Capital - Is it me?

[yobbos1]

Started reading Marx's Capital yesterday. Other than reading biographies of famous leftists this is my first attempt to study a serious socialist work. I have to admit this is a tremendously difficult read for me. Should I push forward or try something a bit more accessible? I've had all I can take of the discussion of coats and linen, I think.:confused:

[Broletariat]

The book gets far easier after Chapter 3, however Chapter 3 is also the hardest chapter. I would recommend supplementing your reading of Capital with David Harvey's reading of Capital from his website.

[Zanthorus]

I personally found the argument easier to follow when reading it alongside A Contribution to the Critique of Political Economy, since the latter covers the same material as the first three chapters, and in it a lot of the points of Capital are brought forward in more detail, whilst some of the arguments of the Contribution are also made clearer in Capital. Some of the shorter easier works like Value, Price and Profit or Wage Labour & Capital might be more reccomendable for a begginner if you haven't already read those. And as a side note, I personally try to avoid second hand commentaries at all costs when reading Marx.

[bailey_187]

read peoples own interpretations of it first. i know people say u should read what marx said himself but if its not making sense whats the point

[ZeroNowhere]

The first chapter is the proof of the theory of value. Everything else worth knowing about the capitalist economy follows from it. So yeah, you should probably get to grips with the linen and coats. It's really fairly simple, when you think about it.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

If it's the first thing of substance you've read and you want to try something else, why not take a look at Value, Price and Profit and Wage Labor and Capital? Both are short introductory pieces by Marx.

[Hoipolloi Cassidy]

The first chapter is the proof of the theory of value. Everything else worth knowing about the capitalist economy follows from it.

Or maybe it's the presentation of the Labor Theory of Value as a problematic, meaning its limitations are not transcended by Marx until Cap.III.

Sorry, this doesn't make it easier, I know. My personal suggestion is, get Bottomore's "Dictionary of Marxist Thought" so you can follow the various explanations of Marx's ideas. You may never end up actually reading Capital from page to page, but you wouldn't be the first.

[S.Artesian]

Zero Nowhere and Zanthorus are spot on: If you have trouble with Marx, read more Marx. The first chapter in volume 1 is the key to everything that follows... so if it is difficult, look to A Contribution to the Critique of Political Economy.

And keep in mind that the first chapter itself is a result of Marx's historical investigations in trade, commodities, exchange, and the organization of labor, so it might be worth looking at his unpublished economic manuscripts in vols 33 and 34 of the collected works.

Actually I can't recommend those manuscripts enough-- IMO they far outshine Capital vol 1 in content, presentation, and insights.

[S.Artesian]

Or maybe it's the presentation of the Labor Theory of Value as a problematic, meaning its limitations are not transcended by Marx until Cap.III.

Sorry, this doesn't make it easier, I know. My personal suggestion is, get Bottomore's "Dictionary of Marxist Thought" so you can follow the various explanations of Marx's ideas. You may never end up actually reading Capital from page to page, but you wouldn't be the first.


That's a very interesting point-- and I think the correct use of the word "transcends" in describing Marx's transformation of the meaning of LTV, in that the "overcoming" preserves the rational content-- so that we get the remarkable "dialectic" between price and value, where each can only be expressed in the other, and in the distortion of the other.

Another interesting point is that IMO, Marx begins this "transcendence" in his manuscripts on rent [Theories of Surplus, Part 2], and then seems to draw back from the implications of his critique of Ricardo in his own subsequent writings on rent. For example, I think Marx's writing on rent in vol 3 of Capital are confusing, opaque. But that's for another discussion.

Meanwhile, stick with the first 3 chapters of Vol 1, ACTCOPE, and look for "demonstrations" of the facts of value in articles in the Wall Street Journal and the Financial Times, etc.

Great line from an oil industry professional: "Let's get this straight. Oil companies have no interest in making oil. Their only interest is in making money."

[Hoipolloi Cassidy]

and then seems to draw back from the implications of his critique of Ricardo in his own subsequent writings on rent.
Bohm-Bawerk? I don't buy it! :cool:

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Like Broletariat says, the David Harvey stuff is often said to be the best supplement to Kapital.

However, i'd advise you to read some more accessible stuff - check www.marxists.org for a lot of interesting stuff by famous Socialists, from theoretical works to speeches and even party memorandums from the likes of Lenin, Stalin etc. Very interesting if you want to understand Socialism, Marxism, Leninism etc.

[Diello]

This is me reading Das Kapital:

"...Eh? Hmm. Wait, what? Uh... hrm..." *blinding flash of insight* "Oh my god! This makes so much sense! This is all so true!" *keeps reading* "Wait, what's this now? Hm." *repeat for about two months*

[S.Artesian]

Bohm-Bawerk? I don't buy it! :cool:

No, not the grandfather of the Austrian School of dissembling. The "contradiction" in the theory of value, between value and prices is the fact the law can only be expressed in the totality of the apparent deviations from the law, so that law of value is manifested precisely in the deviations of prices from isolated, specific values.

So where Marx originally and correctly points out that the markets cannot and do not create profit; that profit is not the difference in price over value; he develops and shows how markets apportion, ration profits in accordance with the total social value, and the total social productivity.

Anyway, that to me is the real brilliance in Marx's critique of Ricardo.

[S.Artesian]

This is me reading Das Kapital:

"...Eh? Hmm. Wait, what? Uh... hrm..." *blinding flash of insight* "Oh my god! This makes so much sense! This is all so true!" *keeps reading* "Wait, what's this now? Hm." *repeat for about two months*

Exactly! Can't think of any better way to encourage anyone to keep at it.

[Amphictyonis]

Started reading Marx's Capital yesterday. Other than reading biographies of famous leftists this is my first attempt to study a serious socialist work. I have to admit this is a tremendously difficult read for me. Should I push forward or try something a bit more accessible? I've had all I can take of the discussion of coats and linen, I think.:confused:




Start here (http://davidharvey.org/reading-capital/)

[PoliticalNightmare]

Hope the OP doesn't mind if I sneak in a quick question; what does Marx mean when he posts the shorthand, "&c."?

E.g. "Every useful thing, as iron, paper, &c."

[Sir Comradical]

Some people (like Zanthorus probably) have excellent concentration and can get through a difficult book with consummate ease, but if you have ADD like I do then you should go listen to David Harvey's chapter by chapter commentary to supplement your understanding.

[S.Artesian]

Hope the OP doesn't mind if I sneak in a quick question; what does Marx mean when he posts the shorthand, "&c."?

E.g. "Every useful thing, as iron, paper, &c."


short for etc.

[PoliticalNightmare]

short for etc.

Ah. That makes sense.

[Kenco Smooth]

I'm working through the first chapter currently and would seriously recommend that, if you aren't currently taking notes, start doing so. Putting it into your own words forces you to work at it till it's properly understood and it gives you something to look over and remind yourself what you covered the previous day.

Otherwise the advice to read more Marx elsewhere is a good one, if only to get familiarised with his language.

[Asklepios]

This is me reading Das Kapital:

"...Eh? Hmm. Wait, what? Uh... hrm..." *blinding flash of insight* "Oh my god! This makes so much sense! This is all so true!" *keeps reading* "Wait, what's this now? Hm." *repeat for about two months*

LOL. That's most of us. Che tried to read it in the jungles of Cuba during the revolution. He didn't understand it either. So we're in good company, I guess.

I second all of the comments above about David Harvey's material. Be sure to check out the classes that he filmed and put on the web. Really good stuff.

[yobbos1]

Many thanks for the links and advice. I have decided to set aside Capital for a week or two to concentrate on re-reading The Communist Manifesto and Service's Lenin biography. In the meantime I'll be listening to Harvey's lectures. Hopefully I'll return to Capital with better focus.