Could've saw this coming.. [Archive]

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The Man

10th January 2011, 21:57

Rakhmetov

10th January 2011, 22:20

Sasha

10th January 2011, 22:30

Congressman puts forward a bill that would stop use of language and symbols against public officials:

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/136895-dem-planning-bill-that-would-outlaw-threatening-lawmakers

Rep. Carolyn McCarthy introduces Gun-Control Legislation:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20027986-503544.html

Oh, and please look at her knowledge of everything about firearms:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ospNRk2uM3U

Just politicizing the massacre in Arizona, fantastic.

Cant get to worked up over those proposals, think US leglislation on both subjects is idiot to begin with. Over here its illegal "to use language or symbols that could be perceived as threatening or inciting violence against" anyone, not just the president (although i think there is some extra law against doing against the queen), and its illegal for anyone to have high capacity magazines (its even illegal to have more than 10 rounds in your magazine if your on the shooting range and illegal to have any ammunition, or an magazine for that matter, in your weapon outside the range). Of all laws we have these are among the ones i dont really disagree with.

A Revolutionary Tool

10th January 2011, 23:38

Kind of off-topic but part of the article.

Does anybody else find it revealing how the media are just like parrots telling the people what the government says to them. Because I keep seeing this "A suspect is currently in custody," in many news articles, including the ones linked here. As if there is actually a doubt in someone's mind that the person they have is not the person who did it, the media has to say they have a "suspect" instead of saying "the guy who committed the crime".

Just an observation I've made.

As to the thing at hand, I have a feeling it is going to make a lot of conspiracy theory bs. They guy read the Communist Manifesto(So he obviously is a liberal/commie according to the right-wing) and he shot up the place so that the Democrats could put into place gun-control and take away our freedom of speech. Democratic leaders may have had something to do with it, who knows.

That kind of bullshit.

bcbm

11th January 2011, 04:26

Does anybody else find it revealing how the media are just like parrots telling the people what the government says to them. Because I keep seeing this "A suspect is currently in custody," in many news articles, including the ones linked here. As if there is actually a doubt in someone's mind that the person they have is not the person who did it, the media has to say they have a "suspect" instead of saying "the guy who committed the crime".
um i think this has to do with the whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing

Mather

12th January 2011, 00:45

um i think this has to do with the whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing

Yes.

A Revolutionary Tool

12th January 2011, 02:24

um i think this has to do with the whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing
Yes I know our government does kind of have to say "innocent until proven guilty", but our press doesn't. Kind of like everybody still thinks O.J. Simpson still killed those people even though he was never found guilty of killing those people. Everybody already knows he did it right, why do we have to pretend like he's just "suspected" of doing the crime instead of just saying that he did do it. Is there any doubt that he did?

Pretty Flaco

12th January 2011, 02:34

Yes I know our government does kind of have to say "innocent until proven guilty", but our press doesn't. Kind of like everybody still thinks O.J. Simpson still killed those people even though he was never found guilty of killing those people. Everybody already knows he did it right, why do we have to pretend like he's just "suspected" of doing the crime instead of just saying that he did do it. Is there any doubt that he did?

Obviously you've never watched The Shawshank Redemption.

Os Cangaceiros

12th January 2011, 02:34

Yes I know our government does kind of have to say "innocent until proven guilty", but our press doesn't. Kind of like everybody still thinks O.J. Simpson still killed those people even though he was never found guilty of killing those people. Everybody already knows he did it right, why do we have to pretend like he's just "suspected" of doing the crime instead of just saying that he did do it. Is there any doubt that he did?

There's a reason that the media doesn't do that. It's because people (theoretically, anyway) are tried in a court of law, not convicted early in the court of public opinion.

apawllo

12th January 2011, 02:55

Obviously they're scared. Not trying to justify this idiot's actions, but if congresspeople don't want to live in fear they should pick new professions; ones where they don't make their living by toying with other people's livelihoods. By the way, no gun legislation is ever going to accomplish anything in this country aside from infuriating a lot of people who love guns and strongly dislike government...just saying.

A Revolutionary Tool

12th January 2011, 02:57

Obviously you've never watched The Shawshank Redemption.
Well obviously! :rolleyes:
Obviously I don't know what you're getting at because I obviously haven't watched the movie.

A Revolutionary Tool

12th January 2011, 02:59

There's a reason that the media doesn't do that. It's because people (theoretically, anyway) are tried in a court of law, not convicted early in the court of public opinion.
He's already been tried in the court of public opinion. It happened within a few hours on this forum itself...

Red Commissar

12th January 2011, 03:08

Anytime we get a shooting, this kind of stuff comes up. The issue here is that since it affected a member of the government, the call for it will be stronger. There are recent examples of this, but I'll go back to one from 1993. Bold things for emphasis:

The Washington Times
December 9, 1993, Thursday, Final Edition
Racial hatred suspected in N.Y. rampage

Liz Trotta; THE WASHINGTON TIMES

NEW YORK - A black gunman who killed five persons and wounded 18
others on a crowded New York commuter train was someone who "hates
whites, Asians and black conservatives" and his random shooting
rampage apparently was carried out in the suburbs to avoid
embarrassment to Mayor David Dinkins, authorities said yesterday.

Colin Ferguson, 35, of Brooklyn was arraigned and charged with the
carnage that began shortly after 6 p.m. Tuesday, just two minutes
before the Long Island Rail Road (LIRR) train pulled into the Merillon
Avenue station in Garden City.

Wielding a 9mm Ruger semiautomatic, the Jamaican-born loner walked
through a passenger car, methodically firing 15 shots and reloading at
least once, police said. Police said they found 100 more rounds of
lethal Black Talon ammunition in a canvas bag carried by the gunman.

After the rampage, the suspect is reported to have said, "I've done a
bad thing."

All those shot were white or Asian.

"I consider this an outrageous crime motivated by bias," said Nassau
County District Attorney Denis Dillon.

At a mobbed news conference conducted by Nassau County Police
Commissioner Donald Kane and other officals, a picture emerged of a
severely disturbed man, unemployed and single, obsessed by deep-seated
feelings of racial hatred. The commissioner said that Mr. Ferguson had
targeted Nassau County instead of New York City because of his high
regard for Mr. Dinkins.

"It did not appear it was a random thing. . . . He had severe
hostilities toward a lot of people, and he boarded the train because
he targeted Nassau County," Mr. Kane said.

One note said to have been written by the suspect read: "New York City
was spared because of my respect for Mayor David Dinkins and [New York
Police] Commissioner Raymond Kelly who is officially still in office.
Nassau County is the venue."

Mr. Dinkins condemned the shooting spree but said it could happen anywhere.

Mr. Kane said four papers of handwritten notes found in Mr. Ferguson's
pockets revealed that he had "strong hostility" for Caucasians,
including Mr. Cuomo and his staff; blacks, including "so-called civil
rights leaders," "rich black attorneys" and "Uncle Tom Negroes"; and
"Chinese racists." The entries apparently were disconnected, composed
of "small notes" and "individual references" rather than complete
sentences.

Mr. Kane said the gunman also condemned some institutions, such as the
compensation board and Adelphi University in Garden City, from which
he reportedly was suspended in 1991 for disciplinary reasons. Some
reports said he also had attended Nassau County Community College,
where he was a good student, but then was expelled after an
altercation with a professor, apparently over a grade.

The shooting drew reactions from across the nation:

* President Clinton condemned the "terrible human tragedy," saying it
should spark new gun-control initiatives. "I hope that this will give
some more impetus to the need to act urgently to deal with the
unnecessary problems of gun violence in the country," Mr. Clinton
said.

In his first year in office, Mr. Clinton has signed the Brady Bill,
with its five-day waiting period for handgun purchases, and supported
banning certain types of ammunition, taxing ammunition and requiring
all gun owners to pass a standards test.

* Larry Pratt of Gun Owners of America said Mr. Clinton "is laying
down, if he can, the foundation for gun confiscation." Gun enthusiasts
noted that the gunman bought the handgun in Long Beach, Calif., after
complying with a 15-day waiting period.

* Gun-control advocates in Congress, among the nation's mayors and
police chiefs, and James Brady, the White House press secretary shot
by a gunman aiming at President Reagan in 1981, laid out plans for
even tougher regulations.

* FBI Director Louis J. Freeh called for a complete ban on the
manufacture, sale and distribution of assault-style weapons.

* In a statement, New York Gov. Mario Cuomo called for "swift
judgment" and "harsh punishment" for the gunman.

* Blacks offered a mixed reaction, with outrage for the senseless
killings but sympathy for the gunman's mental condition.

Of the 18 wounded, one is in critical condition and on life-support
systems, the police said. Two more people were injured in the crush of
terrified commuters trying to get off the bloodied car.

The heavyset Mr. Ferguson, wearing a blue detention uniform, kept his
head down as he stood sullen and silent before the bench in Hempstead
District Court yesterday. He did not enter a plea to charges of
weapons possession, four counts of depraved indifference, murder and
four counts of second-degree intentional murder.

Judge Sandra Fierstein ordered him to be held without bail and given a
psychiatric screening. Another hearing is set for tomorrow.

At one point, a reporter yelled out to the suspect, asking whether he
hated whites. Mr. Ferguson replied: "That's a lie."

Cynthia Roe, who said she was a cousin of the suspect, attended the
arraignment and told reporters that she had never seen any evidence
that he hated whites.

Police said a search conducted of the suspect's rented room in a
Brooklyn house uncovered a number of papers and a box that had
contained the suspect's weapon. Federal authorities later said that
Mr. Ferguson had purchased the weapon legally in Long Beach.

Race, always a highly sensitive issue here, dominated the mayoral
election in November. Black leaders, however, for the most part
remained silent yesterday about the tragedy. Black radio stations,
often confrontational during the campaign, also refrained from
comment.

The ill-fated commuter train left Pennsylvania Station at 5:33 p.m.
bound for Huntington, Long Island. The suspect is thought to have
boarded at Jamaica, Queens. Ten minutes later, with about 100
passengers in the compartment, he started shooting from the back of
the third car, went briefly into the No. 2 car and then returned to
the third to continue firing.

"The shots just kept going off," passenger Diane McCleary said. "He
just wouldn't stop shooting."

John Skramko, another passenger, said: "He emptied his gun out, just
randomly shooting people in the head and neck. He then reloaded and
continued shooting."

During the shooting, commuters were screaming and frantically trying
to get off the train. According to some, the doors remained shut for
some moments. LIRR President Charles Hoppe said the failure of the
train doors to open immediately was "under investigation."

When the train stopped, the gunman was wrestled to the floor by three
passengers.

One man said he had seen nothing like it since he was in Vietnam,
"Except there I could fire back."

Same way of reporting, same issues over gun control, etc...

Os Cangaceiros

12th January 2011, 03:24

He's already been tried in the court of public opinion. It happened within a few hours on this forum itself...

I'm not just talking about this case. I'm talking about any case. There's no reason for the media to simply assume guilt in a high-profile case...that taints the proceedings and creates a horrible precedent. Of course often they do it anyway, but I see no reason why they should be even more explicit about their biases.

apawllo

12th January 2011, 03:41

The issue here is that since it affected a member of the government, the call for it will be stronger.

Not only stronger, but more specific to their interests...

Another member of Congress, Rep. Peter King (R) of New York, announced Tuesday that he plans to introduce legislation making it illegal to carry a firearm within 1,000 feet of certain government officials (http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/0109/Arizona-shooting-How-safe-are-members-of-Congress), such as lawmakers.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2011/0111/Congress-readies-new-gun-control-bills-after-Gabrielle-Giffords-shooting

BLACKPLATES

12th January 2011, 06:30

she didn't seem ignorant about the weapons she was seeking to regulate, the late tucker carlson (hes not dead? shit.) was trying to make the conversation all about "barrel shrouds", the thin metal cowling outside the barrel to facilitate cooling so you can shoot more and faster. the obvious reason that tucker wwanted to do this was to avoid talking about anything informative.

BLACKPLATES

12th January 2011, 06:32

HAHAHAHa ah yes. the pete king "keep that fucking thing away from me" bill

Geiseric

12th January 2011, 06:49

this situation is a tragedy, and it's a shame how the government will apitalise on this to put forward their personal goals.