The Politics of Obama

[Across The Street]

I have a question for all those knowledgeable about Social Democracy and its' history.

Could Obama be considered a social-democrat?

If so, I think he will seriously impede progress in the way of freedom for the world's people. Also, do those living in the U.S. believe that we are on the road to fascism, or has it been creeping up on us for a long time?

[DDR]

Obama a social democrat?????????????? Seroiusly????????

Why you think so? because of the healthcare reform that's only good for the insurance companies?

If he was a SD he would made a full free universal healthcare system Old Europe style. Also we would took down the Bush tax cuts.

For the road to fascism, c'mon, who's gonna put fascism in the US goverment, the tea baggers?

[Across The Street]

C'mon man, fascism creeps upon a people, I could point to a large number of issues in modern society that make me follow that line of thought. For instance, the amount of racism in the U.S. is pretty out of hand, and it's a subtle, just-beneath-the-surface racism I encounter everywhere I go. The amount of surveillance being conducted on U.S. citizens is unprecedented in world history, mainly due to technology, but also due to laws being passed which make everyone a potential terrorist. This is a subject I've studied my whole life, I can debate with you for hours. Besides the FBI raids that occured in Minnesota, Illinois, Michigan, and North Carolina just this past year, there have been numerous raids just like this, only instead of taking out organized anti-war groups, they target individuals in communities. The federal government no longer cares about the rights of citizens or the rule of law. We shouldn't even use the word fascism to describe the state we're in over here, it's something more insidious that's embedded within. The seeming insensitivity to violence we seem to possess is mind-boggling. If the rule of law no longer applies to our government and the police, how can we expect our enemies to obey the rules of war?

[FreeFocus]

Obama is not a social democrat. At all. You can make the case that someone like an FDR was, but Obama doesn't even have the backbone to implement New Deal-style reforms. What has he done in office? Passed pseudo-health reform? Expanded the murderous war in Afghanistan and Pakistan? Signed off on telecom immunity? Allowed for more media consolidation?

Social democrats typically co-opt a leftist movement. There was no meaningful leftist movement in the US to co-opt. Obama is not a social democrat.

[Raightning]

Obama's not a social democrat, whether you look at it practically, ideologically, socially, or any other number of words ending in lly. Of course, it's a bit of a murky term, particularly given social democrats in government tend to be difficult to distinguish from any other form of capitalist, but Obama fails to even pay lip-service to the ideas of equality and socialism and such (except for 'equality of opportunity' and similar fantasies) so he couldn't be termed a social democrat.

What do you mean when you talk about him possibly being a social democrat? I'm a little unsure as to how you're defining it, and I'm curious.

[Dimentio]

I have a question for all those knowledgeable about Social Democracy and its' history.

Could Obama be considered a social-democrat?

If so, I think he will seriously impede progress in the way of freedom for the world's people. Also, do those living in the U.S. believe that we are on the road to fascism, or has it been creeping up on us for a long time?

No. In Sweden, Obama would have been unelectable, due to him being a right-winger. The current (conservative) prime minister of Sweden is only prime minister because he promised to keep the welfare state and started to call his party "the new worker party".

[Across The Street]

Well, Raightning, the reason I asked is because I know next to nothing about social democratic history. Most of my knowledge of radical politics comes from long-dead US anarchists, and from what I understand there has never been much of a social democratic thread in US politics, or at least they never deemed it much of a threat to even bother writing much about it. I'm not too knowledgeable about European or Soviet history either, which is where social democracy historically took root right? Anyway, I have pretty extensive knowledge in certain areas, but the reason I put this in learning was because I don't even have a proper definition of social democracy. All I know is that from what I have read, I don't like it at all, and I also don't like what Obama has done in office either. He even at one time said he would repeal the patriot act, which obviously never happened, but he has backed out on a hell of a lot of promises, if I can find the source for that particular promise I'll post it. If there ever arises a substantial mass movement again in the U.S. he will certainly not be on its' side, and from what little I know social democrats have also not stood on the side of mass movements, but hey, I'm here to learn, so if that's incorrect, can someone please point me in the direction of some good resources? Dimentio, are you saying that Sweden has social democrats in power? It's not that I'm too lazy to look this stuff up, I just figured a place for radical politics would have some people who know a substantial amount on the subject of social democratic thwarting of communist parties/mass movements, etc.

[ExUnoDisceOmnes]

I have a question for all those knowledgeable about Social Democracy and its' history.

Could Obama be considered a social-democrat?

If so, I think he will seriously impede progress in the way of freedom for the world's people. Also, do those living in the U.S. believe that we are on the road to fascism, or has it been creeping up on us for a long time?

I think that it's important to take a larger-world view on politics. As far as mainstream US politics go, Obama is left (Democrat). However, on a world scale he is moderate-far right. Looking at things from a world perspective, it is self-evident that he is leftist in absolutely no way.

[gestalt]

In the sense of serving as a political transition from capitalism to a measure of democratic socialism: of course not.


As far as mainstream US politics go, Obama is center-right (Democrat).

Fixed.

It is still sad to imagine the amount of grassroots, left populism and activism which was wasted on electing yet another neoliberal hawk. Even though those of use on the true left expected nothing different from previous administrations, a generation of potential radicals may be disillusioned due to these outright and inevitable failures.

Enacting social democratic or even New Deal-esque reforms could have been even more detrimental to the prospects of the global working class as it would have the same effect as FDR's policies: a measure of relief in the short term but ultimately prolonging the internal contradictions of capitalism long enough for reactionary tendencies to take hold. All done under the auspice of "saving capitalism from the capitalists."

Of course by taking the opposite position of bailing out major corporations through "stimulus," mandated private healthcare and continuation of imperialist efforts only serves to prop up the inherently flawed system as well.

That said, the right-wing misinformation and mass perception of Obama as a "socialist/communist/(insert other misapplied term)" is real, and in this he is considered, quite erroneously, to be a "social democrat."

[ExUnoDisceOmnes]

In the sense of serving as a political transition from capitalism to a measure of democratic socialism: of course not.



Fixed.

It is still sad to imagine the amount of grassroots, left populism and activism which was wasted on electing yet another neoliberal hawk. Even though those of use on the true left expected nothing different from previous administrations, a generation of potential radicals may be disillusioned due to these outright and inevitable failures.

Enacting social democratic or even New Deal-esque reforms could have been even more detrimental to the prospects of the global working class as it would have the same effect as FDR's policies: a measure of relief in the short term but ultimately prolonging the internal contradictions of capitalism long enough for reactionary tendencies to take hold. All done under the auspice of "saving capitalism from the capitalists."

Of course by taking the opposite position of bailing out major corporations through "stimulus," mandated private healthcare and continuation of imperialist efforts only serves to prop up the inherently flawed system as well.

That said, the right-wing misinformation and mass perception of Obama as a "socialist/communist/(insert other misapplied term)" is real, and in this he is considered, quite erroneously, to be a "social democrat."

Out of the two major voting parties in the United states, the Democrats are further left than the Republicans.

I'm an American, and, from my experience, whenever ANYBODY refers to the "left wing" or "left" they're talking about Democrats. I was pointing out the need for international perspective when analyzing what "left" actually is.

[gestalt]

Relatively, or marginally, speaking and using the media vernacular: yes.

Then again you have to delve into the political fringe to find many further right than the current incarnation of the GOP, including the likes of the "Libertarian" Party or the Constitutionalists.

But even in the recent American tradition, the Democrats have been the centrist, liberal, party of reformed capitalism. There are some leftists among the ranks (or caucus with them) like Kucinich or Sanders, but most Democrats are yellow dogs and represent the moderate-to-conservative base of the party. However, over the last thirty years they have tended even further right.

Rest assured I am not disagreeing with you that when people colloquially use the term "left" in American politics they mean the Democrats. Only asserting that Obama does not even occupy the left constituency of his own party. On an international scale he's even to the right of the Tories and you correctly assessed that.

[Lucretia]

I have a question for all those knowledgeable about Social Democracy and its' history.

Could Obama be considered a social-democrat?

If so, I think he will seriously impede progress in the way of freedom for the world's people. Also, do those living in the U.S. believe that we are on the road to fascism, or has it been creeping up on us for a long time?

Obama is way to the right of countries that are considered to be "social democracies" in the sense of providing an expansive safety net to their citizens. Not to mention that every day those countries are pushing austerity in a way that makes them less and less "social" in their liberalism. The point being that there are fewer social democrats as time goes on, and Obama is certainly not one of them.

[Across The Street]

Thanks for the replies, it seems pretty obvious now that Obama cannot be considered a social-democrat, I just know so little on the subject, I suppose I should have a done a little research before asking the question.


Gestalt: "Even though those of use on the true left expected nothing different from previous administrations, a generation of potential radicals may be disillusioned due to these outright and inevitable failures."

It has become pretty clear to me in my lifetime that no political candidates from the two major parties have the peoples' interests in mind. I wasn't able to vote in this election because I was behind bars, but if I were able, I have to say I probably would have voted for Obama. That being said, I've somewhat tried to follow his presidency, and can firmly say that I have nothing but contempt for the weak attempts at even reform that he has attempted. Not to mention he has backed out on almost every promise he made in running. I guess I'm really not surprised, just mad at myself for believing in something I knew to be fraudulent. Real hope comes from the changes everybody in the world desperately wants, and I'm back to believing that these changes will come from the people, ourselves.

[gestalt]

The widespread realization of the futility of bourgeois politics may be the greatest, unintended and most useful by-product of this administration. Unfortunately we on the left have been somewhat ineffectual so far in redirecting this dissent in a manner truly beneficial to the majority, while reactionary forces succeeding in rebranding a dead ideology and riding the wave to midterm victory.

[ev]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJejoRmbnsA

http://persuasiveweb.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/obama-yes-we-can_04-nov-08.jpg

[Proukunin]

Obama is just a pure liberal reformist. I dont agree with him because of his capitalistic views and reformism in general. I like the idea of reform but I just believe it is not enough to change a society of conservative tradition into a liberated remformist society. you HAVE to have revolution. I actually used to believe in liberal pacifist ideals, but about 6 months ago I read The Communist Manifesto and 'fell in love' with Marx. :D

[TheGeekySocialist]

I regard him as on the Left of the Neo Liberal establishment in the USA, which in general terms puts him at best Centre Right