Libertarian socialism, Anarchist communism

[kibbutznia]

Is there a differance between libertarian socialism and anarchist communism, or are they just two names for the same thing? any answers would be much appreciated :)

[syndicat]

Not all libertarian socialists are anarchist-communists. But it depends on how "anarchist communism" is defined to some extent. For example if it is defined to include abolition of money, then definitely not all libertarian socialists are "anarchist-communists".

[Magón]

It's more Libertarian Socialism and Social Anarchism (Anarcho-Socialism, whatever you want to call it,) are two of the same thing, just how people choose to define it over the other.

Libertarian Socialism isn't necessarily Anarcho-Communism like Syndicat said, but I'm sure you'll find that most who identify with Anarcho-Communism on here and else where, will also identify by being called Libertarian Socialists. (I do.)

[kibbutznia]

So other than anarcho-communism, what else would be called libertarian socialism? would that be things like sydicalism?

[Sosa]

Libertarian Socialism is also called Social Anarchism and includes:

Anarcho-Syndicalism
Anarcho-Communism
Collective Anarchism

So Anarcho-Communism falls under the broader Libertarian Socialist umbrella

[Old Man Diogenes]

Is there a differance between libertarian socialism and anarchist communism, or are they just two names for the same thing? any answers would be much appreciated :)

I thought that 'Libertarian Socialism' was an umbrella term for most schools of anti-authoritarian socialism, anarchist-communism being one of these.

[PoliticalNightmare]

Well, to provide a crudely brief definition, libertarian socialism specifies an economic system where the workers actively grasp control over the means of production (socialism) with little or no state intervention (libertarianism).

Anarchism specifies the abolition of any form of state while advocating a socialist economic system, so, as the poster above me suggests, "[anarchism] falls under the broader libertarian socialist umbrella". I'd say anarchism is one of the more radical forms of libertarian socialism as well (as I will explain in the final paragraph) as most anarchists are revolutionaries and advocate overthrowing the state and capitalism.

Basically, you can have lots of different forms of libertarian socialism (e.g. situationism, council communism, autonomous Marxism, etc.): anarchism is merely one of these many forms.

Some forms of libertarian socialism are also less radical, more reformist with the idea of slowly making changes to the political constitution to make the government smaller (and more democratic - and possibly one that no longer enforces private property rights) whilst advocating worker's strikes, trade unionism, democracy (in both government and in the work place). Perhaps, a libertarian socialist might be interested, for instance in advocating mutualism (community owned banks) through government grants or the like. So, overall, the term "libertarian socialism" is quite a diverse and encompassing political spectrum.

[syndicat]

Some forms of libertarian socialism are also less radical, more reformist with the idea of slowly making changes to the political constitution to make the government smaller (and more democratic - and possibly one that no longer enforces private property rights) whilst advocating worker's strikes, trade unionism, democracy (in both government and in the work place). Perhaps, a libertarian socialist might be interested, for instance in advocating mutualism (community owned banks) through government grants or the like. So, overall, the term "libertarian socialism" is quite a diverse and encompassing political spectrum.

i don't quite agree with you here. Libertarian socialism is anti-state. Period. This means a libertarian society is one where there is no state.

There may be different strategies for changing society that been proposed by people who could be plausibly referred to as libertarian socialist, but that is a different matter.

[PoliticalNightmare]

i don't quite agree with you here. Libertarian socialism is anti-state. Period. This means a libertarian society is one where there is no state.

There may be different strategies for changing society that been proposed by people who could be plausibly referred to as libertarian socialist, but that is a different matter.

Hmm...well I generally saw the word "libertarian" as being a believer in freedom of thought and action. Clearly this can only be put into action by a reduced state (minarchism) or abolition of state (anarchism - well this term obviously means more than just no state but...). So I always saw the term "libertarian" as being one which specifies either minarchism or anarchism.

There are, definitely, less radical thinkers who don't particularly identify themselves nominally but could be considered to be part of the less radical school of libertarian socialism, e.g. David Ellerman, Carole Pateman, etc. I believe they may have at times said that anarchy was a good goal to have in mind but I'm fairly sure they both advocate less revolutionary means, aren't necessarily hostile to working with the state and don't necessarily see anarchy as an achievable goal - yet they share many libertarian and socialist ideals with anarchists.

I'm not trying to disagree with you, btw, just trying to get my head straight on this one. For instance, if the term "libertarianism" specified "no state" then why would a distinction be made between anarchism and libertarianism? Also the word has (unjustifiably, I know) been used by the right to describe a "small" government which enforces private property rights but does not intervene in the market.

[syndicat]

Hmm...well I generally saw the word "libertarian" as being a believer in freedom of thought and action. Clearly this can only be put into action by a reduced state (minarchism) or abolition of state (anarchism - well this term obviously means more than just no state but...). So I always saw the term "libertarian" as being one which specifies either minarchism or anarchism.


the word "libertarian" in "libertarian socialism" must not be confused with the right wing fake socalled "libertarians". for libertarian socialists, positive liberty is essential, that is, equal access to the means to develop your potential, and self-management, that is, control over the decisions that mainly affect you and equal access to the means to participate in collective decisions that mainly affect a group you are a part of. negative liberty...not having your personal self-management of your own life obstructed...is also a part of it.

the state and capital are both inconsistent with self-management. to put it another way, libertarian socialism is for a social arrangement that could be characterized as generalized self-management.

there are of course disagreements about the specifics.