Student protester jailed for throwing fire extinguisher

[bricolage]

A student who admitted throwing a fire extinguisher from the roof of a central London building during the student fees protests has been jailed.

Edward Woollard, 18, from Hampshire, was among protesters who broke into the Tory party headquarters and emerged on the roof on 10 November.

He was jailed for two years and eight months after admitting at an earlier hearing to committing violent disorder.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-12159581

[Omi]

Holy shit.

He shouldn't have thrown the thing (if it was indeed him) but 2 years and 8 months can be enough to totally destroy a young life. We should not support state repression against this person.

[Sasha]

jezus fucking christ....

[ed miliband]

Holy shit.

He shouldn't have thrown the thing (if it was indeed him) but 2 years and 8 months can be enough to totally destroy a young life. We should not support state repression against this person.

He was grassed up by... himself, so I presume it was him. It wasn't very intelligent to a) throw the fire extinguisher off the roof in the first place and b) admit to doing it, but this sentence is atrocious and I agree that we should not support this.

Horrible really.

[Sugar Hill Kevis]

It wasn't very intelligent to ... b) admit to doing it

To be fair, he'd already been identified in the media, it probably helped his sentencing that he came forward shortly. Inevitably some guy he went to high school with and wanted to cash in by identifying him to the Sun would have come forward had he not.

[ed miliband]

It seems his mum basically shopped him. Why would a parent do that?

[KurtFF8]

It's a serious sentence, but at the same time throwing a fire extinguisher from that height was indeed quite dangerous and easily could have seriously hurt or killed someone (and who knows who it could have hurt, he randomly threw it from it seems)

[Sasha]

It's a serious sentence, but at the same time throwing a fire extinguisher from that height was indeed quite dangerous and easily could have seriously hurt or killed someone (and who knows who it could have hurt, he randomly threw it from it seems)

i thought he trew it after the cops down stairs where beating other kids up, but yes, it was an stupid thing to do but giving him 2 years and 8 months is just as stupid

[Lunatic Concept]

But of course, the cops who pulled the disabled man off his wheelchair and beat the shit out of him twice will probably get off the hook completely :(

[FreeEire]

Its an extreme and inappropriate sentence. Of course this young man's actions were stupid, but equally I think its fair to say we've nearly all been caught up in the adrenaline of moments where we took potentially dangerous actions that we didn't really think through before carrying them out.

I've saw a lot of people who in my view committed more serious crimes against others walk away with probation or light sentences. And of course, I've saw wealthy bankers and their co-conspirators walk away literally scot free from the consequences of their actions which liquidated the money some were dependent on, and caused a wave of austerity attacks on the rest.

This quote really sums it up for me:

"I would ask those intent on causing violence and undermining those committed to peaceful protest to reflect on today's outcome."Its clearly aimed as a deterrent at activists who become involved in these protests, that if you try to up the tempo from what the state-sanctioned, ineffective student unions do, and you get caught in the act, well then you can expect to spend a good chunk of time inside.

If this was a normal offence, ie: if the young fella had thrown a fire extinguisher off the roof of a hotel after a massive booze up, or worse, used it to batter someone on the street the sentence would be a lot less. Its the political dimension to this action which has resulted in this sentence in my opinion.

[Quail]

I was just reading about this and wondered if anyone had posted it. Throwing a fire extinguisher off a roof was a stupid thing to do, but this is the kind of thing I really don't get the point of a prison sentence for. What's it going to achieve, teach him a lesson? Put other people off doing stupid things in the heat of the moment? 2 years 8 months is a long sentence and I just don't really see the need for it.

[bricolage]

What's it going to achieve, teach him a lesson? Put other people off doing stupid things in the heat of the moment?
I think the intended result, at the risk of sounding cospiratorial, is two-fold. First it might make people think twice about engaging getting physical with the police (probably because they are getting smacked by the police...) as it could end up with a jail sentence, secondly those who worry about getting caught up in the heat of the moment might well be likely to just not turn up to demonstrations. Obviously throwing the fire extinguisher was stupid but this isn't about punishing stupidity its about sending the same message that kettling does; stay off the streets.


Its the political deterrent to this action which has resulted in this sentence in my opinion.
Yes I would agree, in the same way if you tag football related onto a crime you can double the jail sentence the same applies for political related. I thought this post on libcom was pretty interesting in regards to sentencing;


The question of whether 2 years is excessive in some absolute sense, is normative. But relatively, it's not out of keeping with other sentencing. For the Poll Tax the average for Section 2 POA (violent disorder) was 2 years and Section 1 (riot) was 3 years (unless you were black, in which case you got 4 - I kid you not, without exception). Sentences for Bradford 2001 riot averaged more like 7 years for all charges, which was a major step up from the Poll Tax tariffs, but there has been a generalised tariff escalation over the last 20 years. Also virtually all the Bradford defendants were young working class Asian men.
For a violent disorder charge (that could have easily been bumped up to something equivalent to reckless endangerment - my UK law's a little rusty) in a serious Public Order event, 2 years in this day and age is on the lower end of what you might expect. Good thing yer lad's not an unemployed muslim youth from Bradford or he'd be looking at much more.
http://libcom.org/forums/news/edward-woollard-gets-32-months-prison-11012011

[psgchisolm]

Does the UK have anything against cruel and unusual punishment. I can't think of the words I'm looking for but I think you can get what I'm saying. 1 year probation would be enough I'd think

[Quail]

I think the intended result, at the risk of sounding cospiratorial, is two-fold. First it might make people think twice about engaging getting physical with the police (probably because they are getting smacked by the police...) as it could end up with a jail sentence, secondly those who worry about getting caught up in the heat of the moment might well be likely to just not turn up to demonstrations. Obviously throwing the fire extinguisher was stupid but this isn't about punishing stupidity its about sending the same message that kettling does; stay off the streets.
Sadly, that's probably the case, although how effective it will be as a deterrent is yet to be seen. Maybe I'm just projecting my feelings onto other people, but I don't think that people are going to be dissuaded too much from protesting. There's a lot of genuine anger, and I don't think the worry about getting arrested is going to put people off. I also don't think that people expect to get "caught up in the moment" before they go to a demo unless they're going there with the intention of causing a bit of trouble (for want of a better expression).

It's a shame to see a young person potentially losing a whole load of opportunities due to a politically motivated jail sentence.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

It's a fairly extreme sentence, within the confines of UK law.

In actual fact, a year or two in prison is probably what he deserves, but given that a comparable act not perpetrated against the state in the name of anti-governmental protest would probably have gotten off with a few months or community service, we can see quite clearly that this is an ideological, biased sentence handed down by the state, intended to show us all what could happen.

Ah, good old state repression. Bakunin would be rolling in his grave.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

There are two important lessons to be drawn from this:

1. Wear a fucking mask.
2. Practice yr aim.

[bailey_187]

feel sorry for him, hes probably going to get eaten alive in feltham

[KurtFF8]

I mean yes this sentence seems a bit much, and yes the cops are getting off comparatively, but I don't see this as a major issue to be outraged about.

The kid threw a fire extinguisher off of a very tall building, that's quite dangerous and not some "revolutionary act." It was more likely him getting caught up in the moment and doing something stupid.

The real problem here is that this particular incident will be pointed to by the British Right as evidence that the whole ordeal was perpetrated by young kids just out to mess things up.

Edit: and let's not forget that the majority of student protesters on the ground started chanting "stop throwing shit" after he threw the extinguisher.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

It's frustrating that when someone actually gets it together to attack authority in a way that might be effective, everyone derides it as "stupid". MORE THROWING FIRE EXTINGUISHERS. BETTER THROWING FIRE EXTINGUISHERS.

[bcbm]

It's frustrating that when someone actually gets it together to attack authority in a way that might be effective

not sure killing a cop with a fire extinguisher would've been very effective

[Rooster]

Pfft. He'd be lucky if he even serves 6 months. I reckon he'd get out on parole after 2 months.

[TC]

It's a serious sentence, but at the same time throwing a fire extinguisher from that height was indeed quite dangerous and easily could have seriously hurt or killed someone

So can, you know, driving an automobile, or hitting someone with a police baton. Far more frequently fatal.

The fact is that no one was hurt, that he didn't throw it at anyone or threaten anyone he just lobbed it.

Lets face it, his real crime was being an identifiable figure who freaked out some cowardly cops who want to be able to beat people up and sometime/s kill or maim them while feeling invincible. Under any other circumstances this would never have been prosecuted.

[JrR]

This means sending out a very clear message to anyone minded to behave in this way that an offence of this seriousness will not be tolerated.
Overly sentencing an individual to send out a "clear message" doesn't seem like something the punishment system is there for. I don't think anyone is defending his actions, but what about his future now? Especially when such a sentence would easily preventable. The judges can't regret it that much...

[Fabrizio]

He did an idiotic thing and his actions cannot be defended, but people do things equally dangerous every Friday night in every city in the UK and the cops don't even investigate it. To be honest he's been completely persecuted in order to scare people off from protesting. For a first offence which had no victims this is fucking ridiculous.

[Delenda Carthago]

The point is that this shit cannot go unanswered. People need to learn about it and understand what the State is capable of doing.Your voice should be heard.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

He did an idiotic thing and his actions cannot be defended [. . .]

What do you mean? He tried to hit a pig with a heavy object!
If that's not defensible, give the fuck up on revolution and go sit in a drum circle.

[PhoenixAsh]

What do you mean? He tried to hit a pig with a heavy object!
If that's not defensible, give the fuck up on revolution and go sit in a drum circle.

I wasn't aware revolution or protesting involved individually and uncoordinated violence with the exclusive aim to try to kill and harm cops...must have missed out on that one.

The act was senseless, pointless and uncoordinated within the protests and as such in my opinion nothing more or less than reckless endangerment or attempt at bodily harm... and that is because I am in a good mood...it could also easily be seen as an attempt at manslaughter.

Such acts do nothing to further goals of revolution....and in fact have nothing to do with them.

I do not even have to mention that other protesters could have easily been hurt of killed.

Now when there is a revolution and their is a manifestation to seize controll of the government and the cops and army will try to stop it then fine...violence is unavoidable...but this was not the case here. If the police attack and the demonstration as a whole uses violence to defend themselves....fine. But this was a protest rally and not a revolution....and the act was individual and uncoordinated.

These acts in such circumstances will be used as a validation for police brutality and voilence by the establishment. Either coordinate and use mass resistance or keep to peacefull protest.

This is as much as winning the hearts and minds of the public opinion for popular support as it is about resisting the govenment.



Now aside from that.... the sentence is also in my opinion draconican. Its more than some rapist and murderers get in Holland and that is complete BS. Unfortunately for the kid the event was televised and as such became high profile. such cases always tend to get the politicians and the overzealous, over ambitious legel people out of the woodwork to establish a name for themselves and to make a political point. More likely than not this kid has become a scape goat and an example.

[Fabrizio]

What do you mean? He tried to hit a pig with a heavy object!
If that's not defensible, give the fuck up on revolution and go sit in a drum circle.

This of course would have done wonders for the movement against tuition fees (assuming he didn't just hit a protester).:thumbup1:

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

I wasn't aware revolution or protesting involved individually and uncoordinated violence with the exclusive aim to try to kill and harm cops...must have missed out on that one.

Individual and uncoordinated? That's a funny take on it: in the footage I've seen, it looks like there's a pretty decent amount of shit being hurled by a pretty significant number of people. Bricks, sticks . . . Sure, the fire extinguisher is the spectacular example seized upon by the media, but it certainly happened in a context!


act was senseless, pointless and uncoordinated within the protests and as such in my opinion nothing more or less than reckless endangerment or attempt at bodily harm... and that is because I am in a good mood...it could also easily be seen as an attempt at manslaughter.

I think you mean it could be seen as attempt at pigslaughter.
Of course it was an attempt to recklessly endanger or do bodily harm . . . to the fucking police.
There's nothing pointless about that at all: the point is pretty implicit - police are one of the supreme enemies with whom no truce is negotiable.


acts do nothing to further goals of revolution....and in fact have nothing to do with them.

Oh, thanx supreme arbiter of The Revolution.


Now when there is a revolution and their is a manifestation to seize controll of the government and the cops and army will try to stop it then fine...violence is unavoidable...but this was not the case here. If the police attack and the demonstration as a whole uses violence to defend themselves....fine. But this was a protest rally and not a revolution....and the act was individual and uncoordinated.

Waiting for the great leap forward . . .
The pigs are implicit and constant violence. Fuck police-apologetics.
Further, fuck waiting for revolution: If we don't experience and exercise our power in the streets now (as was going down, in case you didn't notice the building occupation, the fires, etc.) it's never going to happen.


These acts in such circumstances will be used as a validation for police brutality and voilence by the establishment. Either coordinate and use mass resistance or keep to peacefull protest.

Oh, yeah, the police need an excuse.
Let me guess, you're not part of a demographic that attracts regular police attention, are you?


his is as much as winning the hearts and minds of the public opinion for popular support as it is about resisting the govenment.


I have no particular love for the idealised 'worker' as he appears in the bourgeois Communist's mind, but when I see an actual flesh-and-blood worker in conflict with his natural enemy, the policeman, I do not have to ask myself which side I am on.