Build to the left, quickly!

[Die Neue Zeit]

http://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article1967



Partial quote of article by Tassos Anastassiadis, Andreas Sartzekis


Not so long ago the defeat of the right wing candidates in the municipal elections in the two major cities in Greece, Athens and Thessaloniki, would have been followed by scenes of popular enthusiasm in the streets throughout the night. There was nothing like that this time, when the right was defeated in cities where it had ruled for decades!

There are at least two reasons for this: the depth of the crisis and its impact on the lives of the majority of the population do not encourage enthusiasm for such “victories” and, linked to this, the fact that in the two cities, the two candidates were elected by approximately one sixth of the voters. The most visible lesson of the municipal and regional elections of November 7 and 14, notwithstanding comments from foreign newspapers on the alleged support of the population for the dominant party, was that they represented a scathing disavowal of PASOK and the right, although, despite encouraging results for the radical anti-capitalist left, a political alternative to the current governments has not yet emerged.

[...]

The KKE was presented as the main winner of these elections and this is largely correct. It must be said that it began its campaign a long time ago since it is in fact almost permanent. Indeed, the KKE favours mobilisations as the sole solution, not hesitating to accuse workers who do not vote for it of bolstering the "plutocracy”. In this systematic electoral campaign, it utilises a discourse which is in part anti-capitalist. But in part only, since arguments about “real”" patriotism have lately been employed, and the party continues to sow division, refusing any unity of action of workers: for it, the sole unitary framework is its PAME current, framed by itself, and on the “political scene”, the KKE presents itself as alone against everyone, it being understood that the radical left defends according to this party the capitalist system!

Nevertheless, once again its campaign found an echo and the KKE was able to attract young people. Its score in the regional elections was approximately 580,000 votes, or almost 11%, with a gain of 62,600 votes and 3.5% on 2009. Yet this increase should be put into perspective. First because it was not in the most industrialised regions that the KKE advanced most: the southern Aegean Islands (+ 6,000), central Greece (+ 12,000). It even lost votes in the north Aegean (-500) and above all, its progress in Attica was very modest: certainly, it scored 14.4% but it only won 6,000 extra votes, which is very little given PASOK’s losses and the gains made in the same area by Antarsya, namely + 23,000 votes. Similarly, the KKE won only a single municipality, the popular suburb of Petroupolis. Even though it is by far the main force to the left of PASOK, we must be aware of these weaknesses, which once the official period of satisfaction is over, may facilitate internal questioning, until now fairly discreet.

One of the most urgent balance sheets to be drawn is that of Syriza: this radical reformist coalition has for several months experienced existential problems, quite simply of political identity, which hark back to the confusion related to its formation. Bringing together revolutionary or radical groups around Synaspismos, without these groups having had any common project of developing an anti-capitalist wing, Syriza has been buffeted over three years by the rhythm of the polls and actual results, which hardly exceeded those of Synaspismos alone, if we put aside the good result of Alexis Tsipras in the Athens mayoral elections four years ago (more than 10%). In recent months Syriza has divided into at least three currents: the first is that of the “renovators” of Synaspismos, who eventually left the latter and Syriza also in spring to form Dimokratiki Aristera (Democratic Left). Their electoral baptism of fire electoral was satisfactory to them: presenting alliances of variable geometry (with the Greens, with Syriza, with PASOK and so on), they got quite a number of elected representatives and their regional candidate in Attica, Grigorios Psarianos, a former MP for Syriza, won 52,500 votes, or. 3.8%. This also raises their political profile as a party of elected representatives with a discourse oscillating between radicalism and the flattest reformism.

[Dimentio]

How successful you estimate a Chavist party would be in Greece?

[Die Neue Zeit]

A Chavist party would steal the thunder of the KKE's "real patriotism" rhetoric and also support for right-populist groups employing that same rhetoric. It would gut the core of SYRIZA, Synapsismos, but not on its left-reformist terms like some attempt to form a Greek Die Linke. It would force the rest of the non-KKE left to do entry work. Finally, it would poach some people from PASOK's left wing. Those last two points are borrowed from some attempt to form a Greek Die Linke.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

Build the party of insurrection. K thnx.

[Black Sheep]

Bravo, that's exactly what we need.
More patriotism.Because PASOK's 'support the IMF measures to save our country', ND's 'PASOK's incompetence destroys the country' , KKE's 'the others are not patriots - they are cappies, we are the real patriots', LAOS's 'greece!! huzaaah! leonidas, fuck the turks' .....
are not enough.
A main thread in the struggle here, is to destroy every ideological layer of 'save the country', make a new 'national economy' and such bullshit, and emphasize that the ideological construct of the 'country', the 'national economy' etc are barriers to economic emancipation, they serve only as obstacles for the discussion to reach a class-based context.

Communicational little games and tricks for gaining support are disgusting, dishonest and yes, opportunist. (wow i said that word for the first time since ceasing to be a M-L-S)

[Enragé]

Build the party of insurrection. K thnx.

does that mean something more than the party/group of people who riot?

Honest question, cuz if so, im interested - talk! :)


if not well err, alot of riots have happened over the years and we still got capitalism.

[Mather]

Communicational little games and tricks for gaining support are disgusting, dishonest and yes, opportunist. (wow i said that word for the first time since ceasing to be a M-L-S)


Well this is the KKE we are talking about.

Neither the KKE nor these leftist alliances such as Syriza offer much to the working class in Greece, and if a social revolution erupts I'd be very surprised to see any of these parties having any major role in it.

[Black Sheep]

Well this is the KKE we are talking about.
Be fair now.If the KKE is true about something, it's about sincere communication to the people about its goals.
In every matter they state their program, and all its papers,magazines,TV & radio stations are officially a spokesperson of the party.

So much, that it's annoying.:D


Neither the KKE nor these leftist alliances such as Syriza offer much to the working class in Greece, and if a social revolution erupts I'd be very surprised to see any of these parties having any major role in it.
Well if it erupts, the KKE surely will have nothing to do with it, it will probably condemn it as provocateurish, misled, opportunist etc.
Syriza will try to take advantage of it, usurp it, contain it and beat it down to pure reformism.

[Reznov]

The main problem when these things happen like this, is that they just end up getting sabotaged like the Democrat Party here in the U.S.

[Who?]

Well if it erupts, the KKE surely will have nothing to do with it, it will probably condemn it as provocateurish, misled, opportunist etc.
Syriza will try to take advantage of it, usurp it, contain it and beat it down to pure reformism.


Which party in SYRIZA would you say has the most influence?

[Enragé]

just off the top of my head but i think that would be synaspismos no?

[Who?]

How much influence would you say the KOE has?

[Black Sheep]

just off the top of my head but i think that would be synaspismos no?
Yes.

I think KOE (m-ls) is the 2nd largest part of Syriza,not sure though.
And then DEA(trots).

[Die Neue Zeit]

Be fair now.If the KKE is true about something, it's about sincere communication to the people about its goals.
In every matter they state their program, and all its papers,magazines,TV & radio stations are officially a spokesperson of the party.

So much, that it's annoying.:D

Well if it erupts, the KKE surely will have nothing to do with it, it will probably condemn it as provocateurish, misled, opportunist etc.

If the KKE were pursuing a strategy of revolutionary centrism, continuing its refusal of entering into coalition governments or municipal governance, but also having an alternative culture apparatus and an exclusively worker-class mass party citizenship within its ranks, I'd support their condemnation of spontaneous unrest as provocateurish, misled, and opportunist stunts.

[Black Sheep]

If the KKE were pursuing a strategy of revolutionary centrism, continuing its refusal of entering into coalition governments or municipal governance, but also having an alternative culture apparatus and an exclusively worker-class mass party citizenship within its ranks, I'd support their condemnation of spontaneous unrest as provocateurish, misled, and opportunist stunts.

1.What the f is revolutionary centrism?
2.KKE does participate in municipal governance - they even have a mayor.
3.There is no alternative culture apparatus...unless if you count the yearly festivals as one.
4.It's not working class only membership.Even their program states that.
5.You may support whatever you like.I'm sure your position is based on facts and direct experience of class struggle here.

[Die Neue Zeit]

The post has to do with emulating the pre-WWI SPD.

I stand corrected about them not being in municipal governance.

No, I don't count yearly festivals as an alternative culture to the kind of organizations the SPD had.

I know about their Popular Front-ish program.

[FSL]

I saw this a few days ago and didn't really care enough to answer as it's more of a libel than anything else but what the hell.


You can easily tell when someone's a no good "radical" when they talk about anticapitalism -which can mean just about anything from Naomi Klein to Chairman Mao- but avoid the word communism as if it were the devil. The article in the op is a fine example of that.

No one accused the majority of the working class of bolstering the plutocracy. That's idiotic. Sensationalist lies to prove a point? Nice.

A number of other supposedly leftist parties (the left current in Synaspismos, KOE, sections in NAR) are promoting the "our country is occupied" myth and by doing that almost completely absolve the rulling class in Greece. This is of course a direct reflection of their policies which only go as far as leaving the Eurozone to reclaim contro over our currency, devalue it and have growth again (growth of priate industry that is).
It has been mentioned under a rather negative light in the party's press.
But I'll let everyone here ne the jusge of that. (Blacksheep despite living in the country seems to be finding it very difficult to remain informed, now that's an achievement).


There is an intersection in the propaganda of all political forces without exception, by PASOK, New Democracy and LAOS, until the SYN / SYRIZA and self-styled "anti-left." </SPAN>Each with its own particular nuances and considerations reproduces the idea that the country is under "occupation" and "custody" of either the EU or the IMF, or both together, and that the government does not pursue its own policy </SPAN>but, instead, implement decisions of others.

It is propaganda that harms people and the movement for the following reasons:

That's the beginning of a nice article badly translated with the help of google. The rest here.
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=el&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=el&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww1.rizospastis.gr%2Fwwwengine%2Fs tory.do%3Fid%3D6012801%26textCriteriaClause%3D%252 B%25CE%259A%25CE%2591%25CE%25A4%25CE%259F%25CE%25A 7%25CE%2597


Anyone who wishes to join PAME are free to do so. In fact a few years back, a radical social-democratic party (DHKKI, now part of Syriza) and Communist Renewal (now part of Antarsya) supported PAME. No they 've chosen not to. The reason is that as class struggle gets more intense, the choosing of sides becomes less forgiving. These parties at this point in time along with the rest of the radical, anticapitalist left prefer capitalists to workers. Sad, but true.
This isn't just empty rhetoric. People only need to look at their proposals to be convinced, they have been described here many times.


Yes, if something erupts just like magic we'll probably have nothing to do with it. Because instead of waiting for things to erupt, we actually prepare real eruptions, of the kind that don't just dissapear when things get boring.

The CP doesn't really enter municipal governments. It either gains majority or is in opposition. One mayor was elected -as I said elsewhere, there was an increase everywhere bu not enough to give mayors, in my municipality we went from 12 to 19%- there aren't any other local coalitions with other parties.

I don't really see "alternative culture" as an important cornerstone of policy but I guess holiday festivals for immigrant kids and an amature football tournament where unions can participate with their teams do fit that category, no?

In the last congress 80% of the delegates were wage laborers with another 10% being students and pensioners and the rest farmers and self-employed.

Blacksheep, along with many others, actually enjoys spontaneous unrest because A)it's so fun, B)it saves them from all the trouble of actually doing something when they're not bringing down states.

Some minor setbacks, like students being almost completely non-existent in the past year (not counting those influenced by the party) is nothing we can't shrug off I guess. Is that not a result of the "the movement is everything, the goal is nothing" approach? Is it not a result of a large section of the rebellious youth remaining completely separated from the working class?
If anarchists and other leftists were correct in hailing their triumph, what has happened in the past years that took conscience among that part of the population so many levels lower? And if they were correct then, mustn't they have done something wrong in the meantime?


An unrest can mean a lot of things. Even when it's not directly class-based -as the unrest in Greece isn't, if you can really call it unrest- it does show a dissatisfaction. And even a dissatisfaction concerning "the commercialization of music" has class origins.
However, when instead of correcting, criticizing, pulling someone's ear when they're wrong, you just plain out flatter them, you encourage and magnify all their weaknesses. Radicals of all kinds, as fine examples of petty-bourgeois thought in action, were drawn by the crowd's inadequacy. And now all that youth -except from maybe a small part that joined them in their opportunism- is in the oven. Maybe waiting for the next eruption, which could easily be just as fruitless.

And regarding the state's fear of such "uncompromising militancy". Oh yeah, they'd do anything to make it stop.
But, of course, images like this for the umpteenth time prove nothing.



http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/3663/getimageen.jpg

[Wanted Man]

Good post, but what's in the picture?

[FSL]

Good post, but what's in the picture?
Riot police and rioters in a casual chat

[thälmann]

anarchists and other petty-bourgois parts of the left of course have nothing to offer to the working class, but nobody should wonder about the fact that these parts of the movement have a lot of people as long as the kke acts like social democrats. of course you can criticize time and kind of violence, but to always say they are provocateurs is stupid. and on the other hand, its not the best way to act in such a hardcore legalist way if most of the people obviously hate the state and the system. revolutionary violence has its place in revolutionary work, also before the revolution. and a party big like the kke, and with this influence in the working class, should push things a little bit forward and stop only talking and demonstrating. otherwise somebody will miss a chance...

[Delenda Carthago]

The picture that the brezhnevist FSL posted is some undercover cops after being discovered from anarchists being hiding behind riot cops.Being the socialfascist he is, he didnt mention the source, which is athens.indymedia.

Other than that, anarchists may lacked of strong class analysis in the last years, but at least they have offered many things to the movement.December uprise for instance, when the cops and media congratulated KKE for their "responsibole stance", Rizospastis(KKE's newspaper) wrote a discusting article defending Grigoropoulos murderer and Papariga said in the parliament that in the REAL peoples uprise there is not going to be a single window smashed.What was the result from it?PAME members to join our demos that days and many KNE members leaving the party's youth.


Real work you say? Who do you kiddin? You have turn into an activist circus for the last months while a big part of your members is complaining about it.

Your critics on ANTARSYA and SYRIZA are true and I agree with them.However, calling them EKOFites(fascists) and playing micropolitic games against them, really makes your party look bad,not them.

[Black Sheep]

Blacksheep despite living in the country seems to be finding it very difficult to remain informed, now that's an achievementI never declared myself an information Pope,you are free to correct me.



a few years back, [some parties] supported PAME. No they 've chosen not to. The reason is that as class struggle gets more intense, the choosing of sides becomes less forgiving. These parties at this point in time along with the rest of the radical, anticapitalist left prefer capitalists to workers. Sad, but true.
This isn't just empty rhetoric. People only need to look at their proposals to be convinced, they have been described here many times.

It is just empty rhetoric.The generalization, i mean.
OBSERVATION:The X parties/organizations don't support PAME.
CONCLUSION: They prefer capitalists to workers.
HIDDEN PRE-SUPPOSITION: All non-PAME are crypto-capitalists.

Borderline disgusting.


Yes, if something erupts just like magic we'll probably have nothing to do with it. Because instead of waiting for things to erupt, we actually prepare real eruptions, of the kind that don't just dissapear when things get boring.Nothing erupts like magic,it erupts from spontaneous reaction from the people.
Nobody prefers relying on spontaneity,and nobody plans to rely on spontaneity (except the stereotypical "anarchists" that you have in mind).
However, there is always the question of one's stance, in the case of such an event.
Your attempt of psychological analysis of the hobbyist riot rock thrower is irrelevant.


The CP doesn't really enter municipal governments. It either gains majority or is in opposition. One mayor was elected -as I said elsewhere, there was an increase everywhere bu not enough to give mayors, in my municipality we went from 12 to 19%- there aren't any other local coalitions with other parties.Clarify this a bit please.
If majority is gained in a supported candidate?


I don't really see "alternative culture" as an important cornerstone of policy but I guess holiday festivals for immigrant kids and an amature football tournament where unions can participate with their teams do fit that category, no?Sure.Level of development of such activities stems from program and strategy.


In the last congress 80% of the delegates were wage laborers with another 10% being students and pensioners and the rest farmers and self-employed.Noone questioned CP's worker ratio.I simply pointed out who is accepted into it, according to the program.

Blacksheep, along with many others, actually enjoys spontaneous unrest because A)it's so fun, B)it saves them from all the trouble of actually doing something when they're not bringing down states.Allow me to yawn at your ad-hominem attempt.GOd damn these stalinists.



However, when instead of correcting, criticizing, pulling someone's ear when they're wrong, you just plain out flatter them, you encourage and magnify all their weaknesses. I assume this refers to these eruptions.
An eruption,an expression of disatisfaction by extreme means is not a negative thing.It is an incomplete thing,mostly not supported by tactics,critical thinking,strategy and class-related plans and goals: that's the reason that communist advocates of direct action do support it, critically support it,pointing out its flaws and suggesting alterations and improvements.
Just like the approach you have on reformist workers, and even more critical.
Nobody praises stupidity when (s)he sees it (excepts stereotypical Stirneric anarchists in FSL's mind and his/her party's propaganda means), and non-uniformity of the self-proclaimed 'anarchist space' in greece encourages this sycofantic approach.



And regarding the state's fear of such "uncompromising militancy". Oh yeah, they'd do anything to make it stop.
But, of course, images like this for the umpteenth time prove nothing. Such a discovery,wow.
The state always corrupts methods of class struggle.
Do you propose abolishing some ones because of it, and why?
Lets estimate the pros/cons and hear your suggestions.

[Die Neue Zeit]

The CP doesn't really enter municipal governments. It either gains majority or is in opposition. One mayor was elected -as I said elsewhere, there was an increase everywhere bu not enough to give mayors, in my municipality we went from 12 to 19%- there aren't any other local coalitions with other parties.

It does raise the concern of administering at least part of the whole capitalist state apparatus, even if the KKE refuses coalitions.


I don't really see "alternative culture" as an important cornerstone of policy but I guess holiday festivals for immigrant kids and an amature football tournament where unions can participate with their teams do fit that category, no?

Amateur football tournaments would count, assuming they're maintained on a more permanent basis like the sports and recreational clubs of the SPD. The holiday festivals for immigrant kids, on the other hand, aren't quite on the level of the SPD's cultural societies.


In the last congress 80% of the delegates were wage laborers with another 10% being students and pensioners and the rest farmers and self-employed.

It's that last 10% that I don't like in the KKE, unless you're referring to farm workers proper.


Blacksheep, along with many others, actually enjoys spontaneous unrest because A)it's so fun, B)it saves them from all the trouble of actually doing something when they're not bringing down states.

Haha, I'll send you a Visitor's Message shortly. ;)

[FSL]

anarchists and other petty-bourgois parts of the left of course have nothing to offer to the working class, but nobody should wonder about the fact that these parts of the movement have a lot of people as long as the kke acts like social democrats. of course you can criticize time and kind of violence, but to always say they are provocateurs is stupid. and on the other hand, its not the best way to act in such a hardcore legalist way if most of the people obviously hate the state and the system. revolutionary violence has its place in revolutionary work, also before the revolution. and a party big like the kke, and with this influence in the working class, should push things a little bit forward and stop only talking and demonstrating. otherwise somebody will miss a chance...
Revolutionary violence if it really is revolutionary, will also be collective and not individual. There are unions in Greece, even unions dominated by anarchosyndicalists and if they want/can upgrade the means of struggle to that level, well, that's only one meeting away. Revolutionary violence is never the work of individuals who act independently without any agreement on this or that course of action beforehand

Some are "agents" in the sense that some are really employed by the state security to infiltrate demonstrations and either keep notes or instigate violence/help arrest people.
But the whole action is a provocation because that's what those who are in favour of that, want. It's just their opinion that if they provoke the state in a conflict of sorts people will see its true nature, every piece will fall into position etc This is just wrong.
As pointed out more than a century ago, people are already seeing the true nature of the state. If the pieces aren't falling in place together, that's our fault for failing to make simple things understood (not that that's an easy task) and not something attributed to the lack of evil acts by the rulling class

Most people don't hate the state or the system. If you think that you've had bad information. Most people do hate certain faces in the system, politicians they see as corrupt or megalomaniac. And they do act violently against them. Does that satisfy you? Because it doesn't satisfy me.
Do you want them to start hating it? You'll need to tire to make that happen

Is hardcore legalism not throwing molotovs? You seem to blur the lines between a certain type of violence -in my mind a rather useless one- and accepting all bourgeois laws. Why is that? Occupations are illegal. Most strikes are judged by courts to be illegal. Not paying toll fees or tickets is illegal and demanding that the Power Corporation restarts supply of electricity to families of unemployed who didn't pay their bill is also illegal. But these all happen. So there is no hardcore legalism. And there is no hardcore pacifism either. Everyone understands how things change. The only difference is who wants things to change and who doesn't.

[FSL]

Being the socialfascist he is

Other than that, anarchists may lacked of strong class analysis in the last years

Is that the reason why anarchists mess anarchism with some of the worst Maoism around?
But you're the one to judge the CP's politics



It is just empty rhetoric.The generalization, i mean.
OBSERVATION:The X parties/organizations don't support PAME.
CONCLUSION: They prefer capitalists to workers.
HIDDEN PRE-SUPPOSITION: All non-PAME are crypto-capitalists.

Borderline disgusting.
It's not as simple as you present it. I can discuss with you if you 'd want about those parties you mention and their suggestions. They are "crypto-capitalists" because of them. Though personally I would prefer some other term, maybe reformists for DHKKI, left reformists for Communist Renewal, opportunists for NAR etc I could argue why I have this opinion. But this is done many times here as well, so I didn't bother.
My point was that them being "cryptocapitalists", as you put it, is the reason why they are mostly hostile to PAME, even though one could say that its aims are much closer to their words.



Nothing erupts like magic,it erupts from spontaneous reaction from the people.
Nobody prefers relying on spontaneity,and nobody plans to rely on spontaneity (except the stereotypical "anarchists" that you have in mind).
However, there is always the question of one's stance, in the case of such an event.
Your attempt of psychological analysis of the hobbyist riot rock thrower is irrelevant.
Dialectical materialism is a nice tool to use and help ourselves understand how things, work, isn't it?
Well, the rule for qualitative change is that it follows quantitative change that "piles up".
If the qualitative change in our example is a worker who at first supports capitalism, turning into a revolutionary one supporting its demise, then what leads to that, isn't simply "spontaneous reaction". That's just the boiling point. The important thing then is what leads to that spontaneous reaction, aka what brings the workers in that state where they understand the need to establish their own state (or "community") and act upon that idea. As a class.
Even the spontaneous actions of a class will be organized in some way. The two are not opposed, each one presupposed the other. The revolutionary and quite spontaneous act of the workers in 1905 was to organize their struggly by using factory commities, giving birth to the soviets. Not just run around burning stuff and shouting things at cops.

Such "event", ie the event where a great mass of workers goes through that qualitative change won't really come as a huge surprise, just because the stars are aligned. It will come as the result of them making one step after the other, maturing, fighting together. And if at that time they clearly and without any second thoughts claim power, they will in all probability gain it. The CP's job is at that time to put forward the question of power and not spread defeatism among the working class and that's what most CPs have done.

Just something last: You speak of spontaneity though I rarely see that among the anticapitalist left or the anarchists
We' ll probably have another general strike on february 10th (one called by PAME to which Adedy had to agree and Gsee might). Is there anyone doubting that on that day you will again act in the same manner you've acted in the past infinite strikes? How is that spontaneous?
Spontaneous, unorganized action does exist. It can be found when politician get booed or beaten up. It could be found in December 2008 when larger than usual masses were drawn to that behaviour. Or even when we have racial/ethnic/religious fights for no good reason at all.
In all these cases that kind of spontaneity is bad, quite bad. Beating down the thief or the cop will do nothing to bring down capitalists. And some do take the risk and actually voice their just criticism wanting to help workers while others just bow to the spontaneous, as the greatest expression of popular will. Well, it isn't.

[FSL]

An eruption,an expression of disatisfaction by extreme means is not a negative thing.It is an incomplete thing,mostly not supported by tactics,critical thinking,strategy and class-related plans and goals:

At least I don't need to find something bad about it myself.



=Black Sheepcommunist advocates of direct action do support it, critically support it,pointing out its flaws and suggesting alterations and improvements
Hardly seen that.
Are there really communist advocates of direct action? Maybe if they tail anarchism, but direct action and tailing anarchism are hardly communist




The state always corrupts methods of class struggle.
Do you propose abolishing some ones because of it, and why?
Lets estimate the pros/cons and hear your suggestions.

I'd propose "transparency". For example, a strike is called by unions. What means they want to use can be discussed among the workers there. Their choise is theirs to make and its results theirs as well. If someone things a direct conforontation with the state, throwing down the government (and not just having another equally bourgeois governmnt take over) or anything like that is accessible, they should discuss just that and go for it if they agree. If it is agreed that conditions aren't ripe, then increase efforts to make them
No need to mask your faces, no need to act as if class struggle is a conspiracy. Because it isn't and usually the only ones in the conspiracy are those few who name themselves "the class" along with a few policemen just getting their paycheck.

[thälmann]

well, if "the" party will not do the job, groups of individuals will do it. but to be serious defending demonstrations or attacking the bourgois state by thousands of people is not individual violence. individual violence is something different.
and i would call these parties, organisations or unions not individualistic.

the december of 2008 is a good example. what the hell is wrong with the kke leadership, not to support the rebellious youth, after one of them was SHOT.

and if you talk about russia 1905, youre right, the communists werent saying bad things to cops, they shot them. and robbing banks and so on.

"No need to mask your faces" ok, that only can say someone who never want to be a danger for the bourgois state. so all the communists around the world who have to mask their faces are making conspiracys? come on....

by the way: what is with the revolting masses in tunesia and algeria? provocateurs or does this only count for greece....

[Black Sheep]

My point was that them being "cryptocapitalists", as you put it, is the reason why they are mostly hostile to PAME, even though one could say that its aims are much closer to their words.Oh, okay.Your generalization confused me,but i guess you were referring to these specific political coalitions' members.

confusing quote:

The reason is that as class struggle gets more intense, the choosing of sides becomes less forgiving. These parties at this point in timealong with the rest of the radical, anticapitalist left prefer capitalists to workers. Sad, but true.

But still,i'd estimate that anti-stalinism or maybe anti-CPG-ism leads to a severely opposition to you,and not cryptocappism.You view them as cryptocapitalists, they view you as reformist,corrupted, etc, and both of you slander each other.


Dialectical materialism is a nice tool to use and help ourselves unders[...]Etc,etc, but i wasn't saying that spontaneous class concious action appears.

It is an incomplete thing,mostly not supported by tactics,critical thinking,strategy and class-related plans and goals

What i am saying is that an opponent of direct action, like the KKE, combats and condemns non class concious eruptions.Anarchists critically support, because they support direct action.
Of course,this neither means that anything with no communist goal will be condemned by the KKE, nor that any kind of direct action will be supported by anarchists.
For example, i think KKE supported the grassroots movement against road fees stations (whatever they're called,the stations where you pay,supposedly in order to mantain the highways), and mindless rockthrowing nihilists have been numerous times ousted and condemned by anarchist organizations and groups.




Video in greek.When an anti-authoritarian action becomes anarchisticXcb1lur5lfM


In all these cases that kind of spontaneity is bad, quite bad. Beating down the thief or the cop will do nothing to bring down capitalists. And some do take the risk and actually voice their just criticism wanting to help workers while others just bow to the spontaneous, as the greatest expression of popular will. Well, it isn't. Beating down a cop, is a violent expression of the oppression of the cop, by the victim,or by a person that recognises the victim's situation.
Of course it wont change anything, so i choose not to condemn, because it is justified, but to critically support, offerring a class-based explanation and solution of the problem.

Similarly,a wage increase is a class-deprived demand.Do you condemn it?
No,you offer class struggle insight and solution to it.


Hardly seen that.
Are there really communist advocates of direct action? Maybe if they tail anarchism, but direct action and tailing anarchism are hardly communist Yes,anarchist communists and anarchosyndicalism.
Don't start on word issues.





I'd propose "transparency". For example, a strike is called by unions. What means they want to use can be discussed among the workers there. Their choise is theirs to make and its results theirs as well. If someone things a direct conforontation with the state, throwing down the government (and not just having another equally bourgeois governmnt take over) or anything like that is accessible, they should discuss just that and go for it if they agree. If it is agreed that conditions aren't ripe, then increase efforts to make themCompletely,100% agreed.


No need to mask your faces, no need to act as if class struggle is a conspiracy. Because it isn't and usually the only ones in the conspiracy are those few who name themselves "the class" along with a few policemen just getting their paycheck. There is nothing inherently bad about masking faces - there practical reasons of why people do it, and not mystical ones.
People get arrested when breaking the bourgeoisie-crafted law, and many times,solidarity actions are inadequate.

For example, from the top of my head, tearing down security cameras has been done many times,by masked comrades.
On one occasion,i remember a DEH (public supplier of electricity) electrical line pole worker, symbolically covering a camera with a garbage bag,face unmasked.
He was arrested the day after.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

does that mean something more than the party/group of people who riot?

Honest question, cuz if so, im interested - talk! :)


if not well err, alot of riots have happened over the years and we still got capitalism.

When I refer to the party of insurrection, I mean the whole of people putting communism into immediate practice: more like a riot than a Political Party, but not only in the sense of its violence - also in the spontaneous and free play of relationships, the opening up of spaces in which the authority of state/capital cease to function, its immediacy, etc.

I highly recommend watching "War Has Only Just Begun" and/or reading "L'Appel" for a better sense.

[Enragé]

I read 'the call', the english translation, some time back. I like it, reads like poetry and makes some good points.

However, what to do when ' the whole of people putting communism into immediate practice' is not happening right now? As in, how to build this? Or prepare for it?

I cannot now march out on the street on my own, or even one hundred with me, to put communism into immediate practice. If i can, please do explain.