Trotskiism, Leninism, Stalinin and Communism

[jediknight36]

I am a communist, and a Marxist as far as it is useful to the working class. Even Marx was not a Marxist. But I hear other terms based on the ideology of leaders in the Soviet Union which was, at first at least, not even stated as socialist but rather as in a holding pattern waiting for the largest capitalist nation to fall and then become its ally (sp).

With this in mind, I am looking for as brief as possible descriptions of these ideologies in comparison to socialism, or at least Marxist socialism. I know a "nutshell" can be large in the day of the sound bite (try explaining to someone a rather complicated and rare disease when it is so much easier to say cancer) but I'm just looking for a description I can wrap my head around without doing a years worth of research on each.

Thank you.
In solidarity

Posted using my ossim EVO 4G and Tapatalk.

[Savior]

I am a communist, and a Marxist as far as it is useful to the working class. Even Marx was not a Marxist. But I hear other terms based on the ideology of leaders in the Soviet Union which was, at first at least, not even stated as socialist but rather as in a holding pattern waiting for the largest capitalist nation to fall and then become its ally (sp).

With this in mind, I am looking for as brief as possible descriptions of these ideologies in comparison to socialism, or at least Marxist socialism. I know a "nutshell" can be large in the day of the sound bite (try explaining to someone a rather complicated and rare disease when it is so much easier to say cancer) but I'm just looking for a description I can wrap my head around without doing a years worth of research on each.

Thank you.
In solidarity

Posted using my ossim EVO 4G and Tapatalk.

I wonder this too.

and why do you keep posting about you EVO 4G? i care none for Advertising for the oppresssers.

[Diello]

and why do you keep posting about you EVO 4G? i care none for Advertising for the oppresssers.

"Posted on my so-and-so" sigs are applied by default by some mobile electronic devices; it could be that this is the case and that he doesn't know how to disable it.

[jediknight36]

"Posted on my so-and-so" sigs are applied by default by some mobile electronic devices; it could be that this is the case and that he doesn't know how to disable it.

Thanks for calling me on this comrades. I just now noticed it and am deleting it!

[Impulse97]

I am a communist, and a Marxist as far as it is useful to the working class. Even Marx was not a Marxist. But I hear other terms based on the ideology of leaders in the Soviet Union which was, at first at least, not even stated as socialist but rather as in a holding pattern waiting for the largest capitalist nation to fall and then become its ally (sp).

With this in mind, I am looking for as brief as possible descriptions of these ideologies in comparison to socialism, or at least Marxist socialism. I know a "nutshell" can be large in the day of the sound bite (try explaining to someone a rather complicated and rare disease when it is so much easier to say cancer) but I'm just looking for a description I can wrap my head around without doing a years worth of research on each.

Thank you.
In solidarity

Posted using my ossim EVO 4G and Tapatalk.


Well, I can tell you about Trotsky if you want to know I'm not that well versed of Lenin and I'm still delving into Marx deeper.

If this helps...

Marxist thought is the parent of all of these schools of thought. From there we see Leninism split away and mix what Lenin experienced within the traditional Marxist teachings. From there you often see it as Marxist-Leninist, seeing either or is rather rare nowadays. ML split off into Trotskyism with his interpretations and theory of permanent rev. Opposite of that is Stalinism which is almost orthodox ML except for the theory of Socialism in One country and few other differences.. Trots and Stalinist are bitter rivals and will go to great lengths to damage the other.

All are communist.

An ML or god forbid, a Stalinist can tell you more about each of their respective camps. Used to be a Trot myself. Then I read about Rosa Luxembourg and Che. From then on I was a new Commie. lol.:hammersickle::che::hammersickle:

[Savior]

"Posted on my so-and-so" sigs are applied by default by some mobile electronic devices; it could be that this is the case and that he doesn't know how to disable it.

Thank you, thats fucked up. Today i was listening to music on project playlist because its free, and now all of the sudden they slip advertisments between every few songs.


Fuckin Greedy Cappies.

[jediknight36]

Well, I can tell you about Trotsky if you want to know I'm not that well versed of Lenin and I'm still delving into Marx deeper.

If this helps...

Marxist thought is the parent of all of these schools of thought. From there we see Leninism split away and mix what Lenin experienced within the traditional Marxist teachings. From there you often see it as Marxist-Leninist, seeing either or is rather rare nowadays. ML split off into Trotskyism with his interpretations and theory of permanent rev. Opposite of that is Stalinism which is almost orthodox ML except for the theory of Socialism in One country and few other differences.. Trots and Stalinist are bitter rivals and will go to great lengths to damage the other.

All are communist.

An ML or god forbid, a Stalinist can tell you more about each of their respective camps. Used to be a Trot myself. Then I read about Rosa Luxembourg and Che. From then on I was a new Commie. lol.:hammersickle::che::hammersickle:

I think I will strt a new thread about tech and commies. LOL

Ok, so yet another question is why are these slightly different schools of thought at rivel with each other NOW and not after class consciences has reached an apex? Isnt it more important to band together than to argue theory apart?

[Impulse97]

I think I will strt a new thread about tech and commies. LOL

Ok, so yet another question is why are these slightly different schools of thought at rivel with each other NOW and not after class consciences has reached an apex? Isnt it more important to band together than to argue theory apart?


Well, Each one has its own interpretation of Marxism. Each one while close has its best guess at how the revolution and there after should go. Trotsky and Stalin differed due to Stalin's excessive authoritarian policies. Not to mention that Stalinism is little more than a cult of personality. People who follow this line of 'thought' if you could eve call it that refuse to believe that their precious Joseph was a psychopath who destroyed all that communism stands for and is the main reason why those Tea Party idiots hate socialism.

I think if a revolution where to occur in an industrial nation there would be a banding together to fight for the main cause. But, until then all we have is the internet and our bickering.:hammersickle::che::hammersickle:

[jediknight36]

But it seems to be that we can put all that aside, agree to do what is BEST for the working class NOW and worry about the details later. Is that not a good idea?

[hatzel]

But it seems to be that we can put all that aside, agree to do what is BEST for the working class NOW and worry about the details later. Is that not a good idea?

Oh, how cute! :tt1:

Unfortunately that's just not...how we...roll, really...we had a bit of a chat about it recently over here (http://www.revleft.com/vb/tendencie-wars-t146413/index.html)

[PilesOfDeadNazis]

Well, Each one has its own interpretation of Marxism. Each one while close has its best guess at how the revolution and there after should go. Trotsky and Stalin differed due to Stalin's excessive authoritarian policies. Not to mention that Stalinism is little more than a cult of personality. People who follow this line of 'thought' if you could eve call it that refuse to believe that their precious Joseph was a psychopath who destroyed all that communism stands for and is the main reason why those Tea Party idiots hate socialism.
So now we can blame Stalin for the Tea Party's politics? Not the present material conditions in America or still-not-dead Mcarthyism? I thought the OP was asking the meanings behind the different ideologies not for anti-Stalinists and/or "Stalinists" to foam at the mouth about each other.

[jediknight36]

Oh, how cute! :tt1:

Unfortunately that's just not...how we...roll, really...we had a bit of a chat about it recently over here (http://www.revleft.com/vb/tendencie-wars-t146413/index.html)
[Quote]

Basically, people trying to gain a sense of self-importance by "proving" how much all other ideologies suck. Overall, it's pretty amusing online, but rather irrelevant in real life, at least for me. None of the groups I work with organize along tendency lines, and indeed such an organization would be pretty stupid (most of the dogmatic sectarians get around this by simply disowning other tendencies of being part of the left and the working class, and "justifying" their attacks on them that way).[\quote]

But that's the problem I see. Too many of us are bent on "my way or the highway" and it has fractured the left. Fractured it so much that we have become partisan rather than organizing the workers under the red flag and fighting against our common enemy. I hear all too often people dismissing other leftists as "just Trotskites" or "just Stalinists". This is not helping the working class one bit.

In solidarity and peace

[Impulse97]

So now we can blame Stalin for the Tea Party's politics? Not the present material conditions in America or still-not-dead Mcarthyism? I thought the OP was asking the meanings behind the different ideologies not for anti-Stalinists and/or "Stalinists" to foam at the mouth about each other.


He's not solely responsible but, he was killing his own people in an authoritarian dictatorship at the same time as McCarthy was spouting his shit. How can you not see the connection? If someone like McCarthy sees Stalin its like a kid in a candy shop. They have all the ammo they need to support their warped views because Communism has been mis-represented. Tea Partyers today can point to Stalin and say 'look how evil communism is!'. :hammersickle::che::hammersickle:

[ZeroNowhere]

Oh, how cute! :tt1:

Unfortunately that's just not...how we...roll, really...we had a bit of a chat about it recently over here (http://www.revleft.com/vb/tendencie-wars-t146413/index.html)
We've probably had a chat about it at least every week.

Different groups often have different conceptions of how to benefit the working class, and what would benefit the working class.

[Ninel]

I think I will strt a new thread about tech and commies. LOL

Ok, so yet another question is why are these slightly different schools of thought at rivel with each other NOW and not after class consciences has reached an apex? Isnt it more important to band together than to argue theory apart?
http://www.unitedleftalliance.org/
This is what has just been launched in Ireland, it's basically left wing groups allying for elections. Credits to Q for informing me about it.

[PilesOfDeadNazis]

He's not solely responsible but, he was killing his own people in an authoritarian dictatorship at the same time as McCarthy was spouting his shit. How can you not see the connection? If someone like McCarthy sees Stalin its like a kid in a candy shop. They have all the ammo they need to support their warped views because Communism has been mis-represented. Tea Partyers today can point to Stalin and say 'look how evil communism is!'. :hammersickle::che::hammersickle:
McCarthy wasn't spouting his shit out of understanding of what was going on in the USSR. He was doing it because Communism was a threat to America and, therefore, his influence. His "ammo" was made up of false statistics and slander which had little to no basis in what Stalin did.

And Tea Partiers say Hitler, like Stalin, is a good example of how "evil" Communism is..... Again, there is no historical understanding there and has almost nothing to do with Stalin.

EDIT: I apologize if this goes off-topic. I don't want this to turn in to a tendency war.

[hatzel]

We've probably had a chat about it at least every week.

Different groups often have different conceptions of how to benefit the working class, and what would benefit the working class.

Well maybe once every other week isn't enough! Or, it is for us, but we need to make sure that every new comrade is fully aware of the whole...situation here...I mean, they might come in a little inexperienced and unaware about these issues, and then just throw in a little "but...can't we all just get along...?" or something like that. Which is precisely why we seem to have to have the same conversation every few weeks, after somebody else just brings up the tendency wars again...

You know what would end these tendency wars? If we could all just get along...oh...wait...I remember now...hmm...

And now I could be really controversial and say something like 'who said we were in agreement to act for the benefit of the working class? Why stress them? Why not act for the good of...all humanity...

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:F00p1VLkBIZp-M:http://wallpaperx.org/images/wmwallpapers/Spongebob-Patrick-and-Spongebob-DumbStruck-1.jpeg&t=1

[Sixiang]

I am in no way an expert on all of the tendencies. My best word of advice would be to read a little bit of the histories of the people that the tendencies are named after. Who better to study in regards to Leninism than Lenin, Stalinism than Stalin, etc. etc. It can definitely be daunting to study them all, as I know too. Hell, I'm still working on Marxism, let alone all of its different tendencies after it. I also recommend just reading from the minds of these exact people. All of them have their works online to read for free. That's my main method. I usually just use this site to ask some questions about specifics.

[Obs]

He's not solely responsible but, he was killing his own people in an authoritarian dictatorship at the same time as McCarthy was spouting his shit. How can you not see the connection? If someone like McCarthy sees Stalin its like a kid in a candy shop. They have all the ammo they need to support their warped views because Communism has been mis-represented. Tea Partyers today can point to Stalin and say 'look how evil communism is!'. :hammersickle::che::hammersickle:
You have no idea what you're talking about.

[Kiev Communard]

Oh no, here it is again... Frankly some people should stop thinking that we are still living in 1950s, and start creating new, innovative doctrines on the basis, but not identical with the old ones. "Trotsky vs. Stalin" flaming threads are all too predictable, though.

[Rafiq]

I am a communist, and a Marxist as far as it is useful to the working class. Even Marx was not a Marxist.

Yes, actually, he was.

The phrase "If anything is certain, it is that I am not a Marxist" comes from when he was arguing with French people, and he disagreed with them so much, he said "If anything is certain, it is that I! am not a Marxist."
Trying to imply if that is Marxism, I am no Marxist.

[Rafiq]

Both Trotskyism and Stalinism are forms of Leninism.

Leninism is not the only branch of Marxism .

Actually, Leninism is on the right wing of Communism.

[RED DAVE]

Different groups often have different conceptions of how to benefit the working class, and what would benefit the working class.This is the point. The differences between the tendencies are serious and revolve around the role of the working class in revolution and socialism. Each tendency, Trotskyism, International Socialism, Stalinism, Maoism, Anarchism, etc., have different answers to these questions (among others):

(1) What class shall take the leading role in the socialist revolution?

(2) What is the relationship between the Marxist party and the working class?

(3) What is the role of the working class in the actual overthrow of capitalism?

(4) How will the working class govern society after the revolution?

RED DAVE