Cuba Today

[Pravda Soyuz]

Cuba's economy is in a really bad place. The borgeoisie claim that it is proof of the failure of socialism. If you were that Cuban head of state, what would you do to improve Cuba's economy?

[Comrade1]

Collectivise the means of production and equal wages of labour vouchers. They went wrong from the begining.

[Burn A Flag]

Well if it were me i'd implement some more revolutionary purges. I'd surpass Mao and Stalin's death toll combined in Cuba! Then I would make a year zero plan to start over with the five comrades who remained. :laugh:

Seriously though, I think the self employment program was a progressive step. Secondly, I agree with the above about Labor vouchers and collective control. Part of the reason they have these problems is also the blockade, can't really change that. But other than that, modernizing Cuba's agricultural system.

[Comrade1]

Well if it were me i'd implement some more revolutionary purges. I'd surpass Mao and Stalin's death toll combined in Cuba! Then I would make a year zero plan to start over with the five comrades who remained. :laugh:

Seriously though, I think the self employment program was a progressive step. Secondly, I agree with the above about Labor vouchers and collective control. Part of the reason they have these problems is also the blockade, can't really change that. But other than that, modernizing Cuba's agricultural system.
Only thing Stalin had the right mind-set about was collective farming.

[Burn A Flag]

Only thing Stalin had the right mind-set about was collective farming.

Not the way his regime implemented it though. Nor the "rich and poor" collectives, with some collectives being able to hire labor from other collectives.

[Comrade1]

Not the way his regime implemented it though. Nor the "rich and poor" collectives, with some collectives being able to hire labor from other collectives.
Agree, different implications will be nessesary but the theory of collectivism is very good. Such as collective property where society will decide how it will be used.

[MilkmanofHumanKindness]

Give the workers control of the means of production. Democratic councils to determine production, distribution etc.

[Comrade1]

Give the workers control of the means of production. Democratic councils to determine production, distribution etc.
Agree, I'm all for workers' councils, and labour vouchers and prolitariat control the means of prodcuction and self-managment. The councils will also decide how common property will be used.

[Hiero]

Collectivise the means of production and equal wages of labour vouchers. They went wrong from the begining.



Give the workers control of the means of production. Democratic councils to determine production, distribution etc.



Agree, I'm all for workers' councils, and labour vouchers and prolitariat control the means of prodcuction and self-managment. The councils will also decide how common property will be used.


Wow who would have thought such deepth and insight could come from anarchist. Well I am glad you guys got it all worked out, who would have thought? Colelctivise the sugar and all will be well!

[Comrade1]

Wow who would have thought such deepth and insight could come from anarchist. Well I am glad you guys got it all worked out, who would have thought? Colelctivise the sugar and all will be well!
Comrade, I'm a Marxist

[Soseloshvili]

Cuba's economy is in such desperate straits because of it's tremendous leap from a monocrop, agricultural society to a multisector economy, with a fully developed industrial and service sector.

The problem is, now, that Cuba's primary sector is, well, understaffed. Raúl Castro did a speech last year about how the sugar crop isn't near as large as it used to be, with the huge focus on the service and industrial sectors.

My plan? Launch a campaign to focus on developing agriculture. In Cuba, a job on the farms is not considered "good", everyone wants one of the service sector jobs. Not to mention that agriculture was never *fully* collectivized.

So:
- Collectivize fully Cuba's primary sector, though gradually, and from a community level
- Educate workers and the youth about agriculture, and its importance
- Educate workers as to the science of things like agriculture. This means increasing post-secondary education options for things like agriculture. I know that a Canadian team just finished organizing a Cuban school for dairy farmers.
- Try to organize Cuban society to be proud of its farmers. Make a farmers day or something.

[redz]

Cuba's economy is in a really bad place. The borgeoisie claim that it is proof of the failure of socialism. If you were that Cuban head of state, what would you do to improve Cuba's economy?


What's the status of Cuba's attempt to exploit its offshore oil resources?

Redz

[redz]

Cuba's economy is in a really bad place. The borgeoisie claim that it is proof of the failure of socialism. If you were that Cuban head of state, what would you do to improve Cuba's economy?


First of all, a revolutionary Marxist wouldn't be "head of state" without a worker's POLITICAL revolution to sweep away the Stalinist-type bureacracy and replace it with a true workers' government based on workers' councils. With that in place, the revolutionary leadership would end the zig-zags toward piecemeal capitalist-type restorations and assert effective democratic central planning (again, via workers' councils).

I agree with some of the recommendations for more democratic collectivization of agriculture, but this economic sector is extremely precarious, especially in the context of the global capitalist agricultural market and the American embargo. Cuba probably needs to try to diversify its economy as much as possible, as it "holds on" pending socialist revolution elsewhere, especially in the USA.

My instinct says it's vitally important to address the well-being of the Cuban working people as much as possible, and promote their involvement in basic decisionmaking - this surely is the most important defense against the threat of capitalist restoration.

Redz

[Wanted Man]

Collectivise the means of production and equal wages of labour vouchers. They went wrong from the begining.


Give the workers control of the means of production. Democratic councils to determine production, distribution etc.


Agree, I'm all for workers' councils, and labour vouchers and prolitariat control the means of prodcuction and self-managment. The councils will also decide how common property will be used.

Well that sounds simple enough. Why hasn't this easy and universally applicable model been instituted throughout the rest of the world?

[Cane Nero]

Well that sounds simple enough. Why hasn't this easy and universally applicable model been instituted throughout the rest of the world?
The difficulty is to remove the monopoly of the means of production in the hands of a few.

[RED DAVE]

(1) Help lead a new revolution based on workers control of the economy.

(2) Once that's accomplished, publically commit suicide for having fucked it up for 50 years.

RED DAVE

[pranabjyoti]

Another way is make a group with Venezuela, Bolivia and perhaps and together constitute a common fund of research and development for science and technology. After the funds being constituted, start researching and developing new technologies and products. IT IS POSSIBLE. If you search the net, you will get a lot potentially lucrative ideas floating around, which need little funding for materialization.
Sorry to say, most people in this thread (and revleft too) call themselves Marxist but they just don't have the basic idea of Marxism and are viewing everything from a socio-political viewpoint. I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT THE SUGGESTIONS MADE ABOVE IS JUST IMPOSSIBLE WITHOUT SOME LEVEL OF DEVELOPMENT OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY.
Most are unable to sense that what they demand is just impossible without achieving a level of development in science and technology.

[the last donut of the night]

Another way is make a group with Venezuela, Bolivia and perhaps and together constitute a common fund of research and development for science and technology. After the funds being constituted, start researching and developing new technologies and products. IT IS POSSIBLE. If you search the net, you will get a lot potentially lucrative ideas floating around, which need little funding for materialization.
Sorry to say, most people in this thread (and revleft too) call themselves Marxist but they just don't have the basic idea of Marxism and are viewing everything from a socio-political viewpoint. I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT THE SUGGESTIONS MADE ABOVE IS JUST IMPOSSIBLE WITHOUT SOME LEVEL OF DEVELOPMENT OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY.
Most are unable to sense that what they demand is just impossible without achieving a level of development in science and technology.

I'm so sorry to say this dude, but CAPS LOCK do not mean your points travel more rapidly across revleft. Furthermore, it gets really annoying when you bring up the charge that nobody here is a communist, but liberal infiltrators ready to bring down Marxism. As for your points, I don't feel like adding to the discussion, as I wish to read more and then comment. However, just chill. Manners, man.

[pranabjyoti]

I'm so sorry to say this dude, but CAPS LOCK do not mean your points travel more rapidly across revleft. Furthermore, it gets really annoying when you bring up the charge that nobody here is a communist, but liberal infiltrators ready to bring down Marxism. As for your points, I don't feel like adding to the discussion, as I wish to read more and then comment. However, just chill. Manners, man.
I have never said that they are liberal infiltrators, but want to say that they lack the very basic idea of Marxism. If you can not make the difference, I am helpless.
If you don't have the capability to understand that what you are demanding can have the very basic objective possibility of being fulfilled, that's your fault. And I am just trying to point out in that direction.

[Rafiq]

Cuba's economy is in a really bad place. The borgeoisie claim that it is proof of the failure of socialism. If you were that Cuban head of state, what would you do to improve Cuba's economy?

Ask them to compare Cuba's economy today with Cuba's economy when it had capitalism.

Really, when you compare Cuba to the Islands surrounding it, it actually has a pretty excellent economy.

[Sixiang]

Ask them to compare Cuba's economy today with Cuba's economy when it had capitalism.

Really, when you compare Cuba to the Islands surrounding it, it actually has a pretty excellent economy.
This is a good point.


I'm so sorry to say this dude, but CAPS LOCK do not mean your points travel more rapidly across revleft. Furthermore, it gets really annoying when you bring up the charge that nobody here is a communist, but liberal infiltrators ready to bring down Marxism. As for your points, I don't feel like adding to the discussion, as I wish to read more and then comment. However, just chill. Manners, man.
Likewise.


Wow who would have thought such deepth and insight could come from anarchist. Well I am glad you guys got it all worked out, who would have thought? Colelctivise the sugar and all will be well!
:lol:

[Sentinel]

While ruled by a clique of party bureaucrats and lacking authentic workers democracy much like the old USSR, unlike countries like China Cuba has so far been undisputably on the socialist road, insofar it hasn't implemented a market based economy like most of the former socialist countries. Enormous gains in living standards were made after the revolution and have largely been maintained, despite serious economic distress.

When it comes to statistics like life expectancy and infant mortality, literacy rate, amount of doctors per capita etc Cuba is still an example to follow not only for it's Caribbean neighbours but for the entire world. But now something is happening.

The governmernt of Fidel Castro refused to implement anything except very limited economic compromises despite the quite harsh situation that the country was in two decades ago, after the socialist bloc collapsed while the US trade embargo against Cuba continued.

The situation eased somewhat when the friendly Chavez government came to power in neighbouring, oil-rich Venezuela and trade agreements could be signed, but it hasn't been enough. As Che's dream of fully industrialising the country and making it self-reliant wasn't realised, Cuba's economy is still today mainly dependant of the global sugar market and external trade with countries like China. For example most (80%) of the food consumed is imported.

Atm, it looks like Raul Castro and his supporters in the party believe that increased privatisations (still on a relatively small scale) will lead Cuba to a new age of prosperity. The question remains, whether they will stop there, and thus strive for a society still with commonly owned important businesses and infrastructure, but a small private sector as well -- or whether they will go down the Chinese path, revisioning Cuban socialism into a fullblown state controlled market economy..

Enomically speaking that would be a disaster as Cuba is a much smaller country than China. It would become totally dependent of the capitalist world market. But the worst thing about this scenario would probably be the psychological blow against the socialist movement globally. However deformed, Cuba has as stated so far remained an in certain ways very progressive anti-capitalist alternative.

Right now it's hard to see what path Cuba will take. Atm it still seems like Raul is merely aiming for a 'light version' of the Chinese model; if the recently announced reforms pass around 20% of the Cuban workers will be replaced into the private sector. But the changes are still radical in many ways, it will for example now become possible for Cubans to employ non-family members for a wage.

This said, these reforms have to be seen as controversial and no doubt there is hard internal debate going on. Hopefully, Cuba might still adopt another course, and instead of focusing on privatisations and trade with capitalist/state capitalist countries manages to build up the economy by technological development made possible by, and combined with, increased cooperation and trade with other anti-imperialists on the South American continent and the rest of the so called third world.

It's high time for Raul and his old guard to join Fidel in retirement and give room for a new generation of revolutionaries, unaffected by the pessimist and compromising approach that already has shown it's true face in China -- and instead willing usher the island back into the road of true socialist development. Implementation of increased authentic workers control would be the natural first step..

[theAnarch]

it be really nice if the Cuban state had an email adress you could submit suggestions too.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Ask them to compare Cuba's economy today with Cuba's economy when it had capitalism.

Really, when you compare Cuba to the Islands surrounding it, it actually has a pretty excellent economy.

Problem is, whilst it is factually true to say that the majority of Cubans are better off in many ways, even now, than they were under Batista, it would be suicidal to go to a group of people who are struggling to survive thanks to an embargo that was started in response to Castroite revolution, and say 'you've never had it so good.'

If I was Cuban head of state i'd fucking abolish my own position, to start with. National power structures in Cuba are admittedly quite hierarchical, which I guess at a time of war might be needed, but also overshadows the more democratic local political and economic structures.

What Cuba should do is, as Pranabjyoti says, make every effort to make closer economic ties to the ALBA group, especially those like Venezuela and Bolivia who can provide currency and energy, crops etc. at subsidised prices.

They'd also do well (though how they'd finance this is open to question...) to industrialise further and take advantage of exotic fruits, fresh fish and so on, as well as the growing of crops, that could be exported to ALBA nations.

In short, Cuba alone cannot win against the US, especially as there is no USSR anymore. It needs to align with a political force that will not be bowed by US pressure. ALBA is the only force that Cuba can, realistically, turn to, and it should do so.

[Tavarisch_Mike]

I wonder how much a national industry could replace parts of the tourism when it comes to financy. In the same time that tourism have saved the country its also a form of cuban glasnost/perestroyka, many young people just see rich westernes and think that evrydody is well off in Europe or North America making them belive that they can get all this consumerism and still keep theire wellfare system. Tourism have also oppened towards the "free-market" by letting in currency on the streets corruption and street-capitalism is now a part of the cubans daylylife all frome young girls selling themselves to old ugly men, fake cohiba-producers to jinteros willing to help or guide for some 'convertibles'.

[Wanted Man]

it be really nice if the Cuban state had an email adress you could submit suggestions too.

Contact details of all the ministries: http://www.cubagob.cu/gobierno/fichas/fichas.htm

Happy mailing.

[pranabjyoti]

I don't think that anybody will get any response.

[Wanted Man]

I don't think that anybody will get any response.

I know, but I also don't expect that anyone will try, and that nobody has even bothered to look for it themselves. Most of the time, this is just a typical rhetorical Revleft kind of thing.

Quite honestly, I also wouldn't know how to respond to a letter in a foreign language. Especially considering that it's probably going to be somewhere along the lines of:

Dear Raul,

Why must you be such a Stalinist bureaucrat? As we all know, in your country, the bureaucracy controls everything and exploits the workers. I suggest you change your ways and, like, y'know, give them control over the MoP? That should solve all your economic problems. Well, okay, thanks for reading and looking forward to hearing from you.

Yours sincerely,

Some guy

[pranabjyoti]

Language isn't a problem with google translator. But, the problem is if Raul said "Please, come and take my chair and try to implement what you are suggesting", then the real problem would begin (for thread writers).

[Soseloshvili]

it be really nice if the Cuban state had an email adress you could submit suggestions too.

What the hell's wrong with old style mail, send 'em a letter, if it really matters. There's an embassy in Ottawa, which is not to far from here, we could send it to.

Will they listen? No! Cuba has the right to sort out it's own affairs, and we have no right to "suggest" what they should and shouldn't do, what are we, America?

This entire thread is, like most everything on this site - it pointless. Hypothetical, merely.

So, let people continue on with their intellectual masturbation, why the hell not.