How did the wild west come to an end?

[John "Eh" MacDonald]

I've been playing read dead redemption for 3 days straight with little to no sleep so you can guess i have the whole tetris effect going on.

I'm curious how the old west did come to an end. I heard theories that barbwire was the reason but that doesn't seem plausible. any of you know?

BTW my hearts doing really wierd shit right now probably due to lack of sleep, so if i dont post for a while it probably means i had some kind of heart failure realated death.

[Tower of Bebel]

Barbwire in the sense of the First World War is an explanation, but in reality the Old West ended both in the geographical and social sense with the vast expansion of industrial society after the 1880's. From such a point of view the War was more a less a product of a revolutionary change that was already going on for more than 30 yeard. It changed the country in demographic ways too, making the West less attractive and a lot poorer than the cities. Police and army became more potent, cattle became less important and gold and other riches of the earth were better of in the hands of capitalist monopolies than (lots of) individuals.

[Fawkes]

A contributing factor would be the decimation of American Indian populations, instilling more of a general sense of "peace" to the region.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I don't know how "wild west" is defined, but there was a settlement phase where the US gave stolen land to people and many immigrants and workers after the civil war set up homesteads. The country had land and resources, but no surplus labor to build industry on so land was given to many homesteaders and people were encouraged to migrate, but once the populations grew larger, these small farmers or gold-seekers became the workers for mining and farming industries. Like the "wild west" of the internet, once industry could make a profit from cattle and so on in these areas, these "open" lands were divided up for profit-making enterprises... this era led to the "Robber Barrons" who often made their fortunes because of generous land-deals by the government... railroads, ranchers, growers, and eventually steel and oil.

But how could anyone hate these Gilded-Age capitalists who pulled themselves up by their bootstraps:

http://bob520.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/jp-morgan2.jpg?w=593&h=380

[FreeFocus]

American imperialism came to the region as governments arose to govern American settlers in the West.

[Political_Chucky]

I don't get the barbed wire reference?

[Os Cangaceiros]

I don't get the barbed wire reference?

"Cowboys" are the most iconic figures of the Old West. They were people who drove cattle across wide swathes of open terrain. When ranchers started erecting barb wire all over the landscape they were unable to continue doing this. There used to be violent feuds between ranchers and cowboys when the latter started trying to cut through the fences with wire cutters, but by then it was already too late for their way of life.

[Political_Chucky]

"Cowboys" are the most iconic figures of the Old West. They were people who drove cattle across wide swathes of open terrain. When ranchers started erecting barb wire all over the landscape they were unable to continue doing this. There used to be violent feuds between ranchers and cowboys when the latter started trying to cut through the fences with wire cutters, but by then it was already too late for their way of life.

Really? Barbed wire?! ahh come on, there gotta be a better story then that. Clint Eastwood, John Wayne, and Maverick wouldn't let barbed wire stop them!

http://www.cultnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/05/melmaverick.jpeg



Btw, john Macdonald, i'm jealous of you. I've been waiting for Red Dead Redemption to get ported over to the PC, but no luck so far :|

[Os Cangaceiros]

Really? Barbed wire?! ahh come on, there gotta be a better story then that. Clint Eastwood, John Wayne, and Maverick wouldn't let barbed wire stop them!

It wasn't just barbed wire. The barbed wire was the most evident sign of the West turning from a huge territory where cattle herders had free reign into an area defined by enclosed spaces of non-infringable property, both private and public (the West to this day still has a massive amount of Federal land).

[Pirate Utopian]

I blame Edgar Ross. John Marston was the last wild west hero.

[Sarah Palin]

American imperialism came to the region

wow thanks for the original thought

[Sarah Palin]

tho red dead is seriously the best game I've ever played.

[Pirate Utopian]

Did anyone else get that each chapter of RDR is supposed to represent a different era of western movies? I got it from the internet but still.

The first chapter with Williamson is the John Wayne-type, classic western with all the cacti, black-and-white morality and small American towns.
Movies like Shane or El Dorado.

The second chapter in Mexico is the 60s western, more violent, black-and-grey morality, set in Mexico and touches on revolution.
Movies like The Good, The Bad and The Ugly and Django.

The third chapter with Ross is the modern western. Non-desert landscapes, even snow, grey-and-gray morality and a relatively modern city.
Movies like Unforgiven and The Coward Robert Ford.

[Political_Chucky]

Did anyone else get that each chapter of RDR is supposed to represent a different era of western movies? I got it from the internet but still.

The first chapter with Williamson is the John Wayne-type, classic western with all the cacti, black-and-white morality and small American towns.
Movies like Shane or El Dorado.

The second chapter in Mexico is the 60s western, more violent, black-and-grey morality, set in Mexico and touches on revolution.
Movies like The Good, The Bad and The Ugly and Django.

The third chapter with Ross is the modern western. Non-desert landscapes, even snow, grey-and-gray morality and a relatively modern city.
Movies like Unforgiven and The Coward Robert Ford.

I'm jealous of anyone playing it now from this description. Fucking Rockstar games fucking sucks! They won't port this game to the pc, and I tried buying gta episodes liberty city today, and it won't fucking work without another graphics card... :|

[Tablo]

tho red dead is seriously the best game I've ever played.It isn't that good. Certainly amongst the better recent releases though.

[Rusty Shackleford]

ive been playing Fallout New Vegas non stop.

how did the wasteland come to an end?


oh wait.

[Tablo]

New Vegas is awesome. Can't wait to see the mods around for my second playthrough.

[Rusty Shackleford]

since im low on gas and i dont get paid for a few days im just gonna start over and play in hardcore and go insurrecto and see how far i can get the powder gangers.

gotta get it out of my system fast haha.

[synthesis]

Did anyone else get that each chapter of RDR is supposed to represent a different era of western movies? I got it from the internet but still.

The first chapter with Williamson is the John Wayne-type, classic western with all the cacti, black-and-white morality and small American towns.
Movies like Shane or El Dorado.

The second chapter in Mexico is the 60s western, more violent, black-and-grey morality, set in Mexico and touches on revolution.
Movies like The Good, The Bad and The Ugly and Django.

The third chapter with Ross is the modern western. Non-desert landscapes, even snow, grey-and-gray morality and a relatively modern city.
Movies like Unforgiven and The Coward Robert Ford.

Damn! This is the most enlightening thing I've read on the Internet since I found out that the kid who killed Omar was the same one who was "playing Omar" in the third season.

[Pirate Utopian]

You mean on The Wire? Which episode?

[eyedrop]

I tried out New Vegas for about 10 hour and I can't fathom what people find fun about it.

So what makes it fun?

[Pavlov's House Party]

Damn! This is the most enlightening thing I've read on the Internet since I found out that the kid who killed Omar was the same one who was "playing Omar" in the third season.

FFFFUUUUUUUUUUUu-

That's why we have a spoiler thing!

[ComradeOm]

One of the interesting aspects about late Westerns (particularly the 60s onwards) is that they attempt to answer this question. Particular emphasis was placed on the train (think of Morton in Once Upon a Time in the West) as a symbol of progress, bringing 'civilisation' to the frontier. While I wouldn't ascribe it to any one factor, and certainly not barbed wire, there was a general encroaching of more settled society. More settlers brought increased urbanisation, better transport and communications, proto-industrial base, etc, etc. All of which required, or at least led to, increased state powers and regularisation of state institutions. Slowly the frontier disappeared and with it went many of the icons of the period

As I say, this sentiment comes through very strongly in a lot of Westerns where it gives a sort of poignant bitterness to proceedings. The heroic cowboy/frontiersman had helped to open up the West, yet the inevitable result of their success was that they made themselves obsolete and helped create a settled world in which they had no place. I've always read Sergio Leone's Once Upon a Time in America as suggesting the frontier had actually shifted east, to the crime-ridden streets of the urban 'Roaring Twenties'


New Vegas is awesome. Can't wait to see the mods around for my second playthrough.This (http://www.pcgamer.com/2010/11/02/25-best-fallout-new-vegas-mods/) may be of interest

[Sarah Palin]

You mean on The Wire? Which episode?

Fuckin wire man. Love that shit too much

[synthesis]

FFFFUUUUUUUUUUUu-

That's why we have a spoiler thing!

My bad! Seriously, my bad.

[synthesis]

You mean on The Wire? Which episode?

Not sure - kid's name is Kenard, if you wanna look it up.

[Ele'ill]

I'm curious how the old west did come to an end.


Dinosaurs.

[John "Eh" MacDonald]

Dinosaurs.

Whats up with the video in you sig other than being creepy?

[Robocommie]

I would cite No Country for Old Men and argue that the Wild West never ended.


I was sheriff of this county when I was twenty-five years old. Hard to believe. My grandfather was a lawman; father too. Me and him was sheriffs at the same time; him up in Plano and me out here. I think he's pretty proud of that. I know I was. Some of the old time sheriffs never even wore a gun. A lotta folks find that hard to believe. Jim Scarborough'd never carry one; that's the younger Jim. Gaston Boykins wouldn't wear one up in Camanche County. I always liked to hear about the oldtimers. Never missed a chance to do so. You can't help but compare yourself against the oldtimers. Can't help but wonder how theyd've operated these times. There was this boy I sent to the 'lectric chair at Huntsville Hill here a while back. My arrest and my testimony. He killt a fourteen-year-old girl. Papers said it was a crime of passion but he told me there wasn't any passion to it. Told me that he'd been planning to kill somebody for about as long as he could remember. Said that if they turned him out he'd do it again. Said he knew he was going to hell. Be there in about fifteen minutes. I don't know what to make of that. I sure don't. The crime you see now, it's hard to even take its measure. It's not that I'm afraid of it. I always knew you had to be willing to die to even do this job. But, I don't want to push my chips forward and go out and meet something I don't understand. A man would have to put his soul at hazard. He'd have to say, "Okay. I'll be part of this world."

[Angry Young Man]

Did anyone else get that each chapter of RDR is supposed to represent a different era of western movies? I got it from the internet but still.

Is there a Blazing Saddles chapter?

[Pirate Utopian]

I knew the little kid was Kenard. I've seen the whole Wire twice. I just don't remember Omar as a child.


Is there a Blazing Saddles chapter?

I thought West Dickens, Seth and Irish were funny. They're all in the first chapter.

[synthesis]

I knew the little kid was Kenard. I've seen the whole Wire twice. I just don't remember Omar as a child.

Oh, no, sorry, I wasn't very clear. There actually is some extra stuff with Omar as a child (the prequel episodes, not part of the main series but they're out there) but I meant the kid that's on the sidewalk saying "bang bang, I'm Omar!" in the third season and Bunk tells Omar about it later to guilt-trip him.

[Ele'ill]

Whats up with the video in you sig other than being creepy?

It's the River Tam sessions from the tv series Firefly (and the movie Serenity). It was/is my all time favorite tv series.

[Pirate Utopian]

Oh, no, sorry, I wasn't very clear. There actually is some extra stuff with Omar as a child (the prequel episodes, not part of the main series but they're out there) but I meant the kid that's on the sidewalk saying "bang bang, I'm Omar!" in the third season and Bunk tells Omar about it later to guilt-trip him.

Oh yeah I remember that.

[Salyut]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson_County_Range_War