Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic

[Impulse97]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sahrawi_Arab_Democratic_Republic

Any thoughts? Should we as a left push for recognition of SADR?

In my opinion we need to help them push the Moroccans out and have true independence. Then push for international recognition and admittance to the UN.:hammersickle::trotski::hammersickle:

[Yazman]

Colonial borders are ridiculously broken, so it should not surprise anybody when said borders begin to break down. Yet it should also not surprise anybody when states refuse to give up territory.

[freepalestine]

joining NATO!!??!!!!!!!!!!!!


written in reply to the op-who as edited 1stpost

[Crimson Commissar]

They're just another islamic theocratic state, so in my opinion they can go piss the fuck off.

[freepalestine]

They're just another islamic theocratic state, so in my opinion they can go piss the fuck off.thats wrong.
also the polisario arent islamists.

newssite on saharwi independence struggle
http://www.wsrw.org (http://www.anonym.to/?http://www.wsrw.org/).

[Impulse97]

I think we should. Any place that converts to Socialism is one more that will prove to the world that it can work.:hammersickle::che::hammersickle:

[Crimson Commissar]

I think we should. Any place that converts to Socialism is one more that will prove to the world that it can work.:hammersickle::che::hammersickle:
But it isn't a socialist state. We can't keep supporting these fucking reactionary states just because they're "fighting against imperialism". We can NEVER co-operate with the enemy. Any state that isn't socialist is our enemy and always will be.

[Impulse97]

How is it reactionary? Did you even read the links?:hammersickle::che::hammersickle:

[gorillafuck]

They're just another islamic theocratic state, so in my opinion they can go piss the fuck off.
where did you get the impression they're Islamists?:confused:

[Jack]

He was just trying to shit on a National Liberation movement.

[Crimson Commissar]

where did you get the impression they're Islamists?:confused:
"The constitution also defines Sahrawis as a Muslim, African and Arab people"

Plus they have the islamic symbol on their flag. It's quite obvious that they're islamic theocrats, although probably not actually islamists. The USA doesn't even openly state they're christian, but you'd probably agree that they are a christian theocracy, right?

[gorillafuck]

"The constitution also defines Sahrawis as a Muslim, African and Arab people"

Plus they have the islamic symbol on their flag. It's quite obvious that they're islamic theocrats, although probably not actually islamists. The USA doesn't even openly state they're christian, but you'd probably agree that they are a christian theocracy, right?
No the US is definitely not a Christian theocracy. Conservativism and religious influence =/= Theocracy.

You might want to look up what a theocracy is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theocracy

[Dimentio]

Colonial borders are ridiculously broken, so it should not surprise anybody when said borders begin to break down. Yet it should also not surprise anybody when states refuse to give up territory.

When Spain withdrew from their Saharan possessions, Morocco immediately invaded, much like Indonesia invaded East Timor. What Morocco now is doing is to try to make Moroccan settlers the majority of Western Sahara.

It is not a matter of leftism. It is the matter of the right of West Saharans to their own identity in their own homeland. Too sadly, it is hard to keep up activism for all conflicts.

[Crimson Commissar]

When Spain withdrew from their Saharan possessions, Morocco immediately invaded, much like Indonesia invaded East Timor. What Morocco now is doing is to try to make Moroccan settlers the majority of Western Sahara.

It is not a matter of leftism. It is the matter of the right of West Saharans to their own identity in their own homeland. Too sadly, it is hard to keep up activism for all conflicts.
And what happens when they succeed and set up yet another capitalist state in the world? Will you praise them for that aswell?

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

How would official SADR independence bring us any closer to a classless society based on material abundance with an absence of private property in the means of production, the market, money, wage slavery, etc.?

[Martin Blank]

How would official SADR independence bring us any closer to a classless society based on material abundance with an absence of private property in the means of production, the market, money, wage slavery, etc.?

It doesn't. It just gives kneejerk "anti-imperialists" another "movement" to cheer for without ever learning anything real about it. Kinda like Hamas, the Ba'athists or the Talib'an.

POLISARIO is and always has been a reactionary organization since it was founded. Even though it mouthed language about "socialism" in the 1970s, POLISARIO is a pro-free market organization. The UGTSARIO, POLISARIO's labor federation, is a phantom organization, based mainly in refugee camps where unemployment is 99.9 percent. It is said that UGTSARIO has some members in the area occupied by Morocco, but no one really knows how many, who they are or if they really even exist. Regardless, though, the UGTSARIO is subordinated to the free-market "national unity" promoted by POLISARIO.

There is nothing even remotely progressive here.

[Martin Blank]

Incidentally, for the benefit of the peanut gallery (well, one asshat in particular, who negrepped my above post), I've been familiar with POLISARIO since the mid-1980s -- longer than most of you have been alive. I studied the situation in the disputed territory directly from 1986 to 1989, because of the years-long online UN simulations we did in school (yes, we did online sims, organized by the University of Michigan, on a bulletin board they set up). One of the things I had to do is study the organization, their politics, know all the main players, their politics and the parameters for their making policy, etc. So, the short answer to your otherwise hidden question is that I've probably read more POLISARIO material than you have, and I stand by what I've said. If Wikipedia also agrees, all the better.

[Devrim]

It is not a matter of leftism. It is the matter of the right of West Saharans to their own identity in their own homeland. Too sadly, it is hard to keep up activism for all conflicts.

Just out of interest what is this different 'identity' that they have which is different from the identity of Moroccan nomads?

Devrim

[Glenn-Beck]

Morocco is a country that is pro-U.S and serves U.S imperialist interests in that region.

[Kiev Communard]

Actually I would consider the all-Maghreb socialist federation the best solution to this and other regional "national" problems, but in that case I am in favour of Sahrawi independence if it is not proclaimed under some reactionary Islamist government and if it pursues even some vague "revolutionary-democratic" policies and will evict the TNKs. But I don't think current POLISARIO movement will stick to these positions.