Fascism and Capitalism

[Apoi_Viitor]

In Fascist countries, there was large-scale disruption of private enterprise, and subjection of corporations to the state. While there was never any collectivization, I can't see very many reasons why the development of Fascism would be welcomed by the bourgeios. Was it simply a lesser of evils to them?

[ComradeOm]

Fascism was a direct response to the gains made by the working class in the post-war period. In both Germany and Italy the objective was to destroy the 'trade-union state', as Weimar was dismissively referred to, and reverse the balance of power within the factory. In return for financial support Hitler explicitly promised (most notably at the infamous 20 Feb meeting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_Meeting_of_20_February_1933)) to freeze wage levels, combat unions and establish of regional bureaucracies (Treuhaender der Arbeit) to favourably regulate labour affairs. Nor would this support really come back to trouble them - most of the men who attended the 20 Feb meeting profited hugely from the war, with defence contracts making up for lost exports

What should be apparent from the above is that the bourgeoisie actively favoured increased state control in order to bolster their own power in the factories. Free trade and laissez faire are the policies of a dominant and confident bourgeoisie. Where this position is under threat, from either external competition or internal class struggle, then they are just as likely to advocate protectionist or interventionist measures

[Black Sheep]

Well, fascism was established (and was let to be established) in countries where the conservative values were weak, and bount to be overrun by the communist influence.
In both Italy and Germany, nazis and fascists sought and got political and financial support and guarantees by the capital, after providing guarantees about preserving property rights (especially in Italy, Mussolini's "movement" got the upper hand with the support of big landlords.The latter supported Mussolini, after he helped them against small farmers)

Wherever property was safe under conservative ideology & zeitgeist, the local rulers were able ti resist the fascist growth and put it down (like france and austria if i remember correctly).

[ComradeOm]

Well, fascism was established (and was let to be established) in countries where the conservative values were weak, and bount to be overrun by the communist influenceHa, the problem was quite the opposite. Weimar's demise was directly related to the presence of a powerful conservative/reactionary lobby that had never been convinced that the Republic was legitimate in the first place. There was never any serious threat of a 'communist takeover' in Germany or a new revolution; rather the objective of the Hindenburg ministries, and ultimate co-opting of the Nazis, was not to pre-empt the communists but to roll back socialist post-war gains

Similarly in Italy. The common denominator between the two was not threatened property rights or a weak bourgeoisie, but the strength (edit: or rather the lack of strength) of the state apparatus. There was never any serious possibility of fascism in France or Britain - despite serious anti-communist sentiment at the highest levels and, in France, the emergence of an energised mass labour movement - because the bourgeoisie accepted the legitimacy of their respective states and worked within their structures. Only when this was not the case, and the capitalists were forced to contemplate more radical solutions, did the potential for a fascist takeover materialise

[Cowboy Killer]

Capitalism is ultimately fascism because it is a genocide against the poor

[ComradeOm]

Capitalism is ultimately fascism because it is a genocide against the poorWell yes, if you completely rewrite the meanings of "capitalism", "fascism" and "genocide" :glare:

[Apoi_Viitor]

to freeze wage levels, combat unions and establish of regional bureaucracies (Treuhaender der Arbeit) to favourably regulate labour affairs.

But weren't there large 'safety net' programs in Nazi Germany too? And wasn't a substantial portion of the Nazi Party hostile to 'capitalists' (Such as Goebbels)?

[ComradeOm]

But weren't there large 'safety net' programs in Nazi Germany too?Nothing like the Weimar welfare state. Severely curtailing the scope of this system had begun with the Republic's final conservative ministries and the Nazis merely finished it off. Let's not forget that the origins of this system went back to Bismarck and it was well embedded in German society - no one was proposing to abolish it entirely

What the Nazis did was shift the emphasis from providing for those out of work to a) introducing racial criteria to determine who received benefits and b) redefine the nature of this help through the use of public works. So instead of simply receiving unemployment benefits, a German unemployed worker might be conscripted/enrolled into a work scheme where they would receive a subsistence wage for contributing labour to public works programmes


And wasn't a substantial portion of the Nazi Party hostile to 'capitalists' (Such as Goebbels)?The two important things to note about the NSDAP are that it was a fairly heterogeneous body and that the only real unifying policy, the only centre of gravity in the party, was the adulation of Adolf Hitler. There were various wings and factions within the party but Hitler was the only one making real policy and everyone was 'working towards the Fuhrer' (to use Kershaw's phrase)

So sometimes people highlight that X or Y believed in A or B but its largely irrelevant, to be simplistic, when discussing broad Nazi policy. The role of the party was to mobilise support in favour of these policies, not actually formulate them. Which is one reason why you have Christians and mystics, homosexuals and homophobes, etc, etc, rubbing shoulders in the same party. Largely Hitler tolerated, and actively encouraged, the growth of such factions but where there was a perceived threat to Fuhrer's personal standing (such as from Strasser) it was ruthlessly disposed of