Marx and Marxism??

[Comrade_Stalin]

I have noted that Marx never called himself a Marxist, to the point that he said "I'm not a Marxist". But many of his followers and those fighting against him have called him one. I would like to here the reasons you think this has happened.

[Broletariat]

I'm p. sure Karl Marx was a follower of the ideas of Karl Marx. He just said that "I'm not a Marxist" in context of "hey you guys over there labeling yoself as Marxist are batshit insane y'hear I aint down widdat."

[Widerstand]

Well, Marxist roughly means "agreeing with Marx' ideas." Obviously Marx agreed with his ideas, seems sorta redundant. I wouldn't call myself Widerstandist either, though y'all free to do so.

[ed miliband]

I'm p. sure Karl Marx was a follower of the ideas of Karl Marx. He just said that "I'm not a Marxist" in context of "hey you guys over there labeling yoself as Marxist are batshit insane y'hear I aint down widdat."

Not so much that they were batshit insane but that they rejected reformism.

[Hoipolloi Cassidy]

"Ce qu'il y a de certain c'est que moi, je ne suis pas Marxiste." Karl Marx, quoted by Engels in a letter to Eduard Bernstein, Marx-Engels, Werke, XXXV, 338.

This concerned the "minimum" demands in the "Programme du Parti Ouvrier" written by Marx, Jules Guesde, Lafargue and Engels. Guesde thought that minimum achievable demands should not be seriously pursued, but used as bait to "free the proletariat of its last [sic] reformist illusion." Marx accused Guesde and Lafargue of "revolutionary phrase-mongering" and denying the value of reformist struggles. Note, of course, that the letter is addressed to Bernstein...

[Broletariat]

Not so much that they were batshit insane but that they rejected reformism.
Well yea, I was just employing hyperbole because it was late at night and I was a bit hyper >_>

[Zanthorus]

Not so much that they were batshit insane but that they rejected reformism.

Well, this is what is claimed by the note to the Collected Works, however I don't see the evidence in any actual writings by Marx or Engels. The source for the 'I am not a Marxist' quote which is cited there is Engels letter to Bernstein of 1882, where he asserts that the despite the peculiarity of French 'Marxism', Bernstein is wrong to claim that Lafargue and co have no influence or esteem in France. The other source for the quote is Engels letter to Schmidt of August 5th 1890, where he complains that to a good deal of people the materialist conception of history has become an excuse for not actually studying history, and then gives the 'I am not a Marxist quote'. From the evidence available, it would seem that the most plausible explanation is that Lafargue and Guesde were using the MCoH as an excuse to not actually study history, and that this would be out of line with what Marx regarded as Marxism.

ZeroNowhere did point out (http://libcom.org/forums/theory/context-marxs-i-am-not-marxist-quote-09062009) in a thread on libcom that Guesde was an advocate of the Bakuninist 'General Strike' strategy, and that if anything this is a more likely point of conflict than the nature of the demands of the programme's economic section.


Note, of course, that the letter is addressed to Bernstein...

I'm not sure why that would be particularly interesting, first of all there is nothing in the letter about reformism, Engels is criticising Bernstein's view that the French Marxists have no social weight. Second of all, Bernstein only became a revisionist when the long depression ended and it became clear that capitalism was not in any kind of permanent crisis.

[Revolution starts with U]

Jesus was not a christian.

[Hoipolloi Cassidy]

I'm not sure why that would be particularly interesting,.

For the same reason you find the rest interesting: quotes reread in context are always more interesting than not. Where is the hard copy of this letter? Who owned it? When was it published? When and why was it made public and for what purposes?

Beware the Proleptic Monster, Mr. Z.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

"Marxism" has been a label applied to dogmas that have little to do with Marx for many years.

One who recognizes the contributions of Karl Marx the man needn't be a "Marxist" anymore than one who recognizes the contributions of Darwin to the understanding needs to be a "Darwinist."