EU and the Balkans: current situation

[punisa]

Croatia is in the final stage of joining EU, but the citizen approval is below 50 % ! Since the law says that there should be a referendum in which people should vote on whether to join EU or not - propaganda has kicked in.
Popular political show on national TV yesterday ran an obviously biased report that made EU look like the wonderland.

One country in specific was glorified to the extremes - Estonia.
I did a little research and discovered that the current situation in Estonia is not even remotely that pretty.

As EU expanded further to the east -each new member of the EU saw a drastic degeneration of the workers rights and social benefits. I feel as if the workers here are lured and tricked into becoming pro-EU crowd.

Still, some things I don't get...
Why is EU so generous in giving money to the future members (from many pre-membership funds)?
Croatia have already received more then 1 billion Euros so far and it is stated that it will receive ten times more once it joins EU (probably in 2012).
What's the catch? I want to know more about this.

People are not stupid, they see that EU is getting weaker and that riots are getting larger. Naturally they are opposed to joining such organization, but the propaganda in the upcoming months will be so heavy that by 2012 approval ratings will probably rise to 70%

As the one who advocates socialism, I'm a bit puzzled as to what to endorse here.
On one hand, being the member of EU would probably take care of the local mafia goons who currently run the show in Croatia (and the rest of the Balkans).
But it would then institute a potentially even mightier foe - global corporate capitalists.

In Croatia we still have certain social benefits when it comes to unemployment, education and health care.
I'm not opposed to cutting down bureaucracy and putting all those redundant government employees to some more productive work, but it seems to me that EU has an agenda to push only certain industries - service, finance, "speculations" and sales.
Industrial and "real" production capacities have already reduced dramatically over here and EU will slash these completely (in Croatia's case this is mainly shipbuilding and agriculture)

If anyone here lives in Eastern European countries that had recently joined EU (in last 10 years), could you please comment on these issues and provide some insights as to what changed once your country became a member?

Also, where is EU heading? With Greece, Ireland, Portugal and Spain on the verge of bankruptcy?
How should the people of Croatia (or any other candidate country) be optimistic regarding the future membership if they can't even predict EU will be around in 2012?

One last thing - my personal observation regarding the Balkan region.
Every country in the Balkans (Bosnia, Serbia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro and Croatia) seems to have only one political mission to achieve - join the EU.
Politicians in power talk about this endlessly for years, as if the whole existence and purpose of our lives is to become a member of this glorious Union !
My question - what would happen with this region if the EU fell apart? My worries for such a scenario are great. I fear the war would brake out in a matter of months.

[Thirsty Crow]

Croatia is in the final stage of joining EU, but the citizen approval is below 50 % ! Since the law says that there should be a referendum in which people should vote on whether to join EU or not - propaganda has kicked in.
Popular political show on national TV yesterday ran an obviously biased report that made EU look like the wonderland.The moment when th3e enlightened Vesna P., a liberal, stated that "we" will be able to get funding (some 3.8 billion euro), but that "we" need to possess the "competitive advantage" (konkurentnost, jel) - boy did that made me cringe.

One country in specific was glorified to the extremes - Estonia.
I did a little research and discovered that the current situation in Estonia is not even remotely that pretty.


As EU expanded further to the east -each new member of the EU saw a drastic degeneration of the workers rights and social benefits. I feel as if the workers here are lured and tricked into becoming pro-EU crowd.You feel? Well, stop feeling and star knowing because it's a bloody obvious fact :tt2:
The deal is to get out of the mess, and capital investment (something which cannot happen "from within" the country, at least not to a significant extent) is the saviour of the day. In order to attract capital, workers will have to drop certain pretences and accept the fact that we're neck deep in shit. The final step in this rhetorical game is to avoid even hinting at the possibility that capitalist relations are something that is not a natural fact. And that brings us to the point where the enlightened liberal, or not so enlightened, spews the idea that workers should be satisfied with new jobs (since unemployment is skyrocketing).


People are not stupid, they see that EU is getting weaker and that riots are getting larger. Naturally they are opposed to joining such organization, but the propaganda in the upcoming months will be so heavy that by 2012 approval ratings will probably rise to 70%But I think we can count on nationalists counter-propaganda, which could get dangerously effective if it invokes the legacy of the late first president.

I'll address the rest of your points later. Good thread.

EDIT: Oh yeah, just a note or a question:

Why on earth do you think that there is a possibility of war if EU broke up?
I hope you didn't fall for that shit about civilized Europeans holding the whole thing together lest Balkan savages commence bloodshed. Or that shit about eternal, primal hatreb between Balkan ethnicities.

[punisa]

The moment when th3e enlightened Vesna P., a liberal, stated that "we" will be able to get funding (some 3.8 billion euro), but that "we" need to possess the "competitive advantage" (konkurentnost, jel) - boy did that made me cringe.

Hey neighbor :lol:
Glad to see that the yesterday's show caught some attention, it actually motivated me to move the discussion all the way here to the Revleft :)
Vesna Pusic (info: she is the main representative of liberals in Croatia) is a typical indoctrinated neo liberal. I hope people in Croatia don't buy the crap she throws about.



You feel? Well, stop feeling and star knowing because it's a bloody obvious fact :tt2:
The deal is to get out of the mess, and capital investment (something which cannot happen "from within" the country, at least not to a significant extent) is the saviour of the day. In order to attract capital, workers will have to drop certain pretences and accept the fact that we're neck deep in shit. The final step in this rhetorical game is to avoid even hinting at the possibility that capitalist relations are something that is not a natural fact. And that brings us to the point where the enlightened liberal, or not so enlightened, spews the idea that workers should be satisfied with new jobs (since unemployment is skyrocketing).

I take it you share my opinion that the current helpless situation we are in is in fact making the process of joining EU "mandatory"? At least the majority of working class will soon perceive it this way.



But I think we can count on nationalists counter-propaganda, which could get dangerously effective if it invokes the legacy of the late first president.
I'll address the rest of your points later. Good thread.


Indeed ! This is one of those situations where we could expect the awakening of the strong right wing nationalist ideas which were in a state of moderate silence for the past decade.



Oh yeah, just a note or a question:

Why on earth do you think that there is a possibility of war if EU broke up?
I hope you didn't fall for that shit about civilized Europeans holding the whole thing together lest Balkan savages commence bloodshed. Or that shit about eternal, primal hatreb between Balkan ethnicities.

No, of course not - neither of that.
Those things are just propaganda myths.
I was more thinking along the lines of the state of our economies. As you know, crooked governments and tycoon thieves have destroyed almost the whole economy. This is even worse in our neighborhood (Bosnia and Serbia).
Now joining the EU seems as the only card left that might be able to keep these countries economically afloat.

My worry is this - if EU collapses, the bad pro-western governments we learned to hate would probably get replaced with even worse hard line nationalists.
I don't buy the stories that we are merely savage tribes just waiting for a bloodshed.
But you do have some moderate politicians such as Stipe Mesic (ex Croatian president) who already threatened about sending the army to Bosnia (Brčko district).
Of course, these were stupid and wild statements.
But still, I can imagine the situation in Balkans worsening under the weight of the financial crisis.
And such times are unfortunately fertile grounds for war sparks.

As for EU, we are bombarded with false promises these days. I think it would be great if people from Eastern Europe would join this conversation.

Isn't it funny that each time we have TV report about EU (they are increasing) you always have the interview with some diplomat, businessman, high class manager etc? It's as if the working class of EU is non existent (!) or has migrated to Antarctica ! :lol:

[Thirsty Crow]

Hey neighbor :lol:
Glad to see that the yesterday's show caught some attention, it actually motivated me to move the discussion all the way here to the Revleft :)
Vesna Pusic (info: she is the main representative of liberals in Croatia) is a typical indoctrinated neo liberal. I hope people in Croatia don't buy the crap she throws about.I can assure you that a good deal of them buy her crap as she's seen (as the entire liberal-socialdemocrat bunch; basically, I don't differentiate beteween Croatian socdems and liberals) as the enlightened, quasi-European counterweight against the corrupt conservatives running the show. She'll bait the educated professionals from the middle class, and a good deal of the youth



I take it you share my opinion that the current helpless situation we are in is in fact making the process of joining EU "mandatory"? At least the majority of working class will soon perceive it this way.I do not think that it is useful to talk about this process as "mandatory". Political parties sure like to portray the situation as such. But what is important is to asses possible outcomes and consequences of a refusal to join the EU. I do not have a firm opinion on that matter, and it would be great if someone with more knowledge on the inner workings and dynamics of the Union could provide us with a correct perspective.


Indeed ! This is one of those situations where we could expect the awakening of the strong right wing nationalist ideas which were in a state of moderate silence for the past decade.The principle paradox of this situation consists of the character of the opposition towards EU - nationalists and socialists. I cannot really know what to expect from a development of sucgh a situation, but I think it is quite clear that antionalists will be at the fore of the anti-EU movement, given the catastrophic state of both the workers' movement and their political parties.
maybe we could expect, if Croats declined the opportuinity to join the Union, sharper social polarization...something which I don't know hot to react to. Sure,I would gladly see such a development, since ti could potentially lead to a cleraly class based radical politics reclaiming the ground once occupied by enlightened liberals.



No, of course not - neither of that.
Those things are just propaganda myths.
I was more thinking along the lines of the state of our economies. As you know, crooked governments and tycoon thieves have destroyed almost the whole economy. This is even worse in our neighborhood (Bosnia and Serbia).
Now joining the EU seems as the only card left that might be able to keep these countries economically afloat. Or another intra-regional union, economically based, which would leave separate nation-states' sovereignity intact. GHowever, I doubt there is a real chance of such an development.
But I do have a problem with your argument regarding corrupt governmens and tycoon thiefs. It seems as if peošple of diverse social background fierclyhate and oppose such practices, believeing that these are the only sources of problems we are facing today. Hell, it isn't only a matter of outright robbery...it's a matter of a mode of production which enbles the profit of few at the expense of many. It's all to easy to accpet the propaganda which would like to see "socialism" (something that didn't exist in Yugoslavia) as something that belongs to the past. It's also easy, from this standpoint, to accept the promises of capitalist prosperity, only if we dealt with these corrput politicians and thieves. It's a sepcific myth of the transition, that only a few individuals are entirely responsible for the consequences which we are facing today. Hence calls for flexibilization, the betterment of the index of competitiveness and struggle against corruption.
We're basically, as it seems to me, at an impasse.




As for EU, we are bombarded with false promises these days. I think it would be great if people from Eastern Europe would join this conversation.
Yeah, I agtree. Come on people, join the talks :)