Workers' Clubs in 1848

[Zanthorus]

Alongside the new official governments they [the workers] must simultaneously establish their own revolutionary workers’ governments, either in the form of local executive committees and councils or through workers’ clubs or committees, so that the bourgeois-democratic governments not only immediately lost the support of the workers but find themselves from the very beginning supervised and threatened by authorities behind which stand the whole mass of the workers.- Marx and Engels, March 1850 Address of the Central Committee to the Communist League


On March 21 Faucher’s bill against the right of association: the suppression of the clubs was on the order of the day in the National Assembly. Article 8 of the constitution guarantees to all Frenchmen the right to associate. The prohibition of the clubs was therefore an unequivocal violation of the constitution, and the Constituent Assembly itself was to canonize the profanation of its holy of holies. But the clubs – these were the gathering points, the conspiratorial seats of the revolutionary proletariat. The National Assembly had itself forbidden the coalition of the workers against its bourgeois. And the clubs – what were they but a coalition of the whole working class against the whole bourgeois class, the formation of a workers’ state against the bourgeois state? Were they not just so many constituent assemblies of the proletariat and just so many military detachments of revolt in fighting trim- Marx, The Class Struggles in France 1848-50

I'm interested, what are the kind of clubs that Marx is talking about here? What was their internal structure etc like? Does anyone have any interesting info on this?

[Die Neue Zeit]

Leaving aside spontaneism issues, I like the word "club" over "council." While derived from the French revolution, "club" means some level of organization above a mere "council." A workers political club can also double as a sports club or cultural club, for example, which a council simply can't do.

[ComradeOm]

Sorry to disappoint you but 'club' here means exactly what it says on the tin. It is not the equivalent of or synonymous with 'workers council'

In France the term maintained some political connotations, going back to the French Revolution, but elsewhere the term was interchangeable with 'worker association', 'educational society, 'union' (note: not trade/industrial union), and the like. All of this was part of the proliferation of new mutual-aid societies throughout the 19th C to cater for the proletariat. Their primary duties typically involved providing educational resources, aid for sick/unemployed members, publishing a society newspaper and providing rooms for meals or drinking sessions. These proto-trade unions sometimes had revolutionary potential, as in Germany or Italy, and sometimes they didn't, as in Britain. There was no standard structure across Europe

As for the quotes you refer to, the first would have been inspired by Marx's own experiences in Cologne during that 'mad year' of 1848. He was very much involved in the 'Workers Union' there, which he found to be of considerably more use than the local Communist League branch or the petit-bourgeois 'Democratic Union'. That period of his life is covered in relative depth in Nicolaievsky's Karl Marx: Man and Fighter. The second quote refers to the suppression of the mass of local associations/clubs/unions that sprung up on the establishment of the Second Republic. Only a minority of these would have had explicit political goals but they, along with universal suffrage, were considered a threat by the new 'Republican' government

[Die Neue Zeit]

All of this was part of the proliferation of new mutual-aid societies throughout the 19th C to cater for the proletariat. Their primary duties typically involved providing educational resources, aid for sick/unemployed members, publishing a society newspaper and providing rooms for meals or drinking sessions.

So why are you opposed to political parties providing all this alternative culture?

[Paulappaul]

I'm interested, what are the kind of clubs that Marx is talking about here? What was their internal structure etc like? Does anyone have any interesting info on this?

Look up the Paris Club Movement of 1848.

They were basically spontaneous political associations, developing rapidly in the month of March following the February Revolution and peaking in April. What we see as "traditional" Labor institutions were strenuously repressed by the French Government following the 1830 Revolution.

Clubs formed into Societies, similar to that of the Fabians in England. Their size was mostly bound to a single neighborhood but sometimes grew into city wide confederations. They were mostly educational, discussion and propaganda units. Their character was in majority Proletarian, although there were a number of Bourgeois and Intellectual Clubs forming at the same time for mostly political reasons.

But material conditions for Workers' Councils weren't quite there - Parisian Industry at the time was dispersed amongist ten thousand or so small workshops employing largely skilled workers. Trade Unions in the sort of condition would due better.


either in the form of local executive committees and councils or through workers’ clubs or committee

"Local Executive Committees" means basically directly democratic institutions. Similar to that of the Paris Commune. Councils I would imagine the same. These seem a bit more Revolutionary (actual governments as Marx called them) where as Workers' Clubs and Committees are as the above describes.


A workers political club can also double as a sports club or cultural club, for example, which a council simply can't do.


So why are you opposed to political parties providing all this alternative culture?

From this I am guessing you mean to say that Workers' Councils can't in themselves provide a "Counter Culture" movement? The AAUD-E in Germany in 1920's was a Council based Unitary Organization which did have committees committed to Counter Culture and proletarian Art. The AAUD was after all inspired by the I.W.W. which had a large counter culture movement. Internally the Council System within itself is counter culture. It stands against Capitalist Culture and the status quo.

[ComradeOm]

So why are you opposed to political parties providing all this alternative culture?Because its not their job. Parties are explicitly vehicles of political thought and action. I don't particularly care if they have cultural activities but it should not distract from their core political duties. That's what clubs are for

[Die Neue Zeit]

From this I am guessing you mean to say that Workers' Councils can't in themselves provide a "Counter Culture" movement? The AAUD-E in Germany in 1920's was a Council based Unitary Organization which did have committees committed to Counter Culture and proletarian Art. The AAUD was after all inspired by the I.W.W. which had a large counter culture movement. Internally the Council System within itself is counter culture. It stands against Capitalist Culture and the status quo.

The Russian soviets (1905, 1917 Petrograd, and even factory committees) didn't provide the alternative culture that the pre-war SPD and inter-war USPD did. The AAUD's alternative culture is commendable precisely because, as a Sociopolitical Syndicate, it broke with the IWW's explicitly anti-political shit.


Because its not their job. Parties are explicitly vehicles of political thought and action. I don't particularly care if they have cultural activities but it should not distract from their core political duties. That's what clubs are for

Then you might as well have a clear division of labour between the electoral "parties" and the clubs. :glare:

Alternative culture is probably the best means of disseminating political thought and coordinating political action.

[Paulappaul]

The Russian soviets (1905, 1917 Petrograd, and even factory committees) didn't provide the alternative culture that the pre-war SPD and inter-war USPD did. The AAUD's alternative culture is commendable precisely because, as a Sociopolitical Syndicate, it broke with the IWW's explicitly anti-political shit.

Touche :thumbup1:

Could you tell me or link me to some examples of pre-war SPD or USPD counterculture?


Alternative culture is probably the best means of disseminating political thought and coordinating political action.

No doubt. But workers' councils arise on the back of counter culture movements (the youth and social movement for example which gave rise to Councils in Italy and France in 60's and 70's). They are also in themselves counter culture. They stand against Authority, Hierarchy and Capitalism.

[Die Neue Zeit]

Touche :thumbup1:

Could you tell me or link me to some examples of pre-war SPD or USPD counterculture?

You mean my blog on Real Parties as Real Movements and Vice Versa isn't enough? Or that my programmatic e-mails aren't enough? :confused:

If that's the case, my realo comrade, I refer you directly to Vernon Lidtke's The Alternative Culture: Socialist Labor in Imperial Germany.

[Paulappaul]

You mean my blog on Real Parties as Real Movements and Vice Versa isn't enough? Or that my programmatic e-mails aren't enough?

If that's the case, my realo comrade, I refer you directly to Vernon Lidtke's The Alternative Culture: Socialist Labor in Imperial Germany.


Yes I have read your blog on the subject, but I was looking for a little more in depth on the SPD counterculture, thanks for the book recommendation!