Confusion about ruling class tactics

[Broletariat]

I'm more specifically inquiring about their tactics to render our movement useless. On one hand, they've under reported our actual movements and demonstrations so as to keep people from seeing a real alternative. But on the other hand there's always the tactic of red baiting and red scares and such.

It seems like counteracting motions, on one hand ignoring us, on the other, over embellishing our presence.

[jediknight36]

From what I have seen, they under report our actual actions while falsely cause us of being terrorists, trying to destroy people's families, and blowing out of proportion the fact that we DO want to spread the wealth around: giving average Joe his fair share from Fat Cat and Co. Instead, talking heads suggest we are to rob average Joe of his meager salary and savings.

Posted using my ossim EVO 4G and Tapatalk.

[Broletariat]

From what I have seen, they under report our actual actions while falsely cause us of being terrorists, trying to destroy people's families, and blowing out of proportion the fact that we DO want to spread the wealth around: giving average Joe his fair share from Fat Cat and Co. Instead, talking heads suggest we are to rob average Joe of his meager salary and savings.

Posted using my ossim EVO 4G and Tapatalk.
I think I just sort of misunderstood their intentions. I was looking at it under a light of "ignore this movement because it's insignificant" versus "oh shit the reds are gunna fuck us up."

This kind of dichotomy sort of misses the point I think.

[jediknight36]

Not a contradiction but a concerted effort to confuse the masses. Ask the average person on the street what a communist is and most can't give you a real answer, let alone a correct one. This is a major reason why. People hate what they don't understand.

Posted using my ossim EVO 4G and Tapatalk.

[Zanthorus]

The answer to this is simple: There is no single homogenous entity called the 'ruling-class' which co-ordinates it's activity in accordance with some Macchiavellian scheme to purposefully prevent Communists from taking power.

[jediknight36]

The answer to this is simple: There is no single homogenous entity called the 'ruling-class' which co-ordinates it's activity in accordance with some Macchiavellian scheme to purposefully to prevent Communists from taking power.

Before I call bovine excrement on this, please explain what you mean?

[MarxSchmarx]

On one hand, they've under reported our actual movements and demonstrations so as to keep people from seeing a real alternative. But on the other hand there's always the tactic of red baiting and red scares and such.

It seems like counteracting motions, on one hand ignoring us, on the other, over embellishing our presence.

The perceived contradiction exists because bolshevism, or at least the soviet union and communist china (and now adays North Korea) are far from being under-reported - in fact certainly in the case of the USSR worldwide and today in places like Japan and South Korea north korea - probably gets way more airtime than is really warranted.

However, leftists in the west go under-reported for a host of complicated reasons. The reason red-baiting and red-scares work is because people are ignorant of communists and other leftists, and only know about what they hear/read/see about the above-mentioned critical coverage of bolsheviks.

[Broletariat]

The answer to this is simple: There is no single homogenous entity called the 'ruling-class' which co-ordinates it's activity in accordance with some Macchiavellian scheme to purposefully prevent Communists from taking power.
Right, what you described would be classed as Fascism no?

I guess the root of my question was aiming to understand why both tactics work, which is a more easily answered question.

[Kaze no Kae]

I'm more specifically inquiring about their tactics to render our movement useless. On one hand, they've under reported our actual movements and demonstrations so as to keep people from seeing a real alternative. But on the other hand there's always the tactic of red baiting and red scares and such.

It seems like counteracting motions, on one hand ignoring us, on the other, over embellishing our presence.
The ruling class is no more united in its approach - or even universally class-conscious - than the working class

[thriller]

I'm more specifically inquiring about their tactics to render our movement useless. On one hand, they've under reported our actual movements and demonstrations so as to keep people from seeing a real alternative. But on the other hand there's always the tactic of red baiting and red scares and such.

It seems like counteracting motions, on one hand ignoring us, on the other, over embellishing our presence.

You can't win using one tactic over and over again. A group must use all avenues of fear and ignorance.

And there is a homogeneous entity committed to preventing communism from taking root. The bourgeoisie, the capitalists. After all, it's class war, the privileged few against the masses. The ruling class might just not know how united they really are.

[ComradeOm]

Right, what you described would be classed as Fascism no?No, at least if I'm reading Zanthorus right. The 'ruling class' is just that - a class. That is a segment of the population that has a common relationship to the means of production. This is not a shadowy cabal of capitalists sitting in smoke-filled rooms deciding and deciding on a single course of action or the best way to combat the communists. That is the realm of conspiracy theory and not class analysis. So the 'ruling class' is not significantly more unified or homogeneous (if perhaps more class conscious) than the working class

[ZeroNowhere]

Given the calls for LEFTIST UNITY! that seem to pop up every few days here, one must wonder how it would be for the bourgeoisie trying to unite in a Machiavellian organisation.

"So, let us begin our meeting. No, Buffet, stop running me out of business! Goddamnit, guys, we need unity here! Stop your sectarian infighting right this instant... Ha, Gates, I think you're out of this meeting. Your business' profits will do nicely in my wallet."

[Zanthorus]

Before I call bovine excrement on this, please explain what you mean?

I mean exactly what I said. Bill Gates, Rupert Murdoch and other assorted leaders of the world capitalist class are not sitting in a room somewhere right now plotting how to make Communists look bad in the media.

[Die Neue Zeit]

No, at least if I'm reading Zanthorus right. The 'ruling class' is just that - a class. That is a segment of the population that has a common relationship to the means of production. This is not a shadowy cabal of capitalists sitting in smoke-filled rooms deciding and deciding on a single course of action or the best way to combat the communists. That is the realm of conspiracy theory and not class analysis. So the 'ruling class' is not significantly more unified or homogeneous (if perhaps more class conscious) than the working class

But there are cabals which the class-strugglist left should take advantage of in upping their agitation: Chambers of Commerce, Federations of Small Businesses, etc. Portraying them as cabals can be more effective than anti-lobbyist populism.

Political education on steroids should go beyond SPGB-style discussions (Renaissance education comes to mind for political programs), and organization on steroids should emulate the SPD model. Agitation on steroids, however, may have to be not be above class-based conspiracy theories in appealing even to the most backward sections of the working class. Resentment towards these strategic lobbyist organizations of the propertied classes - and their funders and "fellow travellers" - by the most backward sections of the working class would then be comparable to identity scapegoating (think "Protocols of the Chambers of Commerce and Federations of Small Businesses"):

One Born Every Minute: Blog on Agitation and Demagogues (http://www.revleft.com/vb/one-born-every-t144497/index.html)

[Broletariat]

No, at least if I'm reading Zanthorus right. The 'ruling class' is just that - a class. That is a segment of the population that has a common relationship to the means of production. This is not a shadowy cabal of capitalists sitting in smoke-filled rooms deciding and deciding on a single course of action or the best way to combat the communists. That is the realm of conspiracy theory and not class analysis. So the 'ruling class' is not significantly more unified or homogeneous (if perhaps more class conscious) than the working class
Err, I meant if the ruling class HAD gotten together to actively suppress Communist activity, THAT we would describe as Fascism right?

[ComradeOm]

Err, I meant if the ruling class HAD gotten together to actively suppress Communist activity, THAT we would describe as Fascism right?Again, no. Classes do not simply 'come together'. Under certain conditions a political organisation might emerge to represent the broad interests of the ruling class but these are not necessarily fascist. See, for example, the Party of Order in the French Second Republic