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Q
31st December 2010, 09:47
Louis Proyect, an American Marxist that has been politically active for decades and stems from the SWP back when it was still Trotskyist - but also someone who has moved away from what is considered "common sense" in much of the far left in favor of a more democratic outlook for example, wrote a nice bit on democratic centralism (http://louisproyect.wordpress.com/2010/12/30/once-more-on-democratic-centralism/). I'll put it up here for discussion:


Once more on democratic centralism

Yesterday Nick Fredman of the Socialist Alliance in Australia, a very promising attempt to transcend sectarianism initiated by comrades of the Democratic Socialist Party who have quite correctly dissolved into this broader formation, raised a very important question about caucuses, drawing implicitly into consideration the whole question of democratic centralism. He wrote a comment under my post about the SWP/Laurie Penny dispute (http://louisproyect.wordpress.com/2010/12/28/the-laurie-penny-swp-dispute/):


Which is why I dont understand at all Louis absolute stricture against caucusing before movement meetings. Theres a big difference between on the one hand, say, a small student action group meeting with the majority there members of far left groups each repeating points already made about the absolute necessity of a rally being on this date rather than that, before voting on party lines (been there, wish I hadnt), and on the other, say, a large meeting of union delegates with a small minority of socialists who had worked out some proposals beforehand that were better than the bureaucrats course, and some sensible (and different) things to say in support if they get the chance, which may well win people over (been there, glad I was). One also doesnt have to scream at or expel people who dont follow such discipline (when its decided its worthwhile to have such), as opposed to a sense of proportion and a bit of patient explanation when appropriate.

This is absolutely correct. Caucuses are absolutely necessary in the mass movement. Socialist groups must expect their members to vote based on majority rule in such circumstances. That in fact is what the centralism part of democratic centralism is all about. It is anti-democratic for a socialist parliamentarian to ignore his or her partys wishes. When workers donate their time and money to elect a member to parliament, the least they can expect is to see their wishes expressed there. One of the great scandals of 1914 is that some socialist deputies voted for war credits despite the partys antiwar declarations.

The problem, however, is that for small, self-declared Leninist formations, the discussions about policy take place behind their organizational firewall. I saw this all through the Vietnam antiwar movement when the SWP held what we called fraction meetings before a key national gathering. We were told that we were for a, b and c and that we should follow the lead of our floor captains when a crucial vote came up. This was what made so many people hate Trots. It was so obvious that someone like Fred Halstead or Gus Horowitz was calling the shots.

The way to resolve this problem, of course, is to go back to the real Bolshevik Party rather than the fictional version cooked up by James P. Cannon or any other men (and they were almost exclusively men) from that generation. Lenin did not believe in organizational firewalls. He believed in absolute transparency, except when it involved the security of the party.

In June 1905, Lenin wrote an article titled The First Steps of Bourgeois Betrayal (http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1905/jun/21.htm) that defined the relationship between the mass movement (back then, exclusively proletarian) and the working class party, drawing a sharp distinction with the bourgeois democrats of the Cadet Party:


We Social-Democrats resort to secrecy from the tsar and his blood hounds, while taking pains that the people should know every thing about our Party, about the shades of opinion within it, about the development of its programme and policy, that they should even know what this or that Party congress delegate said at the congress in question. The enlightened bourgeois of the Osvobozhdeniye fraternity surround themselves with secrecy from the people, who know nothing definite about the much-talked-of Constitutional-Democratic Party; but they make up for this by taking the tsar and his sleuths into their confidence. Who can say they are not democrats?

Does that sound anything like the way that our latter-day Leninist parties operate? Methinks not.

Something else must be said. The Bolsheviks were not committed to democratic centalism as a method of functioning in opposition to the Mensheviks. When I was being indoctrinated into the Trotskyist movement, we always used to hear something that went like this. The Bolsheviks were democratic centralists who knew how to get things done, unlike the Mensheviks who hated democratic centralism like a cat hates water and who preferred talk shops of the kind that Irving Howe and Dwight McDonald hosted at Upper West Side salons.

In fact the term predates Lenin by many years and was first used in 1865 by J.B. Schweitzer, a Lassallean. (The discussion here owes much to Paul LeBlancs excellent Lenin and the Revolutionary Party.)

The Mensheviks first used it in Russia at a November 1905 conference. In a resolution On the Organization of the Party adopted there, they stated: The RSDLP must be organized according to the principle of democratic centralism. A month later the Bolsheviks embraced the term at their own conference. A resolution titled On Party Organization states: Recognizing as indisputable the principle of democratic centralism, the Conference considers the broad implementation of the elective principle necessary; and, while granting elected centers full powers in matters of ideological and practical leadership, they are at the same time subject to recall, their actions are given broad publicity, and they are to be strictly accountable for these activities.

There is virtually no difference between the Mensheviks and the Bolsheviks about the need for democratic centralism or its meaning. So claims that the two factions differed over this Leninist organizational breakthrough are simply mistaken. Moreover, the two groups had resolved many outstanding differences following the 1905 revolution. Menshevik leader Pavel Axelrod said, on the whole, the Menshevik tactics have hardly differed from the Bolshevik. I am not even sure that they differed from them at all. Lenin concurred: The tactics adopted in the period of the whirlwind did not further estrange the two wings of the Social Democratic Party, but brought them closer togetherThe upsurge of the revolutionary tide pushed aside disagreements, compelling the Social Democrats to adopt militant tactics.

In any case, whatever differences would resurface in the period leading up to 1917, democratic centralism was not one of them. At a unity conference held in 1906, the Bolsheviks and Mensheviks voted for a resolution that stated: All party organizations are built on the principles of democratic centralism.

A Menshevik, Zagorsky-Kokhmal, gave the report on the commission that adopted this resolution. It stated: we accepted the formula for membership unanimously. In other words, there was no objection to what some would characterize as Leninist norms. The reason for this is simple. Democratic centralism was never an issue.

Since Rosa Luxemburgs critique of Lenins 1904 One Step Forward, Two Steps Backwards revolves around the charge that he was susceptible to centralism, you might get the impression that these differences revolved around the need for democratic centralism. In fact, this term does not appear in her critique that is online at http://www.marxists.org/archive/luxemburg/1904/questions-rsd/index.htm

For example, Luxemburg writes, Lenins thesis is that the party Central Committee should have the privilege of naming all the local committees of the party. Whatever else might say about this, it is not what we think of ordinarily when we hear the term democratic centralism. It is instead a reference to a specific practice rooted in the exigencies of the Russian class struggle, forced to operate under repressive and clandestine conditions. For example, I dont recall James P. Cannon ever favoring this practice, despite being committed to the sort of democratic centralism that evolved under Zinovievs authority.

Not that Luxemburg is opposed to centralism itself. She is not a Foucauldian. When it takes shape from the self-activity of the working class, it is a good thing. Centralism in the socialist sense is not an absolute thing applicable to any phase whatsoever of the labor movement. It is a tendency, which becomes real in proportion to the development and political training acquired by the working masses in the course of their struggle.

Of course, the democratic centralism that defines Leninist organizations today had little to do with Lenins call for freedom to criticize, but unity in action. Somewhere along the line it became a formula for ideological homogeneity. It states that the freedom to criticize is permissible during preconvention discussion, a period that tolerates atypical behavior every couple of years or so, more or less like Spock undergoing Pon farr, the Vulcan version of mating season.

Those who have experienced this version of freedom to criticize understand that it is no such thing. Instead it is mainly an opportunity for the secondary leadership of the party to salute the central leadership for the brilliance of the line resolutions presented to the convention. Those who reach the conclusion that the line resolutions are full of baloney are ultimately viewed as scratches that are in danger of turning into gangrene. In such organizations, however, the main danger from the standpoint of medical analogies is hardening of the arteries.

I will conclude with a point that must be made in relation to Nick Fredmans comment. While I agree that discipline must be expected in hostile settings like a parliament or a trade union dominated by class-collaborationist bureaucrats, I think that a different attitude must prevail at movement gatherings like during the Vietnam War. Although the people gathered there might not be members of a socialist group, they deserve to be treated like comrades rather than raw material that can be shaped by the partys iron will. Despite all its objections to Stalinism, the SWPs characterization of itself as the big red machine smacked of the same kind of bureaucratic mentality that would be the undoing of the CPUSA and for that matter us after the turn.

Die Neue Zeit
31st December 2010, 09:56
Are you good at math, matrices specifically?

Q
31st December 2010, 09:58
Are you good at math, matrices specifically?

What does that have to do with the topic? (also, it has been some time).

Die Neue Zeit
31st December 2010, 18:02
Just FYI there is a section in my older pamphlet on the topic, but there is extensive use of matrices. ;)

RED DAVE
31st December 2010, 18:19
Are you good at math, matrices specifically?Yeah. Neo and I were in the same class.

What, pray tell, does this have to do with democratic centralism? Have you ever been in a democratic centralist organization?

RED DAVE

bricolage
31st December 2010, 18:30
Just FYI there is a section in my older pamphlet on the topic, but there is extensive use of matrices. ;)
You wrote a pamphlet?

Tower of Bebel
2nd January 2011, 19:25
In fact the term predates Lenin by many years and was first used in 1865 by J.B. Schweitzer, a Lassallean. (The discussion here owes much to Paul LeBlanc’s excellent “Lenin and the Revolutionary Party”.)Interesting. Two years ago, as I was searching for the origins of democratic centralism in the Eisenach party, I found out that Bebel and Wilhelm Liebnecht counterpoised Schweitzer's "Through unity to freedom" (Durch Einheit zur Freiheit) with what I'd call a primitive form of democratic centralism.

"From now on there's no leader (Fhrer) in our party organisation, and that's necessary", Bebel said during the Eisenach congress. "From the moment a party recognises certain figures as authorities, it leaves the basis of democracy; because the belief in authority, the blind obedience, the cult of personality is by itself undemocratic. That's why we want to replace one person (i.e. Schweitzer) with five persons." That was in 1866.

If it's true that democratic centralism was used by Schweitzer, then the concept must have evolved a lot before it became one of the basic principles of the Bolshevik party. I think the Liebknecht-Bebel group constitutes one phase of this evolution, but a lot of (background) information is still missing.


While I agree that discipline must be expected in hostile settings like a parliament or a trade union dominated by class-collaborationist bureaucrats, I think that a different attitude must prevail at movement gatherings like during the Vietnam War. Although the people gathered there might not be members of a socialist group, they deserve to be treated like comrades rather than raw material that can be shaped by the party’s iron will.I think secracy from the bloodhounds means a set of techniques, not principles, to help comrades stay out of sight (that of the state). For instance false names or no mention of names at all. While the deviant opinion is published the person who wrote it is not mentioned by name.

A trade union meeting means action. It means unity, or discipline. It is as simple as that.

Zanthorus
2nd January 2011, 19:33
To add to the above, Marx also came out against Schweitzer's 'Democratic-centralist' views:


As for the draft statutes, I regard them as unsuitable in principle, and I believe I have as much experience as any of my contemporaries in the field of trades unions. Without going further into detail here, I shall merely remark that a centralist organisation, suitable as it is for secret societies and sect movements, contradicts the nature of the trades unions. Were it possible — I declare it tout bonnement to be impossible — it would not be desirable, least of all in Germany. Here, where the worker is regulated bureaucratically from childhood onwards, where he believes in authority, in those set over him, the main thing is to teach him to walk by himself.- Marx to J. B. Schweitzer, 13th October 1868

Paulappaul
2nd January 2011, 20:20
^ Fuck that's well put.

Die Neue Zeit
2nd January 2011, 21:35
Interesting. Two years ago, as I was searching for the origins of democratic centralism in the Eisenach party, I found out that Bebel and Wilhelm Liebnecht counterpoised Schweitzer's "Through unity to freedom" (Durch Einheit zur Freiheit) with what I'd call a more primitive form of democratic centralism.

You forgot my very brief mention of Schweitzer in my old pamphlet? :(

In some Western encyclopedia on Soviet Marxism, it was Engels who first criticized "democratic centralization."

Also, from another thread, a more sympathetic ear to Schweitzer:



Von Schweitzer, you mean the Lassallean who characterised the internal structure of the ADAV as 'Democratic Centralisation'?!?! The one who Marx argued against because he advocated such a centralism? ("Here, where the worker is regulated bureaucratically from childhood onwards, where he believes in authority, in those set over him, the main thing is to teach him to walk by himself." - Marx to Von Schweitzer, 1868) Are you purposely trying to be facetious? Of course Marx hated the man.

To be fair, I'll give these flexible interpretations to what Marx wrote:

"Where the worker is regulated bureaucratically from childhood onwards": Can easily refer to alternative culture.

"Where he believes in authority": The authority of his Party and its myriad of organizations.

"In those set over him": Schweitzer was not referring to some elite central committee, especially since the Lassalleans didn't intend on remaining a sect. This can refer to a bureaucratic process of sorts.

"The main thing is to teach him to walk by himself": No need for interpretation.

Zanthorus
2nd January 2011, 21:42
I'm not entirely sure what the point of DNZ's 'flexible' interpretation is other than the fact that he has a strange fetish for a political tendency which actually prefigured Stalinism in many respects.

Die Neue Zeit
2nd January 2011, 21:45
Here's the old pamphlet article I'm referring to:

“Unity in Action, Freedom of Discussion and Criticism”: Circumstantial Discussive Unity (http://www.revleft.com/vb/unity-action-freedom-t74836/index.html)

Note, though, that it's not the updated version that mentions Schweitzer. After the first quote, the two paragraphs that follow should read:

As mentioned at the beginning of this chapter, it is popular belief amongst Marxists and outsiders that Lenin or perhaps the Mensheviks conceptualized “democratic centralism.” However, the bolded remarks emphatically point towards German workers’ movement as the origin. Moreover, this organizational concept originated from Lassallean authoritarianism and was popularized by one Jean Baptista von Schweitzer, to the dismay of Engels himself!

Long after the capture of this term for European Marxism (much like the temporary capture of “social democracy” itself), Kautsky’s most well-known disciple popularized the Marxist definition of “democratic centralism” within the Russian context, having in mind that “democratic centralism” was merely the best means to achieve “unity in action, freedom of discussion and criticism” – discussive unity – within their historical circumstances. More importantly, they also knew that other organizational and equally revolutionary forms were possible in other circumstances!

The central point remains this:

In building both the modern revolutionary Marxist party and its precursor – both mass parties of the working class – the organizational basis should be as close to ideal discussive unity as possible. The particular “centralism” (which as a word now reeks of reductionist organizational fetishism, as opposed to the more basic concept of centrality) that applies to both organizations – publicized discussive unity – should have a varying set of these features:

D1: GEN, FCT, or RES
UN: DIR, REP, or ORG
D2: PUB only

Note the possibility for general access by the public (through live mass-media and/or Internet coverage of intra-party discussions) and the level of discussions on decisions that have already been made (read: publicized criticism). One of the organizational goals for both the modern revolutionary Marxist party and its precursor should be political transparency.

The final edit in that section was made to the paragraph immediately following the above, which now should read:

Note also the possibilities for “organic” decision-making and direct decision-making by the party membership as a whole. In the case of the former, "correct revolutionary politics" is needed by the modern revolutionary Marxist party based on material conditions, and that, under extremely extraordinary circumstances, appointed (not elected) "organs" (hence "organic") like the short-lived 1917 Political Bureau may be necessary. In between the two (or possibly an extension of the former), representative decision-making could be demarchic (random instead of electoral selections of personnel), thereby severely limiting intra-party machinations, manipulations, and “celebrity politics” (personality cults by any other name), as well as ensure programmatic diversity (beyond full, knowledgeable agreement with principles, this diversity means knowledgeable acceptance of, but not necessarily knowledgeable agreement with, the organization’s program). In the case of the latter, which is the ideal decision-making, the central party bodies would merely act as referees or “moderators” in the party-wide discussions.

Zanthorus
2nd January 2011, 22:00
The discussion of Bordiga's conception of Organic Centralism is unsatisfactory. What it meant when Bordiga put it forward originally in The Democratic Principle was that the party would unite all sections of the working-class and combine the struggles into a national and international class fight against capitalism (Centralism) as well as subordinating struggles in the present to future goals (Organic). It means quite simply that the party is not just a question of form (The democratic mechanism) but also of content (The programme), and that the content is of greater consideration than the form. At the time he made it clear that there was as of yet no suitable replacement for democratic mechanisms, and hence they should remain within the party. And in the debates in the Comintern after 1924 he actually used his conception to justify easing off on inter-party discipline, as well as projecting his conception backwards to the struggle between Marxists and social-patriots in the Second International, saying that the latter were justified in fighting against centralism in order to defend the Marxist programme. It was only with the formation of the International Communist Party (Il Programma Comunista) that 'Organic Centralism' became manifested in an organisation which rejected all democratic internal mechanisms. Even then, Onorato Damen called him out on posing a contradiction between Democratic and Organic centralism.

Die Neue Zeit
2nd January 2011, 22:11
The discussion of Bordiga's conception of Organic Centralism is unsatisfactory.

I accept this constructive criticism, but:

A) The commentary was part of a mere pamphlet; and
B) One of the final pieces to my programmatic Chapter 5, Practical Issues and Revisiting the Party Question, will probably avoid the matrices used in the earlier pamphlet, so I don't know how much of Bordiga will be mentioned at all.

I'd have to have a whole chapter (in some future work) dedicated to "democratic centralism" specifically so I can have a section dedicated to Bordiga.


What it meant when Bordiga put it forward originally in The Democratic Principle was that the party would unite all sections of the working-class and combine the struggles into a national and international class fight against capitalism (Centralism) as well as subordinating struggles in the present to future goals (Organic). It means quite simply that the party is not just a question of form (The democratic mechanism) but also of content (The programme)

Programmatic Centrality is a better term to describe this, then. ;)


And in the debates in the Comintern after 1924 he actually used his conception to justify easing off on inter-party discipline, as well as projecting his conception backwards to the struggle between Marxists and social-patriots in the Second International, saying that the latter were justified in fighting against centralism in order to defend the Marxist programme.

That was wrong on so many levels. It was the *lack* of centrality which led to non-adherence of the International Rules of Socialist Tactics and especially of the Basel Manifesto itself.

Tower of Bebel
2nd January 2011, 22:18
Jacob, Marx doesn't say the German case is exceptional. Germany had no alternative culture. And there was no such thing as a healthy belief in party authority. He makes it the worst example of a genuine capitalist tendency towards bureaucratic control over the working class. All in all he points out that "centralist" organizations ( la Schweitzer f.e.) are unnecessary.

Die Neue Zeit
2nd January 2011, 22:21
I'm not entirely sure what the point of DNZ's 'flexible' interpretation is other than the fact that he has a strange fetish for a political tendency which actually prefigured Stalinism in many respects.


Jacob, Marx doesn't say the German case is exceptional. Germany had no alternative culture. And there was no such thing as a healthy belief in party authority. He makes it the worst example of a genuine capitalist tendency towards bureaucratic control over the working class. All in all he points out that "centralist" organizations ( la Schweitzer f.e.) are unnecessary.

I'm just giving the Lassalleans more slack because of their proletarian-not-necessarily-communist commitment, unlike the douchebags who eventually formed British Labour (or even the "Marxist-Leninists" whom comrade Zanthorus refers to).

I also stress "centrality" over "centralism" because of too many -isms, to recall Orwell.

Zanthorus
2nd January 2011, 22:42
I accept this constructive criticism, but:

A) The commentary was part of a mere pamphlet; and
B) One of the final pieces to my programmatic Chapter 5, Practical Issues and Revisiting the Party Question, will probably avoid the matrices used in the earlier pamphlet, so I don't know how much of Bordiga will be mentioned at all.

I'd have to have a whole chapter (in some future work) dedicated to "democratic centralism" specifically so I can have a section dedicated to Bordiga.

Fair enough, I suppose. In addition to what I mentioned earlier, I would also add that Bordiga and the Italian Left opposed the policy of 'Bolshevisation' put forward by Gramsci and the Comintern precisely because they thought it would lead the party cadre down the road of a blind belief in the authority of the party leadership.


Programmatic Centrality is a better term to describe this, then. ;)

It is 'Organic' because membership of the party is based on a voluntary adherence to it's precepts (Which was part of Bordiga's critique of disciplinarianism). 'Programmatic centrality' seems to fall back into the formalism that was the object of Bordiga's critique. For him the Programme is not just a written document which the party blindly adheres to, it is the living body of theory and practice which traces it's way back to the 1848 Manifesto.


That was wrong on so many levels. It was the *lack* of centrality which led to non-adherence of the anti-coalition resolution of the Amsterdam Congress and especially of the Basel Manifesto itself.

On an international level this is true. At the national levels, the bureaucratic organisation of the SI parties was used by the centrist leadership to supress the Left opposition factions.

Die Neue Zeit
2nd January 2011, 22:52
Fair enough, I suppose. In addition to what I mentioned earlier, I would also add that Bordiga and the Italian Left opposed the policy of 'Bolshevisation' put forward by Gramsci and the Comintern precisely because they thought it would lead the party cadre down the road of a blind belief in the authority of the party leadership.

"Bolshevization" goes against what I wrote in my pamphlet as "D2: PUB only," in that there's no room for publicized criticism of discussions on decisions (include OUTSIDE party channels) that have already been made.

When I wrote the above, I meant that the Old Bolshevik Kamenev should not have spilled the date of the insurrection or other key details. He should have been more "professional" in his public criticism.


It is 'Organic' because membership of the party is based on a voluntary adherence to it's precepts (Which was part of Bordiga's critique of disciplinarianism). 'Programmatic centrality' seems to fall back into the formalism that was the object of Bordiga's critique.

Comrade, you should re-post these two sentences in my Programmatic Centrality article (http://www.revleft.com/vb/transnational-organization-modern-t146427/index.html). It's a direct critique of "programmatic centrality, or the pairing together of 'a programme and an insistence on discipline,'" and also my quotation of Lars Lih in that phrase.


On an international level this is true. At the national levels, the bureaucratic organisation of the SI parties was used by the centrist leadership to suppress the Left opposition factions.

It was just plain hypocrisy by the class-collaborationists.

Die Neue Zeit
5th January 2011, 04:37
"From now on there's no leader (Fhrer) in our party organisation, and that's necessary", Bebel said during the Eisenach congress. "From the moment a party recognises certain figures as authorities, it leaves the basis of democracy; because the belief in authority, the blind obedience, the cult of personality is by itself undemocratic. That's why we want to replace one person (i.e. Schweitzer) with five persons." That was in 1866.

Why five persons and not, say, fifteen?

http://www.revleft.com/vb/value-electing-certain-t144804/index.html

Tower of Bebel
8th January 2011, 11:39
Because the "party" was so small.

TC
8th January 2011, 12:35
It seems to me that while the psudo-military discipline of democratic centralism might be of tactical import to a paramilitary organization (though questionable even there) it is absolutely out of place for parties that simply protest, publish papers, intervene in unions, and otherwise conduct above ground legal activist/education/pressure work.

The notion seems to be that when all a party really has is its ideas to publicize and spread - then everyone must spread the same ideas...makes supposedly "leninist" (marxist-leninist or trotskyist) parties self-congratulatory, uncritical, and socially and interpersonally weird spaces. I have yet to hear a good excuse for it.

Zanthorus
8th January 2011, 12:57
Actually-existing 'Democratic Centralism' isn't just 'pseudo-military discipline', the structure evolved during the Russian Civil War and the division between politburo, secretariat and so on came about in 1919 or so. It was the structure of a party which really did need military style discipline.

Die Neue Zeit
8th January 2011, 16:51
Because the "party" was so small.

Actually, comrade, in that link I was advocating precisely for a working group of five to seven people. I don't know if, beyond organizational studies, this is in sociology, communication studies, or psychology, but anything bigger than that and you can have individuals lost in the group, shy people not participating, etc.

Tower of Bebel
13th January 2011, 13:00
Actually-existing 'Democratic Centralism' isn't just 'pseudo-military discipline', the structure evolved during the Russian Civil War and the division between politburo, secretariat and so on came about in 1919 or so. It was the structure of a party which really did need military style discipline.
What do you mean by division?

Die Neue Zeit
13th January 2011, 14:02
He meant that the Central Committee of 25-30 people had to delegate the bulk of its work to higher or specialized bodies:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politburo_of_the_Central_Committee_of_the_Communis t_Party_of_the_Soviet_Union


However, due to practical reasons, usually less than half of the members attended the regular Central Committee meetings during this time, even though they decided all key questions.

The Eighth Party Congress in 1919 formalized this reality and re-established what would later on become the true center of political power in the Soviet Union. It ordered the Central Committee to appoint a five-member Politburo to decide on questions too urgent to await full Central Committee deliberation.

Also:

http://fds.oup.com/www.oup.co.uk/pdf/0-19-829738-6.pdf

There's a useful table on page 3.

Die Neue Zeit
26th March 2011, 11:12
I'm not entirely sure what the point of DNZ's 'flexible' interpretation is other than the fact that he has a strange fetish for a political tendency which actually prefigured Stalinism in many respects.

Well:


For all his faults, Lassalle stressed independent political organization:

Ferdinand Lassalle: balanced assessment of a German workers' leader (http://www.revleft.com/vb/ferdinand-lassalle-balanced-t150158/index.html)

That's a lot more that can be said of either Stalin or Trotsky on Popular/United Frontism.

Compare with:

TRANSLATION: Alexander Filippov on ‘Debates about Stalin's Role’ in A New History of Russia 1945-2006 (http://www.sublimeoblivion.com/articles/transl_filippov_on_stalin.pdf)

Any new worker-class movement needs to borrow key parts from the legacy of Ferdinand Lassalle, and for this to happen that legacy needs one or a number of Alexander Filippovs. Lars Lih and I may just be the spearhead.

Jose Gracchus
29th March 2011, 00:07
That's not the least bit self-aggrandizing. ;) And here I thought I was being a bit unfair thinking to myself you fashion yourself as some would-be 21st C. Lassalle.

Zeus the Moose
29th March 2011, 00:16
That's not the least bit self-aggrandizing. ;) And here I thought I was being a bit unfair thinking to myself you fashion yourself as some would-be 21st C. Lassalle.

Guess we should be looking for some 21st century Bebels and Liebknechts then too :glare:

Die Neue Zeit
29th March 2011, 01:42
That's not the least bit self-aggrandizing. ;) And here I thought I was being a bit unfair thinking to myself you fashion yourself as some would-be 21st C. Lassalle.

I brought up Stalin only in response to Zanthorus's post, and because there's an independence gulf between the two historical figures. I likened myself only to one element that would make up a new, Lassalle- and Kautsky-inspired worker-class movement's Alexander Filippov. You know, the guy who wrote that infamous Putin school textbook back in 2006-2007?

[The reputation of such a Filippov equivalent is nowhere near Lassalle's then-living German cult or post-humous European cult, let alone Stalin's cross-continental cult.]


Guess we should be looking for some 21st century Bebels and Liebknechts then too :glare:

Them too. In fact I have all of them! :cool: