Full Text of IRA New Years Statement (from The Sovereign Nation)

[fionntan]

Full Text of IRA New Years Statement (from The Sovereign Nation)


The following statement was released anonymously to The Sovereign Nation.

Irish Republican Army

New Year Statement 2011.

The leadership of the Irish Republican Army extend new years greetings to our friends and supporters both nationally and internationally, we send fraternal greetings to revolutionaries around the world and pay special tribute to those imprisoned for their stand against colonialism, imperialism, capitalism and occupation. Likewise we send greetings and solidarity to our own volunteers in the field and those captured by the enemy.

In the past year there has been no mistaking the fact that a conflict exists in occupied Ireland, the British, Free State and Colonial parliament in the six counties have collectively been unable to conceal or deal with this fact.The enemy has resorted to doing what it has historically done in such a situation, it has resorted to mass harassment, house raids, intimidation and politically motivated arrests and convictions as well as the demonisation and criminalisation of our struggle through the mass media and other channels. None of the above measures have worked in the past nor will they work now.


In the year to come the leadership of Oglaigh na hEireann, pledge to continue to resist occupation in all its forms in Ireland and continue to do so in a strategic and disciplined fashion, we will learn from past mistakes and will strive to expand the theatre of our operations in line with our strategy. We will continue to target institutions and personel in the military, political, policing, justice and commercial and economic fields. Those who actively engage in the occupation of Ireland and those who assist this occupation are the enemies of the Irish people. In the last year the lines of demarcation between those who continue to defend Irish sovereignty and those who wish to subvert it have become clearer, in the year to come these lines will become even more stark.

Victory to the IRA.

[costello1977]

Very positive outlook on the situation here at present.

Have to say, I always admired the fact that they have never let their statements etc become bogged down in rhetoric, unlike the CIRA and the last few PIRA statements, but that was for obvious reasons.

Good reference at the end as well, with regard to the lines of demarcation.

Saoirse go deo!

[costello1977]

In the past year there has been no mistaking the fact that a conflict exists in occupied Ireland, the British, Free State and Colonial parliament in the six counties have collectively been unable to conceal or deal with this fact.The enemy has resorted to doing what it has historically done in such a situation, it has resorted to mass harassment, house raids, intimidation and politically motivated arrests and convictions as well as the demonisation and criminalisation of our struggle through the mass media and other channels. None of the above measures have worked in the past nor will they work now.


Great paragraph.

The highlighted is clearly visible being actualised even on this forum.

[Soldier of life]

Very positive outlook on the situation here at present.

Have to say, I always admired the fact that they have never let their statements etc become bogged down in rhetoric, unlike the CIRA and the last few PIRA statements, but that was for obvious reasons.

Good reference at the end as well, with regard to the lines of demarcation.

Saoirse go deo!

Don't engage in rhetoric? You mustn't follow their statements closely. 'Our actions speak louder than 1000 words', 2010 showed that to be pretty rhetorical.

[costello1977]

Don't engage in rhetoric? You mustn't follow their statements closely. 'Our actions speak louder than 1000 words', 2010 showed that to be pretty rhetorical.

Sorry not in that sense, really didn't make that clear.

They don't become bogged down in claiming legitimacy from 1916 etc etc or talk about the Hunger Strikers etc etc too much. That type of rhetoric within its older usage, or (in classical oratory) the art of influencing the thought and conduct of an audience, which in the case of Irish Republicanism, means constant reference to Irish Republican sentiment. This is a clear and definitive statement.

[Soldier of life]

Sorry not in that sense, really didn't make that clear.

They don't become bogged down in claiming legitimacy from 1916 etc etc or talk about the Hunger Strikers etc etc too much. That type of rhetoric within its older usage, or (in classical oratory) the art of influencing the thought and conduct of an audience, which in the case of Irish Republicanism, means constant reference to Irish Republican sentiment. This is a clear and definitive statement.

The CIRA don't constantly reference 1916 or the hunger strikers either.

And the last line of the statement is a bit strange. If anything, SF, whom I presume the line refers to partly at least, have gained in popularity quite significantly in 2010.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

Sorry, I find these things really confusing - which IRA is this from?

[costello1977]

The CIRA don't constantly reference 1916 or the hunger strikers either.

And the last line of the statement is a bit strange. If anything, SF, whom I presume the line refers to partly at least, have gained in popularity quite significantly in 2010.

The subtext is nothing to do with popularity, but is in actual fact a reference to SF's administration of British Rule rendering them part of the establishment.


In the last year the lines of demarcation between those who continue to defend Irish sovereignty and those who wish to subvert it have become clearer, in the year to come these lines will become even more stark.It's pretty clear that the reference is not with regards to popularity. Don't forget, popularity and righteousness are not often simultaneous, and are often at odds.

As for the Contos, they are more interested in discussing 1986 and abstention in near every statement. But then again, which contos do you mean?


Sorry, I find these things really confusing - which IRA is this from?


In light of the fact that this message was given to the Sovereign Nation, it would mean it is the "Real" IRA.

[la lucha sigue]

Sorry not in that sense, really didn't make that clear.

They don't become bogged down in claiming legitimacy from 1916 etc etc or talk about the Hunger Strikers etc etc too much. That type of rhetoric within its older usage, or (in classical oratory) the art of influencing the thought and conduct of an audience, which in the case of Irish Republicanism, means constant reference to Irish Republican sentiment. This is a clear and definitive statement.

There is a certain sense of legitimacy claimed when they issue statements in the name of the "THE" IRA. Also, I'm not sure that many Republicans would see "clear and definitive statements" and "Republican sentiment" as being mutually exclusive.

[Soldier of life]

The subtext is nothing to do with popularity, but is in actual fact a reference to SF's administration of British Rule rendering them part of the establishment.

It's pretty clear that the reference is not with regards to popularity. Don't forget, popularity and righteousness are not often simultaneous, and are often at odds.

As for the Contos, they are more interested in discussing 1986 and abstention in near every statement. But then again, which contos do you mean?




In light of the fact that this message was given to the Sovereign Nation, it would mean it is the "Real" IRA.

But hold on, if the line is becoming clearer between those defending Irish sovereignty and those subverting it, how does the RIRA measure that, and who is it becoming clearer to? The line is basically meaningless as it is impossible to qualify. And if it is ordinary people realising who is defending Irish sovereignty [to the RIRA, themselves], why are SF the ones who are substantially growing in popularity. That's what I mean, if it is becoming clearer to people the likes of SF are the ones subverting it, why are SF gaining in popularity if anything[which can be backed up] while there is zero evidence to suggest that the Reals have either experienced a growth in support, or indeed that the whole sentiment is in fact true. It might be clearer in the Reals eyes, doesn't seem to be clearer to anyone else.

[costello1977]

But hold on, if the line is becoming clearer between those defending Irish sovereignty and those subverting it, how does the RIRA measure that, and who is it becoming clearer to? The line is basically meaningless as it is impossible to qualify. And if it is ordinary people realising who is defending Irish sovereignty [to the RIRA, themselves], why are SF the ones who are substantially growing in popularity. That's what I mean, if it is becoming clearer to people the likes of SF are the ones subverting it, why are SF gaining in popularity if anything[which can be backed up] while there is zero evidence to suggest that the Reals have either experienced a growth in support, or indeed that the whole sentiment is in fact true. It might be clearer in the Reals eyes, doesn't seem to be clearer to anyone else.

They aren't growing in popularity, they are eating into the core middle class nationalist vote of the SDLP/Fianna Fail, I would hardly qualify that as becoming "popular". In the end of the day, the people who are seeing the lines of demarcation more clearly are the people I live cheek by jowl with, the working class republicans of areas like Ardoyne and Ballymurphy etc.

Maybe you can explain to me how 6 years ago, a friend of mine was spat at in Ardoyne for going against SF, yet now the people who spat at him at the leading lights of "dissent"?

Maybe you can explain how 6 years ago SF/PIRA dominated areas in Belfast, yet now they live outside the area, barely venturing in unless for a wee bit of propaganda picture taking?

Maybe you can explain why the Upper Antrim road area is now predominately SF voters, when 5 years ago they were SDLP?

And please do explain to me how SF can claim to be an All Ireland leftist party when they have the likes of Martin O'Millionaire coming back to stand as councillors? And this man says he agrees with the conservative politics of Reg Empey?

The people of Republican North and West Belfast are seeing the light now. Not long before SF loses the core vote they rely on, which is why I suspect Gerry Adams is fleeing West Belfast for the safe confines of middleclass Louth.

[costello1977]

There is a certain sense of legitimacy claimed when they issue statements in the name of the "THE" IRA. Also, I'm not sure that many Republicans would see "clear and definitive statements" and "Republican sentiment" as being mutually exclusive.

Firstly, a coherent sentence doesn't claim legitimacy,would you prefer they released statements as "The IRA, but the real IRA or the continuity IRA"? The fact is that all the army councils claim to be leaders of the IRA. There is only one body of volunteers called "the IRA", there are several organisations that claim to be their leaders.

The second point is just speculative on your part. Maybe you should come over and do a census of republicans and see.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

There is only one body of volunteers called "the IRA", there are several organisations that claim to be their leaders.

Huh. That's hella thought-provoking. I'd be stoked if you could flesh that idea out some.

[FreeEire]

There is only one body of volunteers called "the IRA", there are several organisations that claim to be their leaders.
Are you sure about that? I think its more like there are several bodies of volunteers calling themselves the IRA and claiming to be the true IRA.

Unless your attempting to suggest that the CIRA, OnH, RIRA, and the new "Real Continuity" IRA are all the same body of people carrying out operations under different names.

[costello1977]

Are you sure about that? I think its more like there are several bodies of volunteers calling themselves the IRA and claiming to be the true IRA.

Unless your attempting to suggest that the CIRA, OnH, RIRA, and the new "Real Continuity" IRA are all the same body of people carrying out operations under different names.

Of course all the IRAs are going to claim to be the legitimate one, with the exception of the INLA. The point I am making is that there is no difference between the volunteers just the army councils.

What I mean is that essentially there is only one body of Irish Republican Army volunteers, but there are several different heads of that snake trying to lead it, which is creating problems.

As for the second point, there has been a lot of that happening too and that is a theory at the moment, that ex-PIRA vols are doing work and letting the likes of CIRA and OnH claim their ops.

However, I wouldn't count the criminal gang called "Real Sinn Fein" with their counter gang, "RCIRA" in any bracket, as they are certainly not republicans.

[la lucha sigue]

Of course all the IRAs are going to claim to be the legitimate one, with the exception of the INLA. The point I am making is that there is no difference between the volunteers just the army councils.

What I mean is that essentially there is only one body of Irish Republican Army volunteers, but there are several different heads of that snake trying to lead it, which is creating problems.

As for the second point, there has been a lot of that happening too and that is a theory at the moment, that ex-PIRA vols are doing work and letting the likes of CIRA and OnH claim their ops.

However, I wouldn't count the criminal gang called "Real Sinn Fein" with their counter gang, "RCIRA" in any bracket, as they are certainly not republicans.

The political and practical differences in the Army Councils are reflected in the Volunteers of their respective organisations, or perhaps even its the other way round. Where do you think those Army Council members came from? There is no more one body of IRA Volunteers than there is one Army Council.

[Irish Left]

The only two that claim to be the IRA are the contos and the reals. The contos are a bunch of crims along with their friends in the RCIRA. ONH claim to be ONH and not the IRA to try and make it less cofusing but then people started over thinking it and confused everything. Each are seperate amrys who have split from each other.

[costello1977]

The only two that claim to be the IRA are the contos and the reals. The contos are a bunch of crims along with their friends in the RCIRA. ONH claim to be ONH and not the IRA to try and make it less cofusing but then people started over thinking it and confused everything. Each are seperate amrys who have split from each other.

Thats most true. To be honest, the point I was trying to make has become convoluted by this stage, but to put it simply: Whilst you can argue about the legitimacy of the army councils, you can't argue that they are all volunteers!

[la lucha sigue]

The only two that claim to be the IRA are the contos and the reals. The contos are a bunch of crims along with their friends in the RCIRA. ONH claim to be ONH and not the IRA to try and make it less cofusing but then people started over thinking it and confused everything. Each are seperate amrys who have split from each other.

That's bollox, the CIRA are anything but crims. And ONH is simply the Irish for IRA, so the same implicit claim to legitimacy is there too, even if its not as obvious to non-Irish speakers.

[Irish Left]

Thats most true. To be honest, the point I was trying to make has become convoluted by this stage, but to put it simply: Whilst you can argue about the legitimacy of the army councils, you can't argue that they are all volunteers!

True. Although I don't like the continuity side of things.
I don't agree with armed struggle anymore anyway. I won't condem them but they are risking imprisonment or death and its all for nothing as non of these groups are, and never will be capable of defeating the brits.

[Irish Left]

That's bollox, the CIRA are anything but crims. And ONH is simply the Irish for IRA, so the same implicit claim to legitimacy is there too, even if its not as obvious to non-Irish speakers.

Id disagree with that. No Óglaigh na hÉireann translates as warriors/volunteers of Ireland.

[costello1977]

That's bollox, the CIRA are anything but crims. And ONH is simply the Irish for IRA, so the same implicit claim to legitimacy is there too, even if its not as obvious to non-Irish speakers.

Well, I can't understand why the Onh crowd go with the name like that, but their heavy media presence has let them get away with it.

As for the Contos, I think that they got rid of most of the crims they had when Real SF and the RCIRA walked out.

[costello1977]

Id disagree with that. No Óglaigh na hÉireann translates as warriors/volunteers of Ireland.

Yeah, I think the rough translation of IRA is "Arm poblachtá na h'Eireann".

I could be wrong because my Irish is so very, very poor:crying:

[la lucha sigue]

True. Although I don't like the continuity side of things.
I don't agree with armed struggle anymore anyway. I won't condem them but they are risking imprisonment or death and its all for nothing as non of these groups are, and never will be capable of defeating the brits.

sounds like condemnation to me!

[Soldier of life]

They aren't growing in popularity, they are eating into the core middle class nationalist vote of the SDLP/Fianna Fail, I would hardly qualify that as becoming "popular". In the end of the day, the people who are seeing the lines of demarcation more clearly are the people I live cheek by jowl with, the working class republicans of areas like Ardoyne and Ballymurphy etc.

Maybe you can explain to me how 6 years ago, a friend of mine was spat at in Ardoyne for going against SF, yet now the people who spat at him at the leading lights of "dissent"?

Maybe you can explain how 6 years ago SF/PIRA dominated areas in Belfast, yet now they live outside the area, barely venturing in unless for a wee bit of propaganda picture taking?

Maybe you can explain why the Upper Antrim road area is now predominately SF voters, when 5 years ago they were SDLP?

And please do explain to me how SF can claim to be an All Ireland leftist party when they have the likes of Martin O'Millionaire coming back to stand as councillors? And this man says he agrees with the conservative politics of Reg Empey?

The people of Republican North and West Belfast are seeing the light now. Not long before SF loses the core vote they rely on, which is why I suspect Gerry Adams is fleeing West Belfast for the safe confines of middleclass Louth.

So wait, SF are riding much higher in polls consistently, and as you even admit eating into other groups votes, and yet this doesn't qualify as becoming more 'popular'. Yet in the same breath you claim working class people are seeing the lines of demarcation more clearly and that SF is losing it's core vote, and what you have to back that up is anecdotal. That line of argument is simply absurd. You cannot qualify any of your claims, they are therefore rubbish.

And save me the lecture on the finer points of SF's politics. I am not a SF supporter I am a supporter of the IRSP, I am just not deluded into thinking the challenge facing republican socialists is anything less than it is. The reality is due to the sectarian nature of politics in the North SF's electoral superiority is guaranteed, there is currently no tangible electoral alternative. No amount of anecdotal spiel changes that fact.

And you calling Louth 'middle-class' is utterly ridiculous. How the hell is a whole County 'middle-class'? You've no idea what you're talking about, and international posters here should be made aware of that.

I slightly regret posting in this thread, as it has given air to a statement from a non-socialist/communist organisation that doesn't deserve it and has resulted in piss poor debate that has included this anecdotal childishness.

[costello1977]

So wait, SF are riding much higher in polls consistently, and as you even admit eating into other groups votes, and yet this doesn't qualify as becoming more 'popular'. Yet in the same breath you claim working class people are seeing the lines of demarcation more clearly and that SF is losing it's core vote, and what you have to back that up is anecdotal. That line of argument is simply absurd. You cannot qualify any of your claims, they are therefore rubbish.

lol very good. Didn't even read my post. I said


They aren't growing in popularity, they are eating into the core middle class nationalist vote of the SDLP/Fianna Fail, I would hardly qualify that as becoming "popular". In the end of the day, the people who are seeing the lines of demarcation more clearly are the people I live cheek by jowl with, the working class republicans of areas like Ardoyne and Ballymurphy etc. Now, bear with me on this, I said they are eating into middle class nationalist votes, then pointed out they are losing their working class votes, suggesting that this is not becoming more popular, just shifting the goal posts. As for qualifying claims, come on up to Ardoyne and have a wee quick walk round with me and you tell me if you think the Ardoyne vote for SF will be substantial this year. The fact is that SF have made two moves in the last few months which signal that they are preparing to jettison the working class in Belfast. 1) Gerry Adams has given up his seat (I imagine this is because he can read the writing on the wall) 2) Martin O'Millionaire is back, well visibly, in the fold. He has no interest in the common man. Never had, never will.



And save me the lecture on the finer points of SF's politics. I am not a SF supporter I am a supporter of the IRSP, I am just not deluded into thinking the challenge facing republican socialists is anything less than it is. The reality is due to the sectarian nature of politics in the North SF's electoral superiority is guaranteed, there is currently no tangible electoral alternative. No amount of anecdotal spiel changes that fact.Granted, that was a mistake, I admit that and am sorry for the confusion, but how is supporting the inferior IRSP, or mini-SF, any better?

Im not deluded either. I suspicious of the IRSP as they seem to lack any drive other than to romanticise about Costello and Ta Power. I was a huge fan of the IRSP until recently. Ive a lot of family that were close to the IRSP. Im a friend of a few IRSP men meself.

Maybe one of the tangible electoral alternatives is kneecapping hoods and letting others claim it? Who knows!


And you calling Louth 'middle-class' is utterly ridiculous. How the hell is a whole County 'middle-class'? You've no idea what you're talking about, and international posters here should be made aware of that.Point out to me where I said the whole county was middle class. I think you need a set of reading glasses chum, I infered "Middle Class" Louth, not "Middle Class Louth", but I suppose the meaning there can get lost in translation. I know a wee bit more about whats going on than you imply. But I can only imagine that, being a member of the IRSP, you know fcuk all apart from what big daddy SF says.

Did ye tell posters that yes generally do what SF says......or else?


I slightly regret posting in this thread, as it has given air to a statement from a non-socialist/communist organisation that doesn't deserve it and has resulted in piss poor debate that has included this anecdotal childishness.Im sorry if the debating isn't up to your standards, but sure, it wouldn't be like an irrelevant set of Republicans to be elitist. I tell ya what, see for hating the Sticks so much, you don't half get on like them lol

Im also getting the feeling that a lot of this venom is coming from the fact I have Steenson as my avatar, Yes?

[gorillafuck]

Which IRA is this?

[Irish Left]

Which IRA is this?

Its just The IRA, but the media like to call the the Real IRA.

[costello1977]

The Irish Republican Army lol

Someone didn't read the thread lol

Already been answered.

[gorillafuck]

The Irish Republican Army lol

Someone didn't read the thread lol

Already been answered.
Ah, I missed that.

It can be confusing when there's so many IRA's.

[costello1977]

Ah, I missed that.

It can be confusing when there's so many IRA's.

Theres 2.

OIRA and PIRA no longer exist. So, when you hear IRA it will mean either Reals or Continuity.

The Reals are linked to 32csm.

The Contos to RSF.

And the OnH to the IRS.......sorry no one, no one!

[gorillafuck]

Oh, I thought the PIRA and OIRA still existed. My mistake.

[costello1977]

Oh, I thought the PIRA and OIRA still existed. My mistake.

A mistake many make.

Both the OIRA and PIRA are de jure gone, but have held on to a few weapons for "protection".

The INLA are gone too.

[Irish Left]

Theres 2.

OIRA and PIRA no longer exist. So, when you hear IRA it will mean either Reals or Continuity.

The Reals are linked to 32csm.

The Contos to RSF.

And the OnH to the IRS.......sorry no one, no one!

Do you not mean RN.........
And are you not a irp?

[FreeEire]

Of course all the IRAs are going to claim to be the legitimate one, with the exception of the INLA. The point I am making is that there is no difference between the volunteers just the army councils.

What I mean is that essentially there is only one body of Irish Republican Army volunteers, but there are several different heads of that snake trying to lead it, which is creating problems.

As for the second point, there has been a lot of that happening too and that is a theory at the moment, that ex-PIRA vols are doing work and letting the likes of CIRA and OnH claim their ops.

However, I wouldn't count the criminal gang called "Real Sinn Fein" with their counter gang, "RCIRA" in any bracket, as they are certainly not republicans.
I would argue that there is a difference in between the average volunteer in each Army as well, obviously not a huge difference, they all declare to be out fighting for a 32 County Socialist Republic but their are differences on how best to achieve it and exactly what it would look like.

There's definitely ex-Provos involved but I wouldn't go for the theory that they're letting others claim it. I'd say there's maybe a few individuals involved in each Army or else a group or groups of ex-Provos are providing training to all the Armies.

[Soldier of life]

lol very good. Didn't even read my post. I said

Now, bear with me on this, I said they are eating into middle class nationalist votes, then pointed out they are losing their working class votes, suggesting that this is not becoming more popular, just shifting the goal posts. As for qualifying claims, come on up to Ardoyne and have a wee quick walk round with me and you tell me if you think the Ardoyne vote for SF will be substantial this year. The fact is that SF have made two moves in the last few months which signal that they are preparing to jettison the working class in Belfast. 1) Gerry Adams has given up his seat (I imagine this is because he can read the writing on the wall) 2) Martin O'Millionaire is back, well visibly, in the fold. He has no interest in the common man. Never had, never will.


Granted, that was a mistake, I admit that and am sorry for the confusion, but how is supporting the inferior IRSP, or mini-SF, any better?

Im not deluded either. I suspicious of the IRSP as they seem to lack any drive other than to romanticise about Costello and Ta Power. I was a huge fan of the IRSP until recently. Ive a lot of family that were close to the IRSP. Im a friend of a few IRSP men meself.

Maybe one of the tangible electoral alternatives is kneecapping hoods and letting others claim it? Who knows!

Point out to me where I said the whole county was middle class. I think you need a set of reading glasses chum, I infered "Middle Class" Louth, not "Middle Class Louth", but I suppose the meaning there can get lost in translation. I know a wee bit more about whats going on than you imply. But I can only imagine that, being a member of the IRSP, you know fcuk all apart from what big daddy SF says.

Did ye tell posters that yes generally do what SF says......or else?

Im sorry if the debating isn't up to your standards, but sure, it wouldn't be like an irrelevant set of Republicans to be elitist. I tell ya what, see for hating the Sticks so much, you don't half get on like them lol

Im also getting the feeling that a lot of this venom is coming from the fact I have Steenson as my avatar, Yes?

I have absolutely no interest in you personally or what avatar you have. I could not care less. However, there are a few decent people on this site and what I do care about is what you are saying about Irish politics.

Your posts are just incredibly weak, incoherent ramblings. In the above posts you have referred to the IRSP as a mini-SF, that the IRSP do with SF says and other incredulous waffle. Even a basic knowledge of Irish political discourse will lead one to the yawning political gap between the IRSP and SF. I suggest you educate yourself a bit more, because all you are doing in this thread is offering petty jibes and anecdotes that are completely worthless.

And for the record this is exactly what you said in relation to Louth:

''... I suspect Gerry Adams is fleeing West Belfast for the safe confines of middleclass Louth.''

It's pretty clear what you said. Posters here can read it for themselves.

I'd love you to expand on how the IRSP, said with the user name 'costello1977', 'generally do what SF says...or else'

You are just a troll with literacy issues and your posts here make a mockery of the man your username is taken from.

[Soldier of life]

Theres 2.

OIRA and PIRA no longer exist. So, when you hear IRA it will mean either Reals or Continuity.

The Reals are linked to 32csm.

The Contos to RSF.

And the OnH to the IRS.......sorry no one, no one!

The OIRA do exist ffs. Please, go educate yourself.

[Soldier of life]

A mistake many make.

Both the OIRA and PIRA are de jure gone, but have held on to a few weapons for "protection".

The INLA are gone too.

The OIRA are fully armed, you've no idea what you're talking about.

[Soldier of life]

Do you not mean RN.........
And are you not a irp?

No, he's a semi-literate troll. The post and specific point you refer to in this post shows exactly how serious to take him.

[la lucha sigue]

Id disagree with that. No Óglaigh na hÉireann translates as warriors/volunteers of Ireland.

If you translate word for word literally. That's like saying the Irish for whiskey doesn't mean whiskey at all, it just means water of life.

You ask anyone sensible to translate "Oglaigh na h'Eireann" and they'll tell you its the Irish for the IRA, and likewise, nobody would translate IRA into Irish as anything else but "Oglaigh na h'Eireann".

[costello1977]

I have absolutely no interest in you personally or what avatar you have. I could not care less. However, there are a few decent people on this site and what I do care about is what you are saying about Irish politics.

Rubbish. Then why did you respond with an incredibly weak post?


Your posts are just incredibly weak, incoherent ramblings. In the above posts you have referred to the IRSP as a mini-SF, that the IRSP do with SF says and other incredulous waffle. Even a basic knowledge of Irish political discourse will lead one to the yawning political gap between the IRSP and SF. I suggest you educate yourself a bit more, because all you are doing in this thread is offering petty jibes and anecdotes that are completely worthless.

What "yawning political gap"? Is this the gap that saw the IRSP agree with SF? Is this the political gap that sees them engage in the Parades commission? Or the one that says that the GFA is wrong but accepts that because people vote for SF, sure its ok?

Educate meself or immerse myself in the mythology that is currently being pumped out from the IRSP? I know what Im on about, Im not prepared to embrace the fallacy that the IRSP are anything other than a different Eirigi.


And for the record this is exactly what you said in relation to Louth:

''... I suspect Gerry Adams is fleeing West Belfast for the safe confines of middleclass Louth.''

It's pretty clear what you said. Posters here can read it for themselves.

Your arguing semantics there. It is laughable that your basing your argument on twisting me words lol


I'd love you to expand on how the IRSP, said with the user name 'costello1977', 'generally do what SF says...or else'

Because, unlike the revisionists currently in control of the IRSP, I can't reconcile Costello's vision with the current disposition of the IRSP. Bet ya your quiet on the kneecapping their at as well? Only a revisionist could reconcile surrender with the revolution Costello was planning!


You are just a troll with literacy issues and your posts here make a mockery of the man your username is taken from.

By the way, I try my best to beat my dyslexia, Im not going to let you beat me not it either.

As for the second part, your party makes a mockery of his memory.

[costello1977]

The OIRA do exist ffs. Please, go educate yourself.

The workers party would argue different. Even the super sticks don't refer to them as the IRA. Whats laughable is that you seem to think you actually know what is going on but......


The OIRA are fully armed, you've no idea what you're talking about.

.....both orgs decommissioned last year. That is both the WP linked OIRA, which was stood down in 1992, and the ORM linked OIRA, who refer to it as group B.

And maybe you could explain to how the drug dealing and thieving committed by the ORM's OIRA/group B constitutes activity? I KNOW they don't us the OIRA name anymore, so Im not going to talk the same spoof you will.


No, he's a semi-literate troll. The post and specific point you refer to in this post shows exactly how serious to take him.

As I pointed out before, my dyslexia is my problem.

And I was alluding to the fact that a certain org have been kneecapping hoods and thieves in Belfast and letting OnH take the credit. I have to say, for claim Im a troll and thick etc etc you certainly missed the subtly of that comment.

Moreover, I would point out that you came on this thread and started this crap, therefore you are the troll!

[Irish Left]

If you translate word for word literally. That's like saying the Irish for whiskey doesn't mean whiskey at all, it just means water of life.

You ask anyone sensible to translate "Oglaigh na h'Eireann" and they'll tell you its the Irish for the IRA, and likewise, nobody would translate IRA into Irish as anything else but "Oglaigh na h'Eireann".

Well they would be wrong. ONH does not translate as IRA. I would argue that anyone who fights for Ireland can use the term ONH including groups like the INLA.

[fionntan]

Knowing the both of yous ill say yous are two trolls:lol:Commies by proxie...

[Irish Left]

I think the OIRA do exist in twwo factions. One loyal to the ORAM and the other to the WP. However they would not be Irish republicans. There is a lot of rumours about them protecting hoods etc....
As costello says they allegedly decommissioned least year anyway.

[costello1977]

Knowing the both of yous ill say yous are two trolls:lol:Commies by proxie...

Reckon if he knew me, he'd know Im a nuisance? lol

[Soldier of life]

You literally have no idea what you are on about, or rather, as I suspect, you are purposely trolling.

The IRSP do not believe because people vote for SF the GFA is 'ok', substantiate that....

The OIRA have not decommissioned, again, totally incorrect.

And about kneecappings, again, congratulations on the absolutely worthless anecdotal 'evidence'.

[Soldier of life]

Knowing the both of yous ill say yous are two trolls:lol:Commies by proxie...

No, you don't know me. I know Costello1977 has set a precedent for inaccuracies in this thread but let's not continue with it.

[costello1977]

You literally have no idea what you are on about, or rather, as I suspect, you are purposely trolling.

Aye, dead on. So I don't buy the bs coming outta Costello house, I know nothing...


The IRSP do not believe because people vote for SF the GFA is 'ok', substantiate that....

The dogs on the street can see it mo chara. If this is not the case, why do the IRSP not challenge them in elections? I think the only place they are SF lap dogs is in yer head.


The OIRA have not decommissioned, again, totally incorrect.

Really?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/northern_ireland_politics/8504374.stm

"The purpose of this engagement was to ensure that all weapons which were under the control of the Official IRA or to which the Official IRA had access were accounted for and transferred to the control of the decommissioning body".

Do you wish to substantiate your claim that they haven't? Or are you just talking shoite?

Heres a few more links, have a wee read, maybe you need to "educate yourself" lol

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/official-ira--decommissions-weapons-14672646.html

http://www.u.tv/News/Last-loyalist-group-disposes-of-weapons/c400d480-0ecc-46a4-a0ae-f32861f2e4ee



And about kneecappings, again, congratulations on the absolutely worthless anecdotal 'evidence'.

Once again, the dogs on the street know, which is why I have alluded to it, not said it outright.

[Soldier of life]

Ok, you substantiate your claim on the IRSP thinking the GFA is 'ok' by referring to the dogs in the street. Well done. Unfortunately that doesn't qualify as evidence and once again you are making a claim you cannot back up.

Also, the dogs in the streets know about kneecapping:lol: Starting to see a pattern here. Wow your sources are humbling, of real academic value I'm sure.

On the sticks. Nice of you to quote the mainstream media, are you going to quote the Sunday World next?

Sure I can just do the same to back my point that it was not the OIRA, it was in fact the armed elements of the ORM:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/feb/08/northern-ireland-republican-groups-disarm

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/why-we-are-still-cursed-by-the-shadow-of-the-gunman-14689886.html

The second source is particularly funny, given that you used the same source(an earlier issue) to back up your point. But in this later issue the Telegraph clarifies that the OIRA are still armed and it was the ORM who decommissioned.


No wonder you are clueless if your sources for politics are dogs and the capitalist media. But as I have demonstrated, it's easy for me to use the capitalist media similarly. Your source and non-existent dogs in the street 'sources' should be a source of embarrassment for you. You've no idea what you're on about, just ask the dogs on the street.

[costello1977]

Ok, you substantiate your claim on the IRSP thinking the GFA is 'ok' by referring to the dogs in the street. Well done. Unfortunately that doesn't qualify as evidence and once again you are making a claim you cannot back up.

So, you reckon that a few policies from 1999 is more substantiative than the actions of the IRSP on the streets? Says it all.


Also, the dogs in the streets know about kneecapping:lol: Starting to see a pattern here. Wow your sources are humbling, of real academic value I'm sure.

Three of those targetted have said that it was the INLA who kneecapped them. Do you want to start talking in facts here or are you going to keep to the fallacies pumped out of Costello house?


On the sticks. Nice of you to quote the mainstream media, are you going to quote the Sunday World next?

Sure I can just do the same to back my point that it was not the OIRA, it was in fact the armed elements of the ORM:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/feb/08/northern-ireland-republican-groups-disarm

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/why-we-are-still-cursed-by-the-shadow-of-the-gunman-14689886.html

The second source is particularly funny, given that you used the same source(an earlier issue) to back up your point. But in this later issue the Telegraph clarifies that the OIRA are still armed and it was the ORM who decommissioned.

Now now, you seemto be forgetting why the ORM and the Workers Party split there. They split because the WP stood down the army and the ORM disagreed with this, so there is only one OIRA.



No wonder you are clueless if your sources for politics are dogs and the capitalist media. But as I have demonstrated, it's easy for me to use the capitalist media similarly. Your source and non-existent dogs in the street 'sources' should be a source of embarrassment for you. You've no idea what you're on about, just ask the dogs on the street.

Im guessing your from the South because you seem to know fck all about what is happening in the north.

Typical of the IRSP though.

[Soldier of life]

So, you reckon that a few policies from 1999 is more substantiative than the actions of the IRSP on the streets? Says it all.



What actions on the streets? And of course, how foolish of me to judge a party by their policies.


Three of those targetted have said that it was the INLA who kneecapped them. Do you want to start talking in facts here or are you going to keep to the fallacies pumped out of Costello house?

So now your sources are suspected drug dealers that ONH have kneecapped, your sources are humbling.




Now now, you seemto be forgetting why the ORM and the Workers Party split there. They split because the WP stood down the army and the ORM disagreed with this, so there is only one OIRA.

The ORM split and were the ones who decommissioned. The OIRA are still armed as acknowledged, quite funnily, by one of the sources you used to back up your claim:lol:





Im guessing your from the South because you seem to know fck all about what is happening in the north.

Nice partitionist mindset you've got there. And I didn't know we were discussing 'the North', we were discussing several issues in Ireland.


Typical of the IRSP though.

Showing our intelligence again are we, well done, what a high standard of debate. :unsure:

[Imposter Marxist]

I hate to be an ass, guys, but Im geinuinly interested in the IRA and the Irish struggle. I've just read this entire thread but I haven't the slightest clue what group is which.

It was my understanding that the PIRA decommisoned, and two or three groups split, keeping their arms. The most well known (And maybe last) is the Real IRA.

What groups are which? Which ones have disarmed?

[Soldier of life]

I hate to be an ass, guys, but Im geinuinly interested in the IRA and the Irish struggle. I've just read this entire thread but I haven't the slightest clue what group is which.

It was my understanding that the PIRA decommisoned, and two or three groups split, keeping their arms. The most well known (And maybe last) is the Real IRA.

What groups are which? Which ones have disarmed?

I'll outline it for you.

PIRA, which split from the monolithic republican movement in 1969, most prominent armed republican group since then, linked to Sinn Fein: Decommissioned

OIRA, referred to as the sticks, what was left after the PIRA split, have not been engaged in military activity against the occupation since the very early 70s: Have not decommissioned

ORM, Late split from OIRA: Decommissioned

INLA, split from OIRA in 1974 having initially been referred to as the PLA(peoples liberation army), armed wing of IRSP and carried out numerous high profile ops: Decommissioned

CIRA, Split from PIRA in 1986, 1 enemy kill in 24 years, highly inactive: Have not decommissioned (but you wouldn't know the difference if they had)

RIRA, another PIRA split in 1997, 2 enemy combatants in all that time killed since: Have not decommissioned

ONH, Rumoured split in RIRA, no enemy kills: Have not decommissioned


Hope this helps you.

[Bethechange]

In reading this, I am reminded of a certain film. Something about Judean People's Front vs. People's Front of Judea...? Who said the first item on the agenda of each new Irish Republican organization is the split? This isn't limited to Irish politics, naturally. Witness the multitude of factions on this very site represented. Splitters!

[costello1977]

What actions on the streets? And of course, how foolish of me to judge a party by their policies.

Policies? Aye, dead on. Policies from 1995? Give me one from off thier website that isn't from 1995/1999. I await this with baited breath.



So now your sources are suspected drug dealers that ONH have kneecapped, your sources are humbling.

Listen, see even if the hoods know, the real people on the streets know whats going on. The fact that you think it is Onh shows how little is filtered down to the likes of Sligo by YOUR own leadership. And you thought I didn't know.






The ORM split and were the ones who decommissioned. The OIRA are still armed as acknowledged, quite funnily, by one of the sources you used to back up your claim:lol:

As Sean Garland, whose case of extradition is coming up where the OIRA is, and that will reveal something to ya lol.

I will tell ya this, I have spoken to WP members TONIGHT and they admit that there is "NO WP ALIGNED OIRA". I'll take their word over a clown like you.





Nice partitionist mindset you've got there. And I didn't know we were discussing 'the North', we were discussing several issues in Ireland.

So pointing out the problems within the communitcations system of your party means Im a partitionist? Aye, dead on. Clown. The fact is that your southern party doesn't know what yer northern part is at lol That is a reality no matter what terminology you try to undermine it with.




Showing our intelligence again are we, well done, what a high standard of debate. :unsure:

I think Ive handled this debate quite well. Im not the one who came on and attacked the IRA, you did. Tell ya what,by sources from your town, which I have alluded to, your a bit of a drug taking ball bag nuisance so I think Im one up on this debate from a start because Im a grown up.

HA HA and your a scared to go for a drink in Ardoyne lol

[costello1977]

In reading this, I am reminded of a certain film. Something about Judean People's Front vs. People's Front of Judea...? Who said the first item on the agenda of each new Irish Republican organization is the split? This isn't limited to Irish politics, naturally. Witness the multitude of factions on this very site represented. Splitters!

For once a bit of truth, that the splitting is not restricted to militants. Have a bit of respect for ye lad.

And yes, the splits are a bit annoying.

But sure, even the IRSP was formed around a personality. Costello was expelled, unfairly, from the OIRA and couldn't go to the Provos, because he had pissed them off.

But sure that boy above joined the Eurps a long time after I was running around me area gettin a hiding for puttin up SF posters, which says it all.

Revisionist basterd

[costello1977]

Love the fact that I haven;t been challenged

[Soldier of life]

Policies? Aye, dead on. Policies from 1995? Give me one from off thier website that isn't from 1995/1999. I await this with baited breath.




Listen, see even if the hoods know, the real people on the streets know whats going on. The fact that you think it is Onh shows how little is filtered down to the likes of Sligo by YOUR own leadership. And you thought I didn't know.







As Sean Garland, whose case of extradition is coming up where the OIRA is, and that will reveal something to ya lol.

I will tell ya this, I have spoken to WP members TONIGHT and they admit that there is "NO WP ALIGNED OIRA". I'll take their word over a clown like you.






So pointing out the problems within the communitcations system of your party means Im a partitionist? Aye, dead on. Clown. The fact is that your southern party doesn't know what yer northern part is at lol That is a reality no matter what terminology you try to undermine it with.





I think Ive handled this debate quite well. Im not the one who came on and attacked the IRA, you did. Tell ya what,by sources from your town, which I have alluded to, your a bit of a drug taking ball bag nuisance so I think Im one up on this debate from a start because Im a grown up.

HA HA and your a scared to go for a drink in Ardoyne lol

Sorry for the delay in posting, my life doesn't revolve around the internet.

I see you've turned into quite the internet warrior while I've been away.

Here is a very simple rebuttal to you.

You asked for a policy from the IRSP that isn't from 1995/1999 Here you go, no less than 19 for you, and all from the year 2010:

http://www.irsp.ie/programme/

You really have no idea what you're talking about.

[Black Sheep]

Is this the same IRA?
IRA is fighting to liberate the northen part of ireland,that is under the UK, right?

[costello1977]

Sorry for the delay in posting, my life doesn't revolve around the internet.

I don't think anyones does, well apart from those who work on it, but I would gather from the inactivity of your party that it could be......


I see you've turned into quite the internet warrior while I've been away.

Sure isn't that the only ones left in the IRSP?


Here is a very simple rebuttal to you.

You asked for a policy from the IRSP that isn't from 1995/1999 Here you go, no less than 19 for you, and all from the year 2010:

http://www.irsp.ie/programme/

You really have no idea what you're talking about.

I have both documents in my possession, as Fionntan will tell ye but they are just lip service to socialism, and it is a sad indictment on the IRSP that it has been taken over by liberal minded marxists and ring road socialists.

Im sitting here laughing at the fact that you've given posters a link two new policy documents, both of which are affirmations of party policies from it's inception. With sections like "James Connolly" for example, how could it be new and fresh thinking to say that James Connolly is the best ever, when Costello did that? And the issue of the broad front, Costello started the party on the principle, the broad front he talked of is the same one that the IRSP talked of.

Nothing in those two documents, with exception to some of the time related articles for example the titanic quarter issue, is new thinking and is viewed as it was 10 years ago. Its not new revolutionary thinking, its just Costello's revolutionary thinking.

No doubt if I was to say that there was nothing of relevance to Costello, it would provoke the same reaction as saying it was just reanimation of his thinking, which, needless to say, would be hostile.

What I can understand is how so called Marxists who put Connolly up on a pedestal, and Costello and Power, and Lenin and Stalin etc etc can vilify religion for idolotry when they are as guilty in regards to idolotry.

[Soldier of life]

I don't think anyones does, well apart from those who work on it, but I would gather from the inactivity of your party that it could be......



Sure isn't that the only ones left in the IRSP?



I have both documents in my possession, as Fionntan will tell ye but they are just lip service to socialism, and it is a sad indictment on the IRSP that it has been taken over by liberal minded marxists and ring road socialists.

Im sitting here laughing at the fact that you've given posters a link two new policy documents, both of which are affirmations of party policies from it's inception. With sections like "James Connolly" for example, how could it be new and fresh thinking to say that James Connolly is the best ever, when Costello did that? And the issue of the broad front, Costello started the party on the principle, the broad front he talked of is the same one that the IRSP talked of.

Nothing in those two documents, with exception to some of the time related articles for example the titanic quarter issue, is new thinking and is viewed as it was 10 years ago. Its not new revolutionary thinking, its just Costello's revolutionary thinking.

No doubt if I was to say that there was nothing of relevance to Costello, it would provoke the same reaction as saying it was just reanimation of his thinking, which, needless to say, would be hostile.

What I can understand is how so called Marxists who put Connolly up on a pedestal, and Costello and Power, and Lenin and Stalin etc etc can vilify religion for idolotry when they are as guilty in regards to idolotry.




You've been exposed as a bluffer. You asked for one new policy, I gave you several. For example the chapters on:

Health
The Global Crisis
Education
Housing
All-Ireland Rail Network
Education
The State and Civil Society

These are all completely new, not from 1995/1999.



You've no idea what you're talking about.

[costello1977]

You've been exposed as a bluffer. You asked for one new policy, I gave you several. For example the chapters on:

Health
The Global Crisis
Education
Housing
All-Ireland Rail Network
Education
The State and Civil Society

These are all completely new, not from 1995/1999.



You've no idea what you're talking about.

Im reading the first of those two documents, Republican Socialist Programme for Ireland, and it is a virtual rehash of everything Costello said and, for the most part, its nothing new.

The aim of the IRSP, as stated in this document, is nothing new. It was the same in 1974. Same as the Ireland: A nation. Neither are the sub sections on James Connolly or on the National Front, and theres no one would argue any different.

The two things I can find in that document relevant and new are the IRSP's double speaks on both the RUC/PSNI and Armed Struggle.

Firstly,the IRSP in this document say


However, the IRSP warns the community as a whole that the downside of such
contact could be the increase of police informers with the RUC/PSNI attempting
to make the policing institution more acceptable through a normalising of relations
by their involvement in day-to-day community activities.which runs contrary to their policing of engaging in community groups, who give the final say to the RUC/PSNI. I also have reservations about Republican Socialists engaging in cross community ventures with Loyalists and British Supremists, who for decades murdered unarmed catholics. Very hypocritical to call on the community not to communicate with the RUC/PSNI, when you do.


Also, with regards to armed struggle, I find it hypocritical to come on here and spew nonsense against Irish Republicans like the RIRA or the CIRA, when your party says


However, the IRSP recognises the right of the Irish people to
engage in whatever form of struggle it deems appropriate.Now, correct me if Im wrong, but if you agree with their right to use armed struggle, surely coming on and vilifying republicans for exercising this right is hypocritical. Also, Costello believed that the army came first, how can putting the cart before the horse run concurrent with his believes?


As for the second document, Ill address it in a different post.

[costello1977]

You've been exposed as a bluffer. You asked for one new policy, I gave you several. For example the chapters on:

Good,I was waiting for the opportunity.


Health

The sticks called for an All Ireland health service in the 70s. Hardly revolutionary to start rehashing sticky sentiment from the 70s, is it?



The Global Crisis

Can't argue over that one, the global crisis is constantly changing, so it is important for a party to stay fresh.


Education

No harm, but that read near enough exactly like several documents that the sticks put out about education in the North in the 70's. I don't find that to be anything new.


Housing

I can't knock the IRSP on housing. Up my way, they do an awful lot of good work,which they have been doing for years. But that isnt a new policy, its putting an already existing practice into words, or more words in this case. I remember a certain Irp from Belfast calling for an All Ireland Housing commission near five years ago in Ardoyne at a Housing meeting.


All-Ireland Rail Network

So, stealing the idea from 2007 and SF is revolutionary?

http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/9847

They beat you to it. Same basic principle. I wouldn't be too fast to claim rehashing good SF ideas as your own.



Education

Put this is twice? Was this meant to be an ironic indictment of the education system here?


The State and Civil Society

Thats not new, that policy was a statement of the intention of the IRSP to


establish a thirty-two-county democratic socialist republic with the
working class in control of the means of production, distribution and
exchange.

Which is the exact same as


It was unanimously agreed that the objective of the Party would be to "END IMPERIALIST RULE IN IRELAND, and ESTABLISH A 32 COUNTY DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST REPUBLIC WITH THE WORKING CLASS IN CONTROL OF THE MEANS OF PRODUCTION, DISTRIBUTION AND EXCHANGE".

And that is a quote from the IRSP's founding statement.



These are all completely new, not from 1995/1999.


You've no idea what you're talking about.

Not really that new when some of them have been stolen from other parties and yer past.

Running round kneecapping hoods and rehashing the sticks old documents, which in my opinion is supplanting the sticks in Belfast etc etc, isn't revolutionary in the slightest.