Kwanzaa

[ComradeMan]

I had never heard of Kwanzaa before and then noticed it being mentioned on RevLeft etc by US members so I took a look.

I found its principles.



Umoja (Unity): To strive for and to maintain unity in the family, community, nation, and race.
Kujichagulia (Self-Determination): To define ourselves, name ourselves, create for ourselves, and speak for ourselves.
Ujima (Collective Work and Responsibility): To build and maintain our community together and make our brothers' and sisters' problems our problems, and to solve them together.
Ujamaa (Cooperative Economics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative_economics)): To build and maintain our own stores, shops, and other businesses and to profit from them together.
Nia (Purpose): To make our collective vocation the building and developing of our community in order to restore our people to their traditional greatness.
Kuumba (Creativity): To do always as much as we can, in the way we can, in order to leave our community more beautiful and beneficial than we inherited it.
Imani (Faith): To believe with all our heart in our people, our parents, our teachers, our leaders, and the righteousness and victory of our struggle.

A few questions.

Is this a religion or a philosophy or an organisation- or a combination? It's not clear looking around on the net.

Also, don't the principles in bold, umoja, ujamaa and imani sound a bit conservative or positively reactionary sounding?

To strive for and to maintain unity in the family, community, nation, and race.

This sounds postively Third Reichish.:crying:

However given the history of black people in America I can also kind of understand why some of the community might feel the way it does.

Do any US members here have any insights?

[#FF0000]

Kwanzaa's a holiday like Hanukkah and Christmas. Not every (read: many, in my experience) people celebrate it.

[ComradeMan]

Kwanzaa's a holiday like Hanukkah and Christmas. Not every (read: many, in my experience) people celebrate it.

Okay, so it's just a celebration?

[#FF0000]

Yup. It's a lot like Hanukkah in that there are candles that are being lit over the course of like a week. I'm not sure of the specifics of it but it's one of those multi-day, candle lighting deals.

[FreeFocus]

Wow, it is absolutely disgusting to say that it sounds "Third Reichish." That is an unacceptable comparison. Black communities around the world have been devastated by European slavery and colonialism that destroyed the fabric of their societies. Moreover, capitalism has wreaked havoc in African-American communities - the drug epidemic and a lack of control over local resources (including stores) in their own communities.

It's not an inherently religious holiday. It's a cultural holiday for reconnecting diasporan Africans with more traditional African culture, and uses African history to inspire diasporan Africans to rebuild and improve their communities.

I really dislike this cultural arrogance and misunderstanding from the Left. I can't believe I just read that Kwanzaa is "Third Reichish." Disgusting, honestly.

[ComradeMan]

Wow, it is absolutely disgusting to say that it sounds "Third Reichish." That is an unacceptable comparison. Black communities around the world have been devastated by European slavery and colonialism that destroyed the fabric of their societies. Moreover, capitalism has wreaked havoc in African-American communities - the drug epidemic and a lack of control over local resources (including stores) in their own communities.

It's not an inherently religious holiday. It's a cultural holiday for reconnecting diasporan Africans with more traditional African culture, and uses African history to inspire diasporan Africans to rebuild and improve their communities.

I really dislike this cultural arrogance and misunderstanding from the Left. I can't believe I just read that Kwanzaa is "Third Reichish." Disgusting, honestly.

Stop getting emotional....

I said one principle bothered me from a leftist position, i.e. "umoja" sounded Third Reichish, I did not say Kwanzaa is per se a "nazi ideology" did I?

To strive for and to maintain unity in the family, community, nation, and race.

So what doesn't sound at least slightly reactionary or non-leftist about that principle?

I also mentioned that given the history of black people in America I could understand where they were coming from.

Do people actually ready the OP before going off in 5th gear at the green light?

[FreeFocus]

What's "non-leftist" is your comparison and lack of understanding of the African historical experience.

There's a difference between the nationalism of the oppressed and the nationalism of the oppressor.

[SpineyNorman]

What's "non-leftist" is your comparison and lack of understanding of the African historical experience.

There's a difference between the nationalism of the oppressed and the nationalism of the oppressor.

I think he's got a point though. It's a bit like the black seperatist movements in the US - it's easy to understand how they came to take up their political position but that does not make it any less reactionary. It accepts the narrative of the opposition/oppressor and reacts to it, forming itself into the mirror image of what it opposes.

I understand these people and sympethise with them in the same way that I sympethise with Palestinian supporters of Hamas - I understand why they have taken their position but would never act as an apologist for the dodgy practices/beliefs of the Hamas leadership.

I'm probably going to get flamed for this but I'll say it anyway. National Socialism was, for the German people (I refer to ordinary Germans here, not the manipulative leadership of the NSDAP), a reaction to the harsh conditions imposed on them by the treaty of versailles. People were starving as a direct result of this treaty (I'm simplifying a little here; the great depression played a significant part too) and their support for Hitler was based upon his promise to crush those who were oppressing Germany. (No, it wasn't the Jews who were opporessing the Germans, but this is how it was presented to them). If you were able to ask a German, shortly after Hitler's rise to power, whether Nazism was a nationalism of the oppressor or a nationalism of the oppressed, I guarantee that they would have said the latter.

I am not trying to claim there is an equivalence here; I am not saying that these people want to oppress anyone or anything like it, but there are paralels here that we would be foolish to ignore. Just because the position is understandable and defensive rather than offensive that doesn't make it any less reactionary.