheap ass mosin nagant and call yourself a red guard. if theres nothing to guard then whats the point? also, guns in public draw the ire of pretty much everyone.
And is there something wrong with any of the things they did mention?No, but in the absence of existing working class movements, such organizing is difficult, time-consuming and liable to yield very small results.

Comrades, I am not a cynic. But I have seen people burned out by throwing themselves into various projects, working like demons, and then, when political results were not forthcoming, drifting away from politics. So-called community organizing, in various forms, is a trap. It may look good, idealistic, amenable to enthusiasm, etc. But it's more, especially in the absence of existing mass movements, a swamp to drown in.

I urge younger comrade to study the history of left-wing organizing and see how it's done. Yes, we can always learn new ways, but there are many old ways, such as union work (not armed guards) that are still effective. And there are many old ways that are a swift road out of politics due to exhaustion.

The Red Guards and the Black Panthers are excellent negative examples.

RED DAVE

[Dimentio]

How would I go about this?

Would they be armed as a People's Militia? Or a service group who helps the community? Both?

What about uniforms? Ranks?

What about recruitment?

I'm really looking for any and all ideas on the matter. If you have an idea feel free to pm with it.

I want to form a group that will put a good face on Socialism. One that people can look at and say 'Those Guardsmen are really cool/trustworthy/beneficial society etc. etc.' and thus help change the negative stigma associated with leftism.

Thanks.:hammersickle::che::hammersickle:

In 2003, a group of Swedish teenagers tried to do that. They called their group "Authoritarian Socialism"/"The Maoist-Trotskyist Unity Front"/"The Fifth Sword". It fell to pieces quite quick. Their idea was to send a delegation to DPRK to acquire weapons to "liberate" Sweden.

Idiots.

[hardlinecommunist]

A few months ago I saw signs going up encouraging people to enlist in the FREEDOM GAURD.

That's right, the FREEDOM GAURD.
What state was this in

[Obs]

Or alternatively it can be seen as a crass move of realpolitik by the Soviet leaders to create a buffer zone between the USSR and encroaching Nazi influence in Scandanavia.

You're right, let's not defend ourselves from invading fascists.