Originally posted by
[email protected] 26 2003, 11:56 PM
Why not read Lenin and not the easy lies spread by anarchists?
What "easy lies" and which "anarchists" are you speaking of?
Prove to me Lenin was corrupt. Not by quotes but actions.
I don't recall anyone (even rightists) ever suggesting that Lenin was personally corrupt.
Who was the major player in the ending of WWI?
The working class in Petrograd and other Russian cities in February 1917; the Russian peasant conscript soldiers who deserted from 1916 to 1917.
Who lead the soviet government against 22 invading armies?
Every time this particular subject is mentioned, the number of "invading armies" grows faster than the infamous "coalition of the willing". As far as I know, the "invading armies" were: Imperial Germany, France, the United Kingdom, Japan, the United States, Poland, plus a group of Czech pows that sided with the domestic counter-revolution.
I actually don't recall now who was the nominal head of the Soviet government then...but everyone knew that Lenin called the shots.
Who stopped the Kronstadt rebellion in the middle of external war?
Definitely Lenin...though it's not something to brag about. By the way, I don't think there were any active hostilities taking place elsewhere in March of 1921...the Red Army was being demobilized at the time.
Who showed first the real connection between Hegel and Marx?
Is that a serious question? Obviously, Marx himself showed that "connection" many times, repeatedly saying that he was indebted to "that mighty thinker".
Who's brother was executed trying to assassinate the Tsar?
Like many young nihilists in the late 19th century, Lenin's elder brother was involved in a small conspiracy to assassinate Czar Alexander III (father of the last czar, Nicholas II). The conspiracy was broken up by the secret police and Lenin's brother was one of the participants who was executed...he was the one, by the way, who provided the technical expertise to build the bomb.
What that has to do with anything, much less "anarchist lies" beats me...as does, in fact, the purpose of this thread.
What's the point here???
One wonders what happened to the real peaccenicked?
From Freedom and Revolution: The Bolshevik experience (http://flag.blackened.net/revolt/rbr/freerev.html)
The Anarchists
On the 11th December Cheka and Lettish troops surrounded 26 anarchist strongholds in Moscow. The anarchists suffered 40 casualties and 500 were taken prisoner. On the 26th April similar raids were carried out in Petrograd. At this stage Dzershinsky (head of the Cheka) justified his action on the grounds that the anarchists had been preparing an insurrection and that in any event, most of those arrested proved to be criminal riff raff. He stressed that the Cheka had neither the mandate nor the desire to wage war on ideological anarchists. Yet documents(15) dating from the 13th June outlined that the department for counter revolution investigative section and intelligence unit had sections allocated to dealing with anarchists. The fact that 'ideological' Anarchists were under Cheka surveillance gives lie to the Bolshevik claim that they were only opposed to a 'criminal' element within the anarchist movement rather than anarchism itself.
While Leon Trotsky was saying in July 1921 "We do not imprison real anarchists. Those whom we hold in prison are not anarchists, but criminals and bandits who cover themselves up by claiming to be anarchists" (16), 13 anarchists were on hungerstrike in Moscow. Fortunately a French Syndicalist trade union delegation in the city heard of their plight and the prisoners were released (all but three were expelled from the USSR). Not so lucky was Fanyan Baron, a young anarchist woman, shot without trial, along with several others, on trumped up charges of counterfeiting Soviet bank notes (it was later proven that the counterfeiting was done by the Cheka itself). Unlucky also were the 30 or 40 anarchists living near Zhmirink who according to the soviet press in 1921 had been "discovered and liquidated". The last great mobilisation of anarchists occurred at the funeral of Kroptkin in February 1921 when 20,000 marched with placards and banners demanding, among other things, the release of anarchists from prison. From then on the suppression of anarchists became thorough and complete.
While there was opposition to the Cheka abuses from within the Bolshevik party, there was no institutional attempt to change its mode of operation. In any organisation, there is both a human and a structural element. Perhaps it could be argued that the abuses of Cheka were due to individual mistakes. If individuals are given unlimited power, including power over life and death, with no accountability, it's inevitable that a measure of excess and corruption will occur. Where this occurs it is up to the revolutionary organisation to make changes to prevent the same mistakes from being repeated. This is not what the Bolshevik party did. They continued to entrust individuals with unchecked power. They did not make any structural changes to the Cheka. Instead they occasionally rooted out the rotten human element, closing down certain branches, while leaving the edifice that engendered these abuses untouched.
Emma Goldman said, on escaping from Russia in 1921,
"I have never denied that violence is inevitable, nor do I gainsay it now. Yet it is one thing to employ violence in combat as a means of defence. It is quite another to make a principle of terrorism, to institutionalise it, to assign it the most vital place in the social struggle. Such terrorism begets counter-revolution and in turn becomes counter-revolutionary." (17)
Little wonder why anarchists are so hostile to Lenin and the Bolsheviks and other vanguardists, hey?
H.1.7 Haven't you read Lenin's "State and Revolution"? (http://www.anarchist-action.org/sections/anarchism/anarchistfaq/secH1.html#sech17)
H.3.3 Is Leninism "socialism from below"? (http://www.anarchist-action.org/sections/anarchism/anarchistfaq/secH3.html#sech33)
H.3.8 What is wrong with the Leninist theory of the state? (http://www.anarchist-action.org/sections/anarchism/anarchistfaq/secH3.html#sech38)
The Bolsheviks and Workers Control 1917 - 1921: The State and Counter-revolution. (http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/2163/bolintro.html)
Anarchism and the Russian Revolution. (http://flag.blackened.net/revolt/russia_wsm.html)
H.8 What is vanguardism and why do anarchists reject it? (http://www.anarchist-action.org/sections/anarchism/anarchistfaq/secH8.html)
There is several links there to keep you busy. 'Why do anarchists reject leninism and such?' should be answered.
I don't know how or why you want me to 'prove' that 'Lenin was corrupt'. I don't even know where you got the idea that anarchists actually claim that.
And for elijahcraig:
H.2.9 Do anarchists have "liberal" politics? (http://www.anarchist-action.org/sections/anarchism/anarchistfaq/secH2.html#sech29)