Those who work with cops

[The Vegan Marxist]

We all know that cops are clearly class enemies to those of us consciously of the working class. They're clear protectors of the bourgeois state, but what of those who work with cops? Such as forensics analysis investigators, as an example. Should we see them as class enemies as well, given that they work with cops, or should we see them as working class who are not protecting the bourgeois state?

In my personal opinion, I'd choose the latter. But what does everyone else think?

[Ocean Seal]

I don't see their role as particularly reactionary because to begin they're rarely called in unless its a rape or murder and secondly their stated purpose is to isolate the truth. However, in many cases they have manipulated evidence to get convictions for the DA. It seems almost natural that they would favor the prosecution instead of the defense, but then again their techniques have led to the release of several unfairly convicted people.

To give a more concrete answer, it depends on the context of their work. If it's a rape and with DNA they are able to find the guilty party, then their work should be praised. If they manipulate evidence to make a quick close on a case or to exonerate a dirty cop then they are reactionaries. Its all case by case.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

Communities need to take justice into their own hands.
Fuck the whole apparatus of law. Not just the pigs in blue, but the ones behind desks and in lab coats, too.

[Diello]

I don't see why a forensic scientist who works with the police should be any worse than any other kind of professional who doesn't actively dissent against the bourgeoisie.

Of course, if the situation were such that forensic techniques were commonly used to identify or locate political dissenters for suppression, as opposed identifying rapists and murderers, I would feel differently.

[Widerstand]

Do I oppose those gathering fingerprints from transparents, DNA samples from broken bottles at riots, etc.? Yes, of course.

Very often these are not your classical forensic scientists though, but in any case I consider forensic scientists to be cops, even though a bit more excusable as they don't directly conserve state power through brute force.

[FreeFocus]

I do think that they do good things more frequently than the police do. They also aren't out in the streets brutalizing and killing people. But they do act as enablers to a certain extent. I don't think I would approve of attacking forensic scientists though. The occupation doesn't inherently rely on oppression, so such a lefter-than-thou opinion that advocates viewing forensic scientists as class enemies is highly suspect.

[Widerstand]

I do think that they do good things more frequently than the police do. They also aren't out in the streets brutalizing and killing people. But they do act as enablers to a certain extent. I don't think I would approve of attacking forensic scientists though. The occupation doesn't inherently rely on oppression, so such a lefter-than-thou opinion that advocates viewing forensic scientists as class enemies is highly suspect.

It depends. You are right that forensic scientists aren't harmful without police brutes, but they can't be seen as separate from the police apparatus in my opinion. I agree though, that attacking them seems rather unjustified, not to mention useless.

But then, there are also pseudo-forensic police squads like the German BFE ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrest_unit ):

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Bundespolizei_Festnahmeeinheit_Hannover.jpg/800px-Bundespolizei_Festnahmeeinheit_Hannover.jpg

[The Vegan Marxist]

I ask mainly because forensic's is something I'm really interested in, and I'm also interested in understanding criminal behavior. I'm a huge advocate in bio-social criminology. Though, I'm not an advocate of cops during today's society - people protecting the bourgeois other than the community. Though, I'd love to go into forensics, to be able to analyze brutal crimes and come to an answer scientifically - unlike those of what cops wish to conclude upon.

[BIG BROTHER]

Well if you want to do that its fine I'm not one to judge people over what they choose to study, but the honest answer is that the the police is repressive as an institution, not just the people who are in the streets with the guns or the riot gear, but the whole team behind it is part of the repressive machinery.

[BIG BROTHER]

If you do end up studying that, and join the police force at least promise us you will commit as much sabotage as you can? plz?

[The Vegan Marxist]

I'd be the ones striking with the workers. So no worries.

[Tavarisch_Mike]

This has to much individual-black/white-focus. Forensics can be used as a reactionary instrument but so can also bussdrivers (transporting protestors) and locksmiths (changing the lock to harass a suspicious person) its more about the system, thees peopel are forced to do soo since its the police (and therefor the state/law) that tells them. Point is that its capitalism that makes some reactionary not individual choices.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

It depends. You are right that forensic scientists aren't harmful without police brutes, but they can't be seen as separate from the police apparatus in my opinion. I agree though, that attacking them seems rather unjustified, not to mention useless.


On the contrary - they're the soft underbelly!
Their training is expensive, and they're not armed and trained to fight back.

Think of how a police force could be crippled by attacking the bureaucrats and scientists who support it.

GET CREATIVE!

[The Vegan Marxist]

The way I see it, it's clearly out of where you stand when it comes to class support. One could, of course, disregard the clear evidence and protect cops, but then there are those who use the clear evidence to lock up crooked cops and release innocent prisoners. I'm all for the latter.

[Sensible Socialist]

They're not as high on the class enemy scale as traditional police officers are, but they still function as part of a racist and unjust criminal "justice" system. Their contributions, for the most part, probably do more than good (when not manipulated to get a conviction). As I understand it, much of their work is analyzing DNA for murders and rapes. In those cases, it's best to know who did it. However, we cannot forget the fact that they still are part of the corrupt criminal justice system.

[synthesis]

I would say that a lot of it goes back to social relations. "Association breeds similarity." Even if lab cops don't actively support the status quo, they spend most of their time around people who do, and should be regarded accordingly.

[FreeEire]

Police and those who work with them are all part of the coercive arm of the legal system. As has been pointed out, the civilian support staff (forensics, clerical workers, legal support) are actually the power behind the Police.

Those who are sent out on the streets to enforce law are simply the poorly educated foot soldiers.

[Sensible Socialist]

Police and those who work with them are all part of the coercive arm of the legal system. As has been pointed out, the civilian support staff (forensics, clerical workers, legal support) are actually the power behind the Police.

Those who are sent out on the streets to enforce law are simply the poorly educated foot soldiers.
You're not seriously proposing that rank-and-file police officers, those who use and abuse their power to maintain the status quo, have less power than the behind-the-scenes personel? It is the former, not the latter, that abuses and kills the vunerable in society.