Brave girl standing up to Zionists.

[Palingenisis]

SQyIKyd2gqA

What needs to be said?

[Havet]

What needs to be said?

Well, she's not the only one standing up

[Palingenisis]

Another inside into the Zionist mentality...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tW1-_JmXQt0&feature=related

Of course they are "brown barbarians" who need the civilizing mission right?

That seems to be the attitude of the Pro-Zionists.

[#FF0000]

Well, she's not the only one standing up

She's jumping in front of guns, so.

[Palingenisis]

She's jumping in front of guns, so.

Its life afrimming to see some one stand up to the ComradeMan's of this world.

[freepalestine]

Another inside into the Zionist mentality...

tW1-_JmXQt0.well one thing this vid and others shows-is that the IOF arent about the security of the isreali state-but gaining more land and ETHNIC CLEANSING-!!!!

[ComradeMan]

Its life afrimming to see some one stand up to the ComradeMan's of this world.

Because I am an IDF "border" guard or because the IDF soldier supports the one-state solution with equal rights for all?

Why don't you fuck off with your anti-semitism and your nationalism.

[#FF0000]

What did Palingenesis say that was anti-Semitic?

Was it the "IDF are pigs" thing because, well, IDF are pigs.

[ComradeMan]

What did Palingenesis say that was anti-Semitic?.

What did I ever say that was Zionistic?

Seeing as that video is quite old and to balance the argument too- no one is justifying the IDF but had it been Hamas they would have probably killed her or beat her to death.

http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2008/07/29/occupied-palestinian-territories-new-arrests-highlight-abuses-hamas-fatah

Human Rights Watch investigated two cases where al-Qassam Brigades members detained individuals and beat them before letting them go. One 35-year-old man had four fractures in one leg, a gunshot wound in the other, and a fractured arm. He was unconscious when visited by Human Rights Watch on July 28, awaiting Israeli government permission to be transferred to Israel for medical care.

In an apparent retaliatory move, West Bank security forces detained up to 100 persons suspected of Hamas ties, about half of them in the Nablus area. Among those detained are reportedly academics and local government officials, some of whom have been released. West Bank human rights activists said that one Hamas man in Nablus was beaten badly enough during his arrest to require hospitalization. Over the past year, West Bank authorities have closed dozens of organizations suspected of Hamas ties.
........

[#FF0000]

Seeing as that video is quite old and to balance the argument too- no one is justifying the IDF but had it been Hamas they would have probably killed her or beat her to death. Well, 1, you didn't answer my question. You just asserted she was an anti-semite and didn't explain why.

and 2, it doesn't matter what hamas would do and people think you are pro-israel because you do things like this all the time.

"well sure israel did this but EGYPT DOES THIS YOU HYPOCRITE"
"SURE IDF IS BAD BUT WHAT ABOUT HAMAS?"

Unless someone is saying "Israel is bad to Palestinians and Egypt is good to Palestinians" or something then there's no reason to bring Egypt up, see?

[ComradeMan]

Well, 1, you didn't answer my question. You just asserted she was an anti-semite and didn't explain why.

As is practically every post by myself or Krimskrams "trolled" with assertions of being Zionists....

She asserted that the IDF soldier = ComradeMan, so judging from the recent shit she left on my profile page and general tendencies I assert she is anti-semitic.


and 2, it doesn't matter what hamas would do and people think you are pro-israel because you do things like this all the time.

But,,, but.... that's what other people do? I thought that's what we did... Like when there was a post about the harsh treatment of Palestinians in other nations, not Israel, and it was brought back to Israel and the original points were completely ignored.... :crying: Like saying Palestinians are treated badly in Arab/Islamic nations and that's Israel's fault... that's a bit hypocritical, but you didn't call that one.


"well sure israel did this but EGYPT DOES THIS YOU HYPOCRITE"

Yeah but Egypt is not in Israel whereas Gaza and the West Bank form part of the "territory", let's say, that is disputed. What is irritating is that there is no critique whatsoever of Hamas. I don't see Youtube videos of Hamas shooting striking Palestinian workers for example, nor do I see some people here posting about the shit that goes down withing Gaza and the West Bank where faction fighting between Hamas and Fatah has claimed many Palestinian lives.

That's pretty hypocritical.

Why don't people here do something leftist for a change and perhaps support Hadash?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9d/Hadash.jpg (http://www.revleft.com/wiki/File:Hadash.jpg)

[#FF0000]

As practically every post by myself or Krimskrams gets trolled with assertions of being Zionists. She asserted that the IDF soldier = ComradeMan, so judging from the shit she left on my profile page and general tendencies I assert she is anti-semitic.

well yeah I would understand Krim because he joined the forum and immediately caused a ruckus over his sorta tepid defense of Israel, and you sorta kinda defend Israel a lot.


But,,, but.... that's what other people do? I thought that's what we did... Like when there was a post about the harsh treatment of Palestinians in other nations, not Israel and it was brought back to Israel and the original points were ignored.... :crying:


You mean that thread about Lebanon where the first person to mention Israel was you when you said everyone was a hypocrite for being mean to Israel but not to Lebanon? Yeah, cause everyone in that thread got kinda up in arms because you just assumed that people who were critical of Israel wouldn't (for whatever reason) be critical of the treatment of Palestinian refugees in Egypt, Lebanon etc etc. It was a baseless and incorrect assumption, and I know this because I know the plight of Palestinian refugees has been brought up before.


What is irritating is that there is no critique whatsoever of Hamas. I don't see Youtube videos of Hamas shooting striking Palestinian workers for example, nor do I see some people here posting about the shit that goes down withing Gaza and the West Bank where faction fighting between Hamas and Fatah has claimed many Palestinian lives.

Yeah I agree that Hamas are some anti-working class wankers and people are kind of silly to throw them support in the name of anti-imperialism.

I don't know where people get the idea that the Working Class is going to get anywhere if people who are supposed to be "the most conscious and militant" of the class are playing as pawns in the realpolitik of different national ruling classes.

[freepalestine]

As is practically every post by myself or Krimskrams "trolled" with assertions of being Zionists.... well i can't speak for others,but you have been quite pro-isreal in the past.not so much as now.



She asserted that the IDF soldier = ComradeMan, so judging from the recent shit she left on my profile page and general tendencies I assert she is anti-semitic.well i dont know what the iof+comrademan is about.maybe shes winding you up?
not that you've ever done that,
as for being racist ,prove it rather than losin yer head.
because it just looks like your trying to get her banned.



But,,, but.... that's what other people do? I thought that's what we did... Like when there was a post about the harsh treatment of Palestinians in other nations, not Israel, and it was brought back to Israel and the original points were completely ignored.... :crying: Like saying Palestinians are treated badly in Arab/Islamic nations and that's Israel's fault... that's a bit hypocritical, but you didn't call that one.
hmm.says a lot that. nothing was ignored



Yeah but Egypt is not in Israel whereas Gaza and the West Bank form part of the "territory", let's say, that is disputed. What is irritating is that there is no critique whatsoever of Hamas. I don't see Youtube videos of Hamas shooting striking Palestinian workers for example, nor do I see some people here posting about the shit that goes down withing Gaza and the West Bank where faction fighting between Hamas and Fatah has claimed many Palestinian lives.

That's pretty hypocritical.

Why don't people here do something leftist for a change and perhaps support Hadash?i have posted several articles criticising hamas and the p.a.-
obviously thats what its all about ,and that post proved it ,blatantly that your a isreali apologist-for all that can be said about every other place,you never criticise isreal,aprt from the "i'm not a zionist"line
as for using a term such as "disputed territories"-that is the isreali term for the 'occupied territories'

[ComradeMan]

well i can't speak for others,but you have been quite pro-isreal in the past.not so much as now.

Exactly where?


well i dont know what the iof+comrademan is about.maybe shes winding you up?
not that you've ever done that,
as for being racist ,prove it rather than losin yer head.
because it just looks like your trying to get her banned.

Saying that anti-semitism is not anti-semitism when directed at Israelis because genetically most Israelis are turkic/khazar in origin is pretty damn racist and anti-semitic on a couple of levels. It's also the sort of thing you'd expect on S.Front or JewWatch to be honest, not RevLeft.


hmm.says a lot that. nothing was ignored

No critique of the Lebanese government(s) was attempted, you instantly jumped into the Israel argument.... says a lot that.


i have posted several articles criticising hamas and the p.a.-obviously thats what its all about ,and that post proved it ,blatantly that your a isreali apologist-for all that can be said about every other place,you never criticise isreal,aprt from the "i'm not a zionist"line

So that would be about 1:1000 ratio, practically the entire electronic intifada is posted by you with little personal analysis or comment.


as for saying using a term such as "disputed territories"-that sounds like zionist terminology to me ..

Well then Dr House would say you are an idiot- they are territories and they are disputed. If you want to read stuff into things that says more about you.
------

There is no win for leftists in this conflict from a leftist position. The only solution from a socialist point of view is a single state solution- something I have always supported.

[ComradeMan]

well yeah I would understand Krim because he joined the forum and immediately caused a ruckus over his sorta tepid defense of Israel, and you sorta kinda defend Israel a lot.

Where have we ever defended the actions of the Israeli government?
Baseless.



You mean that thread about Lebanon where the first person to mention Israel was you when you said everyone was a hypocrite for being mean to Israel but not to Lebanon?.....

Err.... who brought up the right of return immediately? Which of course brings the whole thing back to Israel and actually ignores the situation at hand.


Yeah I agree that Hamas are some anti-working class wankers and people are kind of silly to throw them support in the name of anti-imperialism. I don't know where people get the idea that the Working Class is going to get anywhere if people who are supposed to be "the most conscious and militant" of the class are playing as pawns in the realpolitik of different national ruling classes.

I don't know where some here get the idea that supporting militant nationalists that pay lip service to the left (until they get in power) actually serves the working class either, whereas support for the communist and socialist front Hadash (who don't kill civilians or shoot striking workers) is somehow seen as not "cool" enough. Perhaps it's because they don't have such funky rhetoric to appease the worrying amount of violence fetishists we seem to have at RevLeft.

As an aside, it's also interesting to note that in the past some of the same "Maoists" who are so violently anti-Israel suddenly change their story when it comes to the occupation of Tibet.

Hypocrisy.

[#FF0000]

Where have we ever defended the actions of the Israeli government?
Baseless.

Nah you never come right out and say it but, like I said, you do say "well yeah but what about Hamas" or something like that. Maybe you don't intend it but it seems like you're trying to lessen the blame or whatever on Israel by pointing to something someone else did.

[ComradeMan]

Nah you never come right out and say it but, like I said, you do say "well yeah but what about Hamas" or something like that. Maybe you don't intend it but it seems like you're trying to lessen the blame or whatever on Israel by pointing to something someone else did.

No, it's called trying to be objective. There is a whole load of shit on both sides and a lot of historical stuff too. The one sidedness of some posters here creates an ahistorical picture of the whole situation which thus creates an obstacle in any meaningful analysis of the situation.

Come on, I'm sure a dose of historical materialism could also be applied. ;)

[Obs]

No, it's called trying to be objective. There is a whole load of shit on both sides and a lot of historical stuff too. The one sidedness of some posters here creates an ahistorical picture of the whole situation which thus creates an obstacle in any meaningful analysis of the situation.

Come on, I'm sure a dose of historical materialism could also be applied. ;)
Except this is a thread about a video featuring the IDF and you were the only one to mention Hamas and Hamas didn't even feature in the video and the intention was solely to create a thread about this video which is about the IDF and not Hamas and Hamas is therefore totally irrelevant to the discussion which is why your mentioning Hamas makes you look like a fool at best, and an apologist for Zionism at worst.

EDIT: Also, I wish I had the guts to walk up to someone and say "okay, sure, go ahead and shoot me in the face."

[ComradeMan]

Except this is a thread about a video featuring the IDF and you were the only one to mention Hamas and Hamas didn't even feature in the video and the intention was solely to create a thread about this video which is about the IDF and not Hamas and Hamas is therefore totally irrelevant to the discussion which is why your mentioning Hamas makes you look like a fool at best, and an apologist for Zionism at worst.

EDIT: Also, I wish I had the guts to walk up to someone and say "okay, sure, go ahead and shoot me in the face."

This is a very old video on youtube that was posted immediately after another thread on the welfare of Palestinians in Lebanon- the intent is obvious.

Being identified as an IDF soldier ergo Zionist is also not fair, especially in a thread to which I hadn't even responded. These threads at RevLeft do not exist in isolation as you should well know, so the disingenuous attempts of some users here are quite obvious.

The fact of the matter is that the IDF soldier didn't actually do anything in the end and probably wouldn't have done anyway with someone filming it.;)

[RGacky3]

As far as this girl, that takes a lot of bravery, a lot of strength, many western activists have been murdered in Palestine (not caught in crossfire, murdered), so it was very plausable that they just shoot her, and there would be NO reaction from the western governments.

This sort of stuff really is positive though, put a camera on it.

As far as Comrademan. I don't think Comrademan is a Zionist, not in that sense, i think he suffers from CNN syndrome, or Obama syndrome, gotta call it even dispite the facts, at least a little bit, but he's never really said anything that would show him to be a Zionist (trying to call it even is not Zionist, its wrong, but not Zionist).

BUT


No, it's called trying to be objective. There is a whole load of shit on both sides and a lot of historical stuff too. The one sidedness of some posters here creates an ahistorical picture of the whole situation which thus creates an obstacle in any meaningful analysis of the situation.


Its one sided because the violence is largly one sided, when you look at the numbers, and the actual situation, its HUGELY Isreali violence, calling it even makes no sense, keep in mind when you have an oppressor oppressed situation, the oppressor always must have more responsibility because he has more power and more choices.

Its like a guy that beats his chained up dog every day for a year, then the dog bites him, are you gonna call that even?

The porblem is, this is not a situation like a bar fight, where one guy punches and another guy hits back, the palestinians are IN PRISONED, almost literally, and those who are not are being systematically dispossesed and oppressed, all this goes along with systematic state terror from the Isreali government. Everything that happens must be taken in that context.

[ComradeMan]

Its one sided because the violence is largly one sided, when you look at the numbers, and the actual situation, its HUGELY Isreali violence, calling it even makes no sense, keep in mind when you have an oppressor oppressed situation, the oppressor always must have more responsibility because he has more power and more choices..

Gacky... there is a lot of shit that goes down against Palestinians, no one is denying the Israeli state's role, but there seems to be a lack of knowledge about all the shit that others do too. That's what irritates me. Organisations that claim to represent the Palestinians have actually killed a lot of fellow Palestinians too.

[RGacky3]

but there seems to be a lack of knowledge about all the shit that others do too. That's what irritates me. Organisations that claim to represent the Palestinians have actually killed a lot of fellow Palestinians too.

Its like the pirates and emperors situation, sure there are palestinian organizations that have killed palestinians, but they PALE in comparison to the Isreali terror, your trying to call it even, but its not, not at all.

[ComradeMan]

Its like the pirates and emperors situation, sure there are palestinian organizations that have killed palestinians, but they PALE in comparison to the Isreali terror, your trying to call it even, but its not, not at all.

But some here support those organisations, furthermore those organisations use the people they abuse in their rhetoric and propaganda and claim to be their liberators etc. That's the difference.

[RGacky3]

But some here support those organisations, furthermore those organisations use the people they abuse in their rhetoric and propaganda and claim to be their liberators etc. That's the difference.

Are you talking about Hamas?

[L.A.P.]

Why don't you fuck off with your anti-semitism and your nationalism.

Quite honestly, this statement disgusts me.

[L.A.P.]

As an aside, it's also interesting to note that in the past some of the same "Maoists" who are so violently anti-Israel suddenly change their story when it comes to the occupation of Tibet.

Hypocrisy.

I don't change my story when it comes to Tibet.

[ComradeMan]

Quite honestly, this statement disgusts me.

Why? The person in question has posted anti-semitic and nationalistic stuff all over the place.


I don't change my story when it comes to Tibet.

You might not but a lot of people suddenly backtrack when it comes to Tibet- as has been seen here at RevLeft when the issue has been raised too.

[ddof5]

i do not see how being a provacator is considered being "brave"

she knows very well that the soldier is not allowed to shoot her, and all she is doing is putting her life and the soldier's lives in danger.

[#FF0000]

i do not see how being a provacator is considered being "brave"

she knows very well that the soldier is not allowed to shoot her, and all she is doing is putting her life and the soldier's lives in danger.

Being a human shield isn't being a provacatuer. She's putting her life in danger, but the other soldiers? Yeah, no. That's a peaceful protest they're firing on.