wtf aaaaa hedonism

[black magick hustla]

when i was a dumb teenager i was all about defending a hedonistic lifestyle and yea down for the drugs and the booze and the sex and whatever. however, i've been increasingly dubious about that type of mindset and my feelings for it was more in relation to my teenage years heroes, which were rimbaud, baudelaire, maldoror, and de sade than any real thought i placed to it.

now that i am a grownass man and i am less dumb i've thought a bit about why i dont enjoy those coop parties anymore, or why i dont enjoy the company of fellow psychonauts, etcetera. i think i came to the realization that most hedonistic druggies i know are actually really boring and self destructive and are all a dime a dozen. i went to a dumb dubstep party saturday and i could not enjoy myself in there at all. all my friends who i thought were utterly free when i was younger and stupider are all plagued with serious emotional problems. i've never met, for example, promiscous people that are emotionally stable. i am not defending a puritanical lifestyle, that is boring, but i've been questioning a lot the dumb assumptions i had before

what are your opinions about hedonism? i think a lot of people who are into revolutionary politics are all about it.

[Political_Chucky]

HA! Yeah for a little bit I was trying to live free, do more drugs then a fear & loathing movie, and have sex with many women....didn't turn out as I planned lol...but definitely your going to start fucking with your own head by trying to live a purely lush lifestyle.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I'm afraid I cannot sympathise, because my own hedonism is circumscribed by my current socioeconomic situation. I don't have any serious emotional or psychological problems, even after blasting my mind with a pharmacopeia of different chemicals.

Mind you, I haven't read any Rimbaud or De Sade; my philosophy of hedonism is mostly self-developed.

[black magick hustla]

i've blasted my mind with a ton of "pharmacopeia" too but imo it was a lot of times teenager science than popping pills to feel good

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

i've blasted my mind with a ton of "pharmacopeia" too but imo it was a lot of times teenager science than popping pills to feel good

I'm not sure what you mean by "teenager science", but some of my drug use had an exploratory aspect to it. Mushrooms are faaaar out maaan. :lol:

But yes, there's always the sheer pleasure of it. I always appreciate a nice pint of beer or a spliff.

It would be nice if I could do more things along the lines of camping, kayaking and shooting, but drugs, books and internet work out cheaper.

[John "Eh" MacDonald]

It would be nice if I could do more things along the lines of camping, kayaking and shooting, but drugs, books and internet work out cheaper.

It might be because im drunk but that has to be the best explanation of why the majority of drug users....use drugs.

time for bed!

[Lobotomy]

Isn't hedonism strictly the idea that pleasure is the main purpose in life? So one doesn't have to be constantly going to parties and doing a ton of drugs (ie- having an irresponsible lifestyle) to be a hedonist, I would think. One could just as easily have a simple life full of reading mechanical engineering books all day if that's what they enjoyed. That's how I've always thought of it anyway.

[Ele'ill]

The drugs and sex don't cause the emotional problems the emotional problems already exist. Drugs and sex are fun. When I see 'hedonism' used it's critical and I don't think it's anything more than sour grapes.

[Martin Blank]

Welcome to adulthood, where you find there are fun things to do that don't involve massive destruction of brain cells, skin cells, your internal organs or your sanity. I still enjoy weed, but it's as far as I go these days ... and it keeps me sane.

[REVLEFT'S BIEGGST MATSER TROL]

Weird,

I've been having exactly the same "realisation" over the past year..although you put it much better than i could.

its weird, I used to think, in some disconnected fashion that it was totally possible to be free, drug using, promiscious etc, and not really have any "problems"..I mean, I don't want to say that purtianism or whatever is superior, but that people should question their motives or something.

I don't know, i'm very unclear on my thinking on all of this, its like I just feel emotionally there is something wierd or wrong about the hedonism I used to embrace. Which is a sentiment I would of found amusing in its quaintness 3 years ago.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

I'd say I have mixed feelings.

With the sexual promiscuity, that loses fun when you've done it for money. If other people like the promiscuity, good for them.

As for drugs, some are alright sometimes, but I won't touch opiates anymore because I don't want to go through withdraws ever again.

Parties? I've become more anti-social lately.

[black magick hustla]

The drugs and sex don't cause the emotional problems the emotional problems already exist. Drugs and sex are fun. When I see 'hedonism' used it's critical and I don't think it's anything more than sour grapes.

perhaps sensual hedonism is the refuge of fuckups, rather than hedonism turning people into fuckups. but every single promiscuous person ive met is fucked up in the head and ive met many. idk, especially women. maybe its because women are subject to more social scrutinity in their sexual lives and that fucks em up?

[black magick hustla]

let us remember that a lot of radicals argue for hedonism and let us also remember that radical fringe culture is a refuge of a shitton of crazies and depressed people

[black magick hustla]

"I don't think it's anything more than sour grapes."

have you ever lived in a punk house or in a co op? dont tell me a lot of them are not bad in the head

[#FF0000]

This thread reminds me of a a Kierkegaard quote I found in a book.

"In the bottomless ocean of pleasure,I have sounded in vain for a spot to cast an anchor. I have felt the almost irresistible power with which one pleasure drags another after it, the kind of adulterated enthusiasm which it is capable of producing, the boredom, the torment which follow."

I think indulgence is great every once in awhile but cheap thrills aren't as good as feeling fulfilment or whatever you feel when you do something great like read a good book or paint something good.

[Martin Blank]

+1

[Wanted Man]

what are your opinions about hedonism? i think a lot of people who are into revolutionary politics are all about it.

Well, they talk about it a lot on the internet.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Well my friends who didn't do that kind of stuff still have emotional and relationship problems and also tend to be boring. Hipsters and pseudo-intellectuals who like to put on a front that they are deep also tend to be boring. We live in boring and alienated (in both senses) times.

I think the thing about "psychonauts" and even some potheads I know that makes them dull and uninteresting is that many are using drugs to "search" for something truer or more meaningful. While I think some psychedelics do help some people to reflect on their lives in different ways or challenge some assumptions (hell on good LSD, your perceptions are so out of the normal and your brain connects things in such unusual ways you'll be questioning why apples are called apples and shit like that*).

Some of the disappointment people who approach things this way have is due to some idealist concepts about changing yourself or finding some universal truth inside your own drug-addled head. The "boring" acid-heads I knew at one point all fell in with a con-man posing as a guru (no shit, I swear) who ripped them off. It cause the main "psychonaut" to go into a deep depression after he was robbed and dumped by the "guru" and found out that his enlightened teacher also frequented prostitutes.

So while overdoing pot or any impairing drug (addictive or not) may lead some people to be boring because that becomes their main social activity, I don't think use of the drugs alone causes this. In my experience people who say that "weed" actually makes you smarter and is a cure all or people who think that a drug will improve their lives in a fundamental way are set-up for failure, disappointment and resulting problems. I've never been a spiritual person so I always approached mind-altering drugs as an interesting and sometimes insight-prompting other-times fear-inducing experience - but not as "enlightenment" or cure-all. So for me a little "hedonism" doesn't seem like such a bad thing in of itself - elevating hedonism to something more meaningful or significant is the problem.

But I hear you on the "growing up" thing. I wouldn't turn down doing something like that now - but only if I had the time to spare and usually I don't. I also hardly ever drink anymore even though I used to get wasted on Friday nights when I was younger... now I think, shit, I really don't want to sit around half of Saturday with a hangover because I want to use my free-time for other things.

This is why we need a Socialist Revolution: so I don't have to work so many hours and can have more free-time for a night of drinking now and then and maybe some LSD or E occasionally.:tt1:


*one time I was really blown away by what I suddenly thought was an artificial seperation between what we consider "inside a house" and "outside a house" because I was in a furnished outdoor patio.

[Quail]

perhaps sensual hedonism is the refuge of fuckups, rather than hedonism turning people into fuckups. but every single promiscuous person ive met is fucked up in the head and ive met many. idk, especially women. maybe its because women are subject to more social scrutinity in their sexual lives and that fucks em up?

I think it's often the other way round. A lot of women (well, and men probably) who are fucked up have sex to feel better. It seems to be fairly common among those that have been abused.

I think there's healthy hedonism and unhealthy hedonism. Getting fucked out of your brains all the time because you're unhappy is unhealthy, but the odd night of getting utterly off your head with friends because it's fun is healthy. I've done both, and I definitely prefer the latter.

[Il Medico]

Life is painful, thus the pursuit of pleasure is natural. Indulgence is the easiest way to bring about pleasure. And it is good as long as you don't rely on it completely. This may sound funny, but hedonism is best in moderation. Too much or too little, either way it will hurt you in the end.

[Meridian]

I agree with some of the posters here. No matter how cliché it may sound, to be honest I find that what I enjoy the most tends to be the things that I have thought for a while "I should do it", to get an accomplishment out of it. Usually it involves some work, of one kind or other.

Now, I do have rather hindering psychological problems, but I still dislike the idea of seeking fleeting pleasure to fill some apparent void, or to escape from reality for a moment. That is not to say I do not enjoy the occasional drink or smoke with close friends.

[Luís Henrique]

"Hedonism" is a word that makes little sence, unless you clearly define what it "pleasure".

From my experience, people derive pleasure from the most varied and diverse experiences. Sex is obvious, as also food, but there are people whose definition of "pleasure" is a quiet walk in the woods, and others whose fun is a rock and roll concert, with much dance, drugs, drinks, decibels, and hopefully some sex with a completely unknow person. And then there are those who think pleasure is reading Heidegger, or running ten miles, or lifting weight, or playing chess or sudoku. Who is to say who are right and who are wrong?

The only criterium out of sheer subjectivity that I can fathom is whether your pleasure is paid with painful collateral consequences. Hangovers, withdrawals, anyone?

Luís Henrique

[gorillafuck]

I don't see what's wrong with pursuing pleasure as long as your not over doing unhealthy things. Emotional problems in the people you know probably stem from the heavy drug use that's associated with a lot of hedonists, since doing far too many drugs is, well, bad for you.

[Niccolò Rossi]

Luís is on the ball.

Nic.

[ckaihatsu]

Who is to say who are right and who are wrong?


Me....





Sex


Right.





food


Okay.





a quiet walk in the woods


Um....





a rock and roll concert


Hells yeah!





dance


Only the nasty kind.





drugs


On the advice of counsel I respectfully refuse to answer this question.





drinks


Sure, but it's kinda crude....





decibels


If pertaining to the aforementioned rock and/or roll concert, then yes.





sex with a completely unknow person


(I don't want to spoil this one for you.)





reading Heidegger


Please. And you call yourself a hedonist???





running ten miles


Wrong.





lifting weight


For fun? Really? (File under "running ten miles".)





playing chess


Wrong, unless you win.





sudoku


Solitaire for nerds. Automatic wrong.





The only criterium out of sheer subjectivity that I can fathom is whether your pleasure is paid with painful collateral consequences. Hangovers, withdrawals, anyone?


You're not a true hedonist if you're going to ponder the "costs" -- not that I'm advising anything, of course....

[ckaihatsu]

perhaps sensual hedonism is the refuge of fuckups, rather than hedonism turning people into fuckups. but every single promiscuous person ive met is fucked up in the head and ive met many. idk, especially women. maybe its because women are subject to more social scrutinity in their sexual lives and that fucks em up?


Using your head isn't necessarily interpersonal, but emotional stuff pretty much certainly is.

[Bandito]

I'm not sure why people here automatically associate hedonism with drugs.
I surely enjoy drugs sometimes, but it's not them what makes my life purpose of enjoyment. I'm poor, but since I don't have a family to contribute to just yet, I put most of my funds into stuff I enjoy, and what I enjoy the most is traveling, drinking good stuff (I'm not a wine expert type of dipshit, but I like a fine drink once in a while), and eating well prepared food. Actually, cooking it is just another thing I enjoy and I put a lot of energy and time in that.
Also, I have my own fields of sheer enjoyment. Fishing alone with a bottle of whiskey is an ultimate pleasure, but so is drinking cheap wine with a bunch of people I love. Painting is something I also do, but that's also just my enjoyment- I rarely show (or keep, for that matter) the drawings and paintings I make.
Music is also a part of the pack I consider my hedonism. I'm not much of a poetry reader, but I do consider music lyrics a more modern way to express your feelings in a more multimedia type of standpoint.
Basically, what differs my view from the views of most of the people in this thread, is that I take my hedonism slowly. I really don't consider pumping pills as one of the biggest enjoyments in life.

[ckaihatsu]

I'm not sure why people here automatically associate hedonism with drugs.
I surely enjoy drugs sometimes, but it's not them what makes my life purpose of enjoyment. I'm poor, but since I don't have a family to contribute to just yet, I put most of my funds into stuff I enjoy, and what I enjoy the most is traveling, drinking good stuff (I'm not a wine expert type of dipshit, but I like a fine drink once in a while), and eating well prepared food. Actually, cooking it is just another thing I enjoy and I put a lot of energy and time in that.
Also, I have my own fields of sheer enjoyment. Fishing alone with a bottle of whiskey is an ultimate pleasure, but so is drinking cheap wine with a bunch of people I love. Painting is something I also do, but that's also just my enjoyment- I rarely show (or keep, for that matter) the drawings and paintings I make.
Music is also a part of the pack I consider my hedonism. I'm not much of a poetry reader, but I do consider music lyrics a more modern way to express your feelings in a more multimedia type of standpoint.
Basically, what differs my view from the views of most of the people in this thread, is that I take my hedonism slowly. I really don't consider pumping pills as one of the biggest enjoyments in life.


Also wrong.


x D


(Sorry.)


= )

[Os Cangaceiros]

LH and Bandito pretty much captured my thoughts on this subject. Specifically this:


I'm not sure why people here automatically associate hedonism with drugs.

(Or sex, booze etc.)

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

"Hedonism" is a word that makes little sence, unless you clearly define what it "pleasure".

My understanding was that pleasure is whatever one finds enjoyment doing. Sure, whatever one specifically finds pleasurable may be subjective to a degree, but subjective is not the same as nonsensical.

[ckaihatsu]

This may be counter-intuitive, but certain pleasures are stronger / more intense, while others are more refined.... This doesn't obliterate subjectivity / personal meaning, but it does mediate it....


('Stronger' = takes you more outside of your "comfort zone", 'refined' = requires more knowledge and/or experience, and judgment.)

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Being able to choose to pursue pleasure seems a lot better than being forced to deal with misery. No?

The main problem with hedonism (if we're describing it as trying to only do things which bring pleasure) is that it's impossible unless you've got home huge source of wealth stored up and don't have to worry about expenses. If you did, you probably wouldn't be complaining about it or even pondering the question to begin with.

[ckaihatsu]

Being able to choose to pursue pleasure seems a lot better than being forced to deal with misery. No?

The main problem with hedonism (if we're describing it as trying to only do things which bring pleasure) is that it's impossible unless you've got home huge source of wealth stored up and don't have to worry about expenses. If you did, you probably wouldn't be complaining about it or even pondering the question to begin with.


Good point -- hence the reason why we're revolutionaries...(!)


= )

[Luís Henrique]

Please. And you call yourself a hedonist???

Nope. I call myself a revolutionary.


You're not a true hedonist if you're going to ponder the "costs" -- not that I'm advising anything, of course....

Can't see why. In fact, the founder of hedonism as a philosophical school, Epicurus, emphasysed pondering the costs a lot. If you eat a dish of heavily peppered food for the twenty minutes pleasure it gives you, ignoring the fact that you will feel miserably for three days during to your popping haemorrhoids, then you are harebrained, not hedonistic...

Luís Henrique

[ckaihatsu]

Epicurus


What a puss...!


x D

[Ravachol]

I think the emptiness that emanates from contemporary 'hedonism' is because of the thin facade for commodity society that it is. Essentialy the hordes of droning 'hedonists' chasing bottle after bottle, sniff after sniff display the same behavior as the prozac-surpressed masses of people going on shopping sprees after their paycheck comes in, buying commodities simply for the sign value attached to them and the existential fullfillment that the act of consumption ought to give.

Commodity society reduces the whole of life to the economy, the sphere of production and consumption and the plethora of signs attached to these acts. As a result, social activity and existential fullfillment is condensed into these acts as well and the pinacle of the will to live becomes the frenzied climber of the corporate ladder and the sales-snipers at Harrods. Everything in commodity society is a mirror of it's economic base and resembles this base.

Thus, the chase for happiness in consumption, focussing on the boundless, limitless quantitative aspect that is so typical in contemporary hedonism is essentially a substitute for the qualitative enjoyment of an event.
The search for a qualitatively limitless life is something we should espouse but this is radically different from the mindless quantitative, self-destructive behavior that passes for hedonism.