Canudos:A prototype of communism

[Cane Nero]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_Canudos

[Lunatic Concept]

Explain? :confused:

[Raúl Duke]

umm...what?

No

[Cane Nero]

Explain? :confused:
I'm sorry, is that I could not find a decent text in English about Canudos.

A quick summary: In northeastern Brazil there is a lot of poverty and hunger due to both the severe drought and lack of rain and the monopolization of fertile land by large landowners.
There was a man named Antonio Conselheiro, which is the equivalent of a Brazilian Jesus, who came to this place called Canudos (Straws) and began to create some sort of community, accepting all who tried to find a land as a means of subsistence ( including recently freed slaves at that time), appropriating lands that were in the name of big landowners.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_9ITfsgmDZwU/TN2oSdJWLpI/AAAAAAAAAjM/xtTj0FoVFlU/s320/antonio-conselheiro.gif

The newly proclaimed Republic pressured by large landowners start sending several waves of attack against this community, who defended itself as it could, but were massacred by the forces of the Republic that had more sophisticated weapons such as cannons.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/A_matadeira.jpg

[Cane Nero]

Well It was a society based on religion, but also tried to be self-sustaining based on the distribution of land equally among the members.

[Red Commissar]

Interesting. Haven't heard about this before. But I think it has more similarities with the Taiping Rebellion in China. Both were religiously influenced and a rebellion against the then dominant social arrangement and landownership.

[Cane Nero]

I finally found a decent text on the subject:
http://theanarchistlibrary.org//HTML/Os_Cangaceiros__Millenarian_Rebels__Prophets_and_O utlaws.html

It also portrays some other revolts that have occurred in Brazil, like the Cangaceiros.

[Luís Henrique]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_Canudos

Wikipedia is an irredeemable shame.


This was the deadliest civil war in Brazilian history.[/URL]

Was it? I doubt it was deadlier than the Cabanagem.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_Canudos#cite_note-revistaepoca.globo.com-0"] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_Canudos#cite_note-revistaepoca.globo.com-0) Wikipedia itself estimates 100,000 dead in the Cabanagem (vs 30,000 in Canudos).


in the semi-arid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-arid) backlands ("sertão" or "caatinga", in Portuguese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_language))

Sertão means hinterland; caatinga is a kind of vegetation typical of the Northeatern hinterland.


in the northeast tip of the state (then province) of Bahia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahia).

Bahia was a state, no longer a province, since 1889.


Bahia at this time was a desperately poor zone, with a depressed economy based on subsistence agriculture and cattle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cattle) raising, no large cities

Eh? What about Salvador? It was certainly a large city for Brazilian standards.


and a disenfranchised population composed largely of former black slaves (freedom from slavery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery) was granted in 1888), impoverished and uprooted Indians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_people_of_Brazil) and mestizos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mestizo).

This is totally confuse. In Salvador (and along the coastline), there certainly was a predominant population of former Black (and mixed-race) slaves (and former free Blacks, who would descend from former slaves). The indigenous population was already very small at that time in Bahia. In the hinterland, a population basically descended of mixed Portuguese/indigenous ancestors predominated.


Soon his preaching and the promises of a better world attracted almost 8,000 new residents, who started to cause trouble in the region.

Trouble?


Fearing an invasion of the city of Juazeiro (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juazeiro) by the "Conselhistas", who had a dispute with a lumber merchant, its mayor appealed hysterically to the provincial government.

Histerically?


resulting in the soldiers' prompt massacre by a band of “jagunços (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jagun%C3%A7o)” (as hired armed hands were called) sympathetic to Antônio Conselheiro.

So the rebels hired armed hands? Seems quite improbable. And were the supposed jagunços "sympathetic" to Conselheiro, or, as it seems obvious, actual members of his movement?


The defeat of the Pires Ferreira campaign and the news about the ferocity and fanaticism of Canudos’ inhabitants provoked a great national outcry,

Ferocity?


Lacking in ammunition, food and water, and unable to resist the attacking waves, which continued despite the rebels' heavy losses, the military force had to retreat, once again conceding the field to the rebels.

Well, yes - but the main fact about Colonel César's defeat - that the rebels took enormous amount of food, ammonition, and weaponry, from the routed attacking army, is simply ignored.

But no, Canudos was no prototype of Communism. They had extremely confuse political ideas (tending to sympathise with the ousted monarchy), and no viable economic plans (more than the simple egalitarian distribution of land into small lots owned by patriarchal families.

Luís Henrique

[Cane Nero]

Wikipedia is an irredeemable shame.


But no, Canudos was no prototype of Communism. They had extremely confuse political ideas (tending to sympathise with the ousted monarchy),

As I said the text of Wikipedia is total shit.
About whether they sympathize with the monarchy, I'm not so sure. From what I understood the Republic used it as an argument for the destruction of Canudos.



and no viable economic plans (more than the simple egalitarian distribution of land into small lots owned by patriarchal families.

Luís Henrique

Exactly that's why I said Canudos was a prototype of Communism.
Of course, communism is not just based in agriculture but the idea of egalitarian distribution of small lots of land for many families is quite progressive for people with no political knowledge.
And still able to defend this community of several waves of attack by soldiers, theoretically, trained and better armed.

[Luís Henrique]

As I said the text of Wikipedia is total shit.
About whether they sympathize with the monarchy, I'm not so sure. From what I understood the Republic used it as an argument for the destruction of Canudos.

Oh, they did. Out of ignorance, more than reactionarism, but still. What the Republic did was to pretend they were an actual danger of restoration (which, of course, they were not) and then slaughter them in the most shameful way, including the ramsack of the town and the rape and execution of the survivors.


Exactly that's why I said Canudos was a prototype of Communism.

Even a prototype of communism would require, at a minimum, common ownership of land. They hadn't this; land was owned, privately, by families (patriarchal families, not experiments in free love).


Of course, communism is not just based in agriculture but the idea of egalitarian distribution of small lots of land for many families is quite progressive for people with no political knowledge.

It is "progressive" no doubt, but it is the old demand for land reform, not communism at all. And this has nothing to do with agriculture vs industry; it has to do with the non-collective use of land.


And still able to defend this community of several waves of attack by soldiers, theoretically, trained and better armed.

Government is partly guilty of this; the first expeditions underestimated the resistance, and actually served to reinforce the rebels with provisions, ammonition, and weaponry. As a result, the last expedition was somewhat overdimensioned.

That is not to say they didn't defend themselves with great skill and determination, which they obviously did. To what extent their moral strenght was due to their attachment to their land, or to the religious (and very reactionary) ideological drapings they wrapped it into, is a matter of speculation.

Luís Henrique

[Luís Henrique]

I finally found a decent text on the subject:
http://theanarchistlibrary.org//HTML/Os_Cangaceiros__Millenarian_Rebels__Prophets_and_O utlaws.html

It also portrays some other revolts that have occurred in Brazil, like the Cangaceiros.

I frankly cannot understand the fascination some in the left feel for the cangaceiros. While Canudos was certainly a popular movement against the landlords, albeit the religious and reactionary idelological dressings, the cangaceiros were nothing like this. They weren't even rebels; they were just unemployed hitmen, available for hiring by the landed oligarchy, terrorising the poor population of the sertão, particularly women. Rapes, iron branding of girls who disrespected their idea of how women should behave, personal vendettas on "honour" issues, etc.

Luís Henrique