Newbie questions

[AmericanSocialist]

I have many questions when it comes to Socialism.

First what is the difference between Socialism and Communism?

Why do many associate socalism with totalitarian regimes?

Is marxism considered to be different from Socialism?

Can one be a supporter of Mao, Stalin, Castro, Hugo Chavez, and other such people?

Before I just thought there was Socialism and it was that simple, but since coming to this forum I have noticed there seems to be some political differences.

thanks for the help

[Broletariat]

I have many questions when it comes to Socialism.

That's what we're here for


First what is the difference between Socialism and Communism?

There is none, Marx never made any demarcation of the difference between the two and used them interchangeably


Why do many associate socalism with totalitarian regimes?Because those regimes, typically not as bad as often claimed, called themselves such.


Is marxism considered to be different from Socialism?I would say that Socialism is a blanket term that Anarchism can also fall under that Marxism is separate from.


Can one be a supporter of Mao, Stalin, Castro, Hugo Chavez, and other such people?One can be a supporter of anyone you like. And plenty of Socialists support those figures.


Before I just thought there was Socialism and it was that simple, but since coming to this forum I have noticed there seems to be some political differences.

thanks for the helpYes there are quite a few differences and I could try to help explain some of them if you'd like to inquire about any of the specific tendencies, but I'd recommend learning the basics before indulging in the sectarian mess that will inevitably result from asking such a question.

And you're welcome

[Sensible Socialist]

I have many questions when it comes to Socialism.

First what is the difference between Socialism and Communism?
Socialism is the transitionary phase to communism, in which the means of production will come under the control of workers, and monetary pay would be given out based on work. Communism entails a stateless and classless society in which you give as you can and take as you need.


Why do many associate socalism with totalitarian regimes?
Many totalitarian regimes have proclaimed to be socialist, although have failed in their attemps.


Is marxism considered to be different from Socialism?
You can be a socialist without being a Marxist.


Can one be a supporter of Mao, Stalin, Castro, Hugo Chavez, and other such people?
Yes.


Before I just thought there was Socialism and it was that simple, but since coming to this forum I have noticed there seems to be some political differences.

thanks for the help
There are many different groups, or "tendencies." You can join one of the many groups here. Most, if not all, contain valuable information on tendencies and their differences.

[AmericanSocialist]

Thank you very much for the reply. It helped me understand a little more. As a follow up question what would you recommend that I read or study in order to get knowledge of the basics of Socialism?

-J

[Magón]

First what is the difference between Socialism and Communism?

Depends on who you ask. For some, Socialism is the stepping stone between Capitalism and Communism. (Communism being the end result of it all, whether Anarchist or Marxist.)


Why do many associate socalism with totalitarian regimes?

Because most were/are?


Is marxism considered to be different from Socialism?

No.


Can one be a supporter of Mao, Stalin, Castro, Hugo Chavez, and other such people?

Depends on what type of Socialist you are? Personally, I'm a Libertarian Socialist, (a name of many,) and don't support Mao, Stalin, Castro, and have very little hope in Chavez, even though he seems to be the most lenient of the choices you've said.


Before I just thought there was Socialism and it was that simple, but since coming to this forum I have noticed there seems to be some political differences.

thanks for the help

There are lots of different isms and the like. Stick around and you'll learn about them all in one way or another. :)

[Comrade1]

Just one edit to the previous responce

Between capitalist and communist society there lies the period of the
revolutionary transformation of the one into the other. Corresponding
to this is also a political transition period in which the state can be
nothing but _the revolutionary dictatorship of the proletariat_. -Karl Marx

He never called the transition socialism but Marx did advocate one. So many people say socialism is the transition between capitalism and communism.

[Broletariat]

Thank you very much for the reply. It helped me understand a little more. As a follow up question what would you recommend that I read or study in order to get knowledge of the basics of Socialism?

-J
Glance over Kropotkin's Mutual Aid Read his The Conquest of Bread. Check out Engel's Principles of Communism. For some basic economics, try Marx's Wage, Labour and Capital. And of course we'll always be here.

[Tablo]

I have many questions when it comes to Socialism.

First what is the difference between Socialism and Communism?
Socialism is an economic system that refers to democratic economic control while communism is a stateless classless societal structure focused around communes and socialist gift economics.


Why do many associate socalism with totalitarian regimes? Because many totalitarian regimes have claimed to uphold the Marxist use of the term socialism(which is the dictatorship of the proletariat). I disagree though and think Marx would have rejected all those regimes(personal opinion).


Is marxism considered to be different from Socialism?Marxism refers to political theory formulated by Marx and Engels while socialism is an economic system.


Can one be a supporter of Mao, Stalin, Castro, Hugo Chavez, and other such people?A person is certainly capable of it.


Before I just thought there was Socialism and it was that simple, but since coming to this forum I have noticed there seems to be some political differences.

thanks for the help
Yeah, it is a bit more complex than most think. Also, when reading my response recognize I'm an Anarchist and amongst the different groups on this site we have differing definitions for terms such as socialism. My definition of socialism is different from the Marxist definition.

Also, welcome to the site! :)

[BIG BROTHER]

Just to warn you every tendency will give you different answers based on their own analysis. Mine is one of a Trotkyst, we consider ourselves the legitimate continuation of Marxism and Leninism and the struggle of the working class for communism.


I have many questions when it comes to Socialism.


Shoot my friend!



First what is the difference between Socialism and Communism?



Communism is and I quote a "stateless, classless society" based on a move of "from each according to their ability, to each according to their need"

In English it means that there will be unprecedented amounts of wealth available to everyone, an unprecedented amount of freedom, etc



Why do many associate socalism with totalitarian regimes?


Many different reasons. For one the Bourgoisie like to slander Socialism any time they can out of fear of a revolution, not because they care about freedom or liberty...

Also due to different reasons, "totalitarian" regimes did arise in Rusia, Eastern Europe, etc. But this not inherent from Socialism.
A privileged elite rose out of the Soviet Union due to its isolation, its misery, the weak state of the working class in Rusia after years of civil war, and the failure of other Revolutions to win and thus be able to support their Russian comrades when the burocracy arose.

FYI if you wanna know more about this PM, its pretty long topic but very important to understand.





Is marxism considered to be different from Socialism?



Marxism is a specific brand of Socialism. As Marx and Engels called it its "Scientific Socialism"

Socialism itself is an umbrella term that is used by different tendencies.



Can one be a supporter of Mao, Stalin, Castro, Hugo Chavez, and other such people?


Depends on what your analysis is of them and the class/movement they represent.

I don't support Mao because I consider him a Stalinist and I think the current situation of China is proof of his failed ideology.

I don't support Stalin, he is part of the burocracy that rose in Russia and effectively carried out reactionary policies that ultimetally lead to the return of capitalism in Russia

Having that said, the progressive gains of China such as the collective property that still remains, the public ownership of the land, etc must be defended against Capitalism and the burocracts who are selling them out.

Our stance in the Soviet Union was similar, we defended it to death against Imperialism but advocated a political revolution against the burocracy.

I support Chavez critically, he wouldn't be in power without the support of the proletariat and he has responded by carrying out reforms that they demand. However he has also carried out some reactionary or burocratic actions.




Before I just thought there was Socialism and it was that simple, but since coming to this forum I have noticed there seems to be some political differences.

thanks for the help

Yes, there are many different tendiencies. What I suggest you do is the following.

Learn what they have to say, but in order for you to figure which one is right you must read about the history of the class struggle, see what has worked, what hasn't, what has lead the working class to victory?, what has lead it to defeat? what do different revolutionaries have to say about the Soviet Union, Spain during the revolution, Cuba etc...

and even more important get active in the class struggle only when you experience theory in real life will you be able to see what its really all about!

[Aurora]

He never called the transition socialism but Marx did advocate one. So many people say socialism is the transition between capitalism and communism.
Many people say that yes but i believe they are incorrect, when marx says 'between capitalist and communist society' he's talking about the 'lower phase' of communism what we refer to as socialism nowadays. So between capitalism and socialism there lies the DOTP.

[Comrade1]

Many people say that yes but i believe they are incorrect, when marx says 'between capitalist and communist society' he's talking about the 'lower phase' of communism what we refer to as socialism nowadays. So between capitalism and socialism there lies the DOTP.
Though he never called the transition socialism, thats what it has become. And your last sentance, there is no transition between capitalism and "socialism"

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

First what is the difference between Socialism and Communism?

Socialism refers to the centralization of production in the hands of "proletarian dictatorship" (historically, this has been the party-state), whereas communism refers to the stateles/classless society "beyond" socialism.


Why do many associate socialism with totalitarian regimes?

'Cos that's what they've been, more-or-less without exception. It's a funny thing about trying to realize the full "potential" of the industrial/modernist/liberal-revolution project . . . it more or less pans out how you'd expect.


Is marxism considered to be different from Socialism?

Both are so broad as to basically be useless in any general sense. Autonomist Marxism, for example, is different from Marxism-Leninism-Mao Zedong Thought, is different for "Democratic Socialism" is different from whatever the fuck that mess in Cambodia was. Etc.



Can one be a supporter of Mao, Stalin, Castro, Hugo Chavez, and other such people?

If one is a douchebag, yes.
Critical engagement with the thought of such people is, I think worth while, but what does being a "supporter" even entail? Especially when half those fuckers are long-dead? Rapid uncritical defense of their legacies?



Before I just thought there was Socialism and it was that simple, but since coming to this forum I have noticed there seems to be some political differences.

Holy understatement.

[ComradeAV]

I have many questions when it comes to Socialism. Its ok thats what the forum is for comrade!:)

First what is the difference between Socialism and Communism?
Socialism is the stage between capitalism and communism.in this stage the motto is "each according to his ability, each according to his work. There will be vanguard party to protect the interests of the proletariat. Class struggle still continues in this stage. In communism the motto is each according to his ability,each according to his need. There is no state and there are no classes.
Why do many associate socalism with totalitarian regimes?
Capitalist lies. There is in reality no such thing as totalitarianism, but if there is capitalism is much closer to it than any socialist or supposedly socialist state.
Is marxism considered to be different from Socialism?No

Can one be a supporter of Mao, Stalin, Castro, Hugo Chavez, and other such people?None of these leaders are bad per se,they all did something to improve the conditions of the poor in their country. However from my perspective only stalin is a true socialist. Mao was radical progressive who had revisionist tendencies with his three-world theory and his diplomacy with nixon. Castro and chavez are just progressives or social-democrats.

Before I just thought there was Socialism and it was that simple, but since coming to this forum I have noticed there seems to be some political differences. Socialism is a science, I encourage you to read up on marx and engels at this point, start with the mainfesto and work your way up from there. Ask me any other questions and feel free PM if you need any other help understanding marxism.

thanks for the helpYour welcome, feel free to ask anything else

[Zanthorus]

First what is the difference between Socialism and Communism?

During the 1840's when Marx and Engels first became involved in political work, the socialist movement largely consisted of sects of utopian thinkers trying to push their detailed blueprints of future societies. These kind of groups would ignore the working-class as a vehicle of social change and a living actor in history, and instead only considered it insofar as it's poverty revealed the evils of capitalist society. Many tendencies condemned struggles for higher wages and combination into trade-unions as reformist. In this context, Marx and Engels differentiated themselves, the Communists, from the various brands of then-existing 'socialism', which either believed in reforming away the evils of capitalist society, or did not look towards the movement of the working-class and it's collective organisation against capitalism as a movement towards Communism in embryo. Later on they dropped this, and began using the terms more freely, once utopianism was swept aside by the course of events.

Later Marxist thinkers asserted that there was a difference in Marx and Engels between socialism and communism as stages in human society. There is no direct textual evidence for this, however certain passages appear to contain similar ideas. The first is that quoted by Comrade1 about the dictatorship of the proletariat. However, that the DotP is neither capitalism nor communism but the revolutionary transformation of one into the other does not imply that it is a new 'socialist' society. That would mean that the period of transition was in fact a brand new stable social formation, when in fact it is by it's nature unstable and transitory, with tendencies pulling in opposite directions towards the realisation of Communism or the restoration of capitalism. Others might see it as being the 'lower phase' of communism described by Marx as opposed to the 'higher phase'. But the difference between these two lies in the mode of distribution, not of production.

Historically, we could make a distinction between those who either supported the Second International line after 1914 or whose political careers ended before the SI became a bankrupt political formation, the 'Socialists', and those who abandoned the social-chauvinist ship and joined the Communist International. Hence for instance the difference between 'Left-Socialism', those on the left of the Second International, and 'Left-Communism', those on the left of the Third International. Although this would ignore such phenomenon as 'Anarcho-Communism', which both predates and was never associated with the Comintern. More broadly we might be able to say that those describing themselves as socialists tend to be more opportunistic or reformist than those describing themselves as communists. However this would fail to take into account the existence of groups like the Socialist Party of Great Britain whose politics involve some serious extremist posturing, or the EuroCommunists who are practically indistuinguishable from Social-Democrats.

In general, I don't think any fundamental universal distinction can be made. In certain contexts it might be useful to make a distinction, particularly, as I have mentioned, historically such as that between the Marx-Engels current and their opponents, or that between the members and supporters of the Second and Third Internationals. However anyone claiming that they can make a hard and fast distinction is probably either ignorant or lying.

[Aurora]

And your last sentance, there is no transition between capitalism and "socialism"
I disagree and i believe Marx and Engels did too:

"the majority of the Commune was in no sense socialist, nor could it be."
"Look at the Paris Commune. That was the Dictatorship of the Proletariat."

If only a minority of the commune was socialist then the rest must have been capitalist from whence it came and that is the definition of the dictatorship of the proletariat, the revolutionary transformation of the one society into another.

Socialism refers to the centralization of production in the hands of "proletarian dictatorship"
This is the typical stalinist view yes, that of 'socialism in one country'.
Of course this is completely contradictory, if socialism had been realized there would no longer be a need for the dictatorship whose purpose is to repress. As soon as it is possible to speak of socialism there will be no classes and hence no dictatorship.