Results of RevLeft Tendency Poll

[ComradeMan]

Tendency Votes %

1. Marxist 66 39.29%
2. Anarcho-communist 45 26.79%
3. Leninist 44 26.19%
4. Left-communist 30 17.86%
5. Trotskyist 29 17.26%
6. Anarcho-syndicalist 27 16.07%
7. Other- please specify 27 16.07%
8. Stalinist 20 11.90%
9. 21st Century Socialist 20 11.90%
10. Council Communist 17 10.12%
11. Not listed above 16 9.52%
12. Maoist 14 8.33%
13. Guevarist 12 7.14%
14. Luxemburgist 10 5.95%
15. Lib. Theo/Religious 10 5.95%
16. Castroist 8 4.76%
17. Titoist 7 4.17%
18. Social-democrat 6 3.57%
19. Hoxhaist 5 2.98%
20. Non-leftist position 3 1.79%

A few things that surprised me:-


Maoist was so low.
Leninist third after Anarcho-Communist
More Social Democrat than Hoxhaist
I wonder how much depends on members geopolitical situation- obviously a factor.

[RGacky3]

Heres the problem all Hoxists, trotskyists Maoists, Castroist, Guevarist titoists and stalinists are ALL Leninists .... So your really taking what should essencially be one or 2 things and splitting them up until of coarse they'll be tiny.

Also All of those, plus Luxembourgists, plus left communists, 21st century socialists, plus even some anarcho-communists, plus even some liberation theologists are Marxists to a degree.

Plus pretty much all anarcho-syndicalists are anarcho-communists, plus anyone here that has a religion that contributes to their morality (such as myself) might be considered liberation theologists.

I say we redo the poll, but think it through a little more and cut out a lot of the fat. Its a good idea but I think the hairs have been split so much its almost meaningless.

[Widerstand]

^the poll was multiple choice, so all Maoists most likely also voted Leninist.

Unless of course people were inable to understand what multiple choice means.

[hatzel]

Though of course we could still think about what might be better to do. I mean, there might have been some important tendencies that were excluded, at the expense of some less important tendencies. If anybody feels the urge to redo the poll, let's at least discuss here first what changes we propose. Which tendencies we'd add, which we'd merge together...that way, we can ensure that the most enlightening results for us are found. Rather than just relying on ComradeMan's authoritarian decision about which tendencies will be included :rolleyes:

[Thirsty Crow]

Twenty people self-identifying as Stalinist...well, although the sample size is small and confound to one internet forum, I think e could interpret it as an end to the myth of the Trotskyist "invention" of Stalinism.

[ComradeMan]

Though of course we could still think about what might be better to do. I mean, there might have been some important tendencies that were excluded, at the expense of some less important tendencies. If anybody feels the urge to redo the poll, let's at least discuss here first what changes we propose. Which tendencies we'd add, which we'd merge together...that way, we can ensure that the most enlightening results for us are found. Rather than just relying on ComradeMan's authoritarian decision about which tendencies will be included :rolleyes:

Well there are do-ers and criticisers in this world.

An ounce of action is worth a tonne of theory.

Don't worry, next time Beharism will be on there.....;)

LOL!!!

The tendency list was taken from Wiki.... LOL!!!!

[hatzel]

Yeah, I was a little surprised Stalinist was so high on the list...I guess Stalin's PR man has been working hard to dispel the 'myths' that he wasn't such a nice guy...

I promise I wasn't one of those 20, though. I went right off Stalin around the Doctors' Plot. Because the Holodomor wasn't quite bad enough for me to condemn him for...I heard the current Russian administration was just playing to bourgeois interests in declaring that one a genocide. Lies! Long live Stalin, down with Ukrainians...and doctors, send them all to Birobidzhan, it's a very nice totally useless patch of unworkable swamp land in the middle of nowhere...

The point being, I really want to know whether these 20 Stalinists consider Stalin to have been a Stalinist himself, or if they just say that all this shit was made up, or that it was just 'a necessary evil for the good of the revolution'...get them in here, I'm interested now! I can take people (fairly) saying that Stalin might not have been as bad as some people thought, but to make a point of identifying as a Stalinist? That I don't understand...

[RGacky3]

^the poll was multiple choice, so all Maoists most likely also voted Leninist.

Unless of course people were inable to understand what multiple choice means.


I missed that ...

[Thirsty Crow]

I promise I wasn't one of those 20, though.
I was. No, really.

[ComradeMan]

I was. No, really.

Not Titoist?

[Thirsty Crow]

Not Titoist?:tt2::tt2::tt2::tt2:
I am a proud local patriot (regional allegiance), and Tito was from another region, so...:tt2:
(okay, sorry for spamming, I'm done now)

[hatzel]

I was. No, really.

Then which of my interpretations will you go for? Or have I missed one out? I never was an expert on Stalinism :confused:

(By the way, I think I know geography, and if Tito was from a different region, Stalin was definitely from a different region :tt2:)

[ComradeMan]

:tt2::tt2::tt2::tt2:
I am a proud local patriot (regional allegiance), and Tito was from another region, so...:tt2:
(okay, sorry for spamming, I'm done now)

I see.....

So..........?

What's your serious opinion on Tito?

[Bud Struggle]

So after the Revolution are all you guys going to fight one another? :D

[ComradeMan]

Maoism pretty much kicked into the dust on this survey too.:lol:

[Thirsty Crow]

What's your serious opinion on Tito?
Quite frankly, I don't know enough to have a firm opinion on Tito.
What I do know is that people either tend to see him, in the mode of impotent nostalgia, as a benevolent political figure who provided the toiling masses with means to a decent life, or as an outright evil, anti-national figure responsible for the massacre at Bleiburg field.
I am also of the opinion that Yugoslav self-management was self-management only in name. In reality, it was highly probable that Party careerists were in charge.
Also, I think that private accumulation also happened.
I don't see his politics as deserving the tendency "Titoist". In my view, it is completely shallow and empty.

[revolution inaction]

what the fuck is a " 21st Century Socialist"?

[#FF0000]

what the fuck is a " 21st Century Socialist"?

What Hugo Chavez calls himself.

[ComradeMan]

what the fuck is a "21st Century Socialist"?

Basically 21st century Bolivarianism.


Have a look here


http://21stcenturysocialism.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/21st_century_socialism

[#FF0000]

Also All of those, plus Luxembourgists, plus left communists, 21st century socialists, plus even some anarcho-communists, plus even some liberation theologists are Marxists to a degree.

Some left-communists are leninists. I think a lot of left-communists like a good amount of what Lenin had to say actually.

[PigmerikanMao]

I voted Marxist, Leninist, Maoist, and Other, as the poll was multiple choice. If I was given only one option, I would have chosen Maoist as this is what I identify most closely to. I feel that a lot of people, if they had only one option, would have voted less for say, Marxist or Leninist, in lieu of a more specific term. More votes towards Marxism by both Maoists and non-Maoists means a lower percentage for the Maoist vote.

:closedeyes:

[#FF0000]

A lot of Maoists just don't post in this part of the forum. There are a good number of them on Revleft.

[Palingenisis]

A lot of Maoists just don't post in this part of the forum. There are a good number of them on Revleft.

I dont think there are a good number of us at all.

I think its just that we tend to be niosey.

[Ele'ill]

I'm disappointed that there isn't a way to list the 'other please specify' categories individually.

[ComradeMan]

A lot of Maoists just don't post in this part of the forum. There are a good number of them on Revleft.

Bad luck for them.

People had the oppurtunity to vote. The drop down menu shows the active posts... quite frankly if there aren't a lot of Maoist votes then there weren't a lot of Maoists voting.

[Palingenisis]

Maoism pretty much kicked into the dust on this survey too.:lol:

Im sure the millions of Maoist revolutionaries worldwide will be so upset by this great setback.

[ComradeMan]

Im sure the millions of Maoist revolutionaries worldwide will be so upset by this great setback.

So what?

Like you're one of them anyway.

Millions of Maoist revolutionaries? Just where?

I suppose the poor little Maoists are all going to complain about being hard done by now because they were humiliated at RevLeft on a poll.

Tough luck. The "people" of RevLeft have spoken.

Deal with it.

It's not our fault you've got a shit ideology.

When it comes to a Sino-Soviet split- well, hell, I'm with Moscow on this one.

[#FF0000]

I suppose the poor little Maoists are all going to complain about being hard done by now because they were humiliated at RevLeft on a poll.

No that is the opposite of what she is saying.


Millions of Maoist revolutionaries? Just where?

Nepal. India.

[Ele'ill]

I think it was sarcasm

[Widerstand]

A lot of Maoists just don't post in this part of the forum.

I think this needs changing.

[Palingenisis]

I think it was sarcasm

I think it was bloody obvious sarcasm. ;)

[ComradeMan]

No that is the opposite of what she is saying Nepal. India.

What's that like, 0.4% of the world?

Hmmm..... I'm sorry, but Maoists are in my experience at least, always self-righteous pains in the asses and also frighteningly like ideological automatons.

[Palingenisis]

What's that like, 0.4% of the world?



Besides Nepal and India there are large enough Maoist Parties in the Philipines, Turkey, Mexico, Bhutan and elsewhere. Compared to the rest of the left we are doing very well thank you very much.

[ComradeMan]

Besides Nepal and India there are large enough Maoist Parties in the Philipines, Turkey, Mexico, Bhutan and elsewhere. Compared to the rest of the left we are doing very well thank you very much.

Yeah sure.... "we" :laugh:

You're past your expiry date and in the sense of leftism you're reactionary with your discredited and outdated ideology.

The most revolutionary in Mexico are the Zapatistas, they actually do stuff too in a Mexican context.

There's an MLM party in Italy too.... LOL!!!!!! Most people don't know they exist.

[Ele'ill]

I'm sorry, but Maoists are in my experience at least,

What experience would that be?

[ComradeMan]

What experience would that be?


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/34/Pmlibanner.PNG (http://www.revleft.com/wiki/File:Pmlibanner.PNG)

Partito Marxista-Leninista Italiano

[Palingenisis]

What experience would that be?

Scrapping with us on Revleft....Im sure in real life he would steer very clear of such rough and dirty types.

[Ele'ill]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/34/Pmlibanner.PNG (http://www.revleft.com/wiki/File:Pmlibanner.PNG)

Partito Marxista-Leninista Italiano


Interesting, what do you do?

[scarletghoul]

LOL

I've heard many criticisms of Maoists before, but i've never heard anyone on the left criticise them for having a lack of influence in the world.. that's really strange.

[Widerstand]

Scrapping with us on Revleft....Im sure in real life he would steer very clear of such rough and dirty types.

Just look at those rough and dirty types in their cardboard armor:

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/u858NZb83_w/0.jpg

I'd be scared as well.

[Palingenisis]

Just look at those rough and dirty types in their cardboard armor:

I'd be scared as well.

The MLPD besides being one of the biggest if not the biggest organization on the Revolutionary Left is mainly made up of blue collar workers. They arent poseurs and people-haters like a lot of the rest of the German left.

[ComradeMan]

LOL

I've heard many criticisms of Maoists before, but i've never heard anyone on the left criticise them for having a lack of influence in the world.. that's really strange.

I didn't say they had a lack of influence, I just think it's a shit ideology and the Maoists I have met have been as I have described.

[#FF0000]

I don't like maoism.

can we keep the dumb baby arguments out of here tho

[hatzel]

More votes towards Marxism by both Maoists and non-Maoists means a lower percentage for the Maoist vote.

Technically this isn't true. I mean, the percentages add up to more than 100%, so it's not telling us the percentage of total votes which were 'Maoist', rather the percentage of voters who selected Maoist as one of their options. If anything, this system would increase the Maoist percentage, and others who may have chosen to refer to themselves as a Marxist or something on a one-vote poll may have chosen Marxist and Maoist...

Shame for the Maoists, though...

[Sosa]

I didn't notice it was multi-choice until after I voted. I would've voted Anarcho-communist and anarcho-syndicalist

[ComradeMan]

Technically this isn't true. I mean, the percentages add up to more than 100%, so it's not telling us the percentage of total votes which were 'Maoist', rather the percentage of voters who selected Maoist as one of their options. If anything, this system would increase the Maoist percentage, and others who may have chosen to refer to themselves as a Marxist or something on a one-vote poll may have chosen Marxist and Maoist...

Shame for the Maoists, though...


Thanks Rabbi K, mathematics beyond elementary school level.... :lol:

If anything, this system would increase the Maoist percentage,

They stood to "benefit" and they still complain! LOL!!!

[hatzel]

I didn't notice it was multi-choice until after I voted. I would've voted Anarcho-communist and anarcho-syndicalist

Okay, so I propose we redo all this. Come up with a set of 20 tendencies we can all agree on, and make sure everybody knows it's multiple choice. If we care enough about RevLeft's tendency breakdown to bother with all that effort...

[Widerstand]

The MLPD besides being one of the biggest if not the biggest organization on the Revolutionary Left is mainly made up of blue collar workers. They arent poseurs and people-haters like a lot of the rest of the German left.

The fact that you have absolutely no idea about the German left couldn't be better expressed.

The MLPD had 2.300 members in '08 and 2000 in '09. They reached 29.551 secondary votes (0.1%) in the 2009 German elections.

Some other numbers in relation: 1.600 (in 2009; 1800 in 2008) Trotskyists, split up over around 28 groups; 4.000 members of the DKP (in 2009; 4.200 in 2008) albeit with less votes (only 25.587); 1.100 members of the "Communist Platform" within DIE LINKE; roughly 6.600 (in 2009, 6.300 in 2008) Autonomists of various tendencies; the Anarchist FAU and the Autonomous-affine "interventionistische Linke" apparently don't keep membership numbers.

Source: 2009 report of the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution (http://fahnenflucht.blogsport.eu/files/2010/06/vsbericht2009.pdf)

[Palingenisis]

De Linke isnt part of the Revolutionary Left either is the DKP in all honesty...They are clearly bigger than the Trots and probably have more serious members than the anarchists.

[ComradeMan]

Partito Marxista-Leninista Italiano (Maoista).

In my opinion a bad joke that discredits the left, they were even supporting the Khmer Rouge only to denounce them later, along with Hoxha, whom they later denounced too. :lol:

The party is not represented in the Italian Parliament, the European Parliament, nor in any regional or provincial assemblies.

http://www.pmli.it/

http://www.pmli.it/images/manifommMao2010.gif

[Widerstand]

De Linke isnt part of the Revolutionary Left either is the DKP in all honesty...They are clearly bigger than the Trots and probably have more serious members than the anarchists.

The Communist Platform is a Marxist Leninist faction within Die Linke. I see no reason to count them out of the revolutionary left.

I wonder how you can judge the seriousness of their members? I haven't ever seen any MLPD action in real life, but I've seen plenty of Trots and Anarchists support labor struggles, education struggles, migrant struggles etc. Especially the FAU being a union.

I have also seen no indication that would make the MLPD any more or less revolutionary than the DKP, but I'm sure with your profound knowledge of the German political landscape you can easily point out how the MLPD is more revolutionary?

[Palingenisis]

Partito Marxista-Leninista Italiano (Maoista).

In my opinion a bad joke that discredits the left, they were even supporting the Khmer Rouge only to denounce them later, along with Hoxha, whom they later denounced too. :lol:




I highly doubt they denounced Hoxha...Certainly he broke from the Maoists and Maoists criticize him which is different from denouncing.

Im glad you are so concerned about capitalist elections...Did it ever occur to you that part of the reason for the degeneration of the Second International and later the PCI was its participation in capitalist parliments and over concern with electioneering?

[Red Commissar]

Well, I suppose a lot of users give OI a wide berth and not post there often. I can say the same is for me because I don't have anything to contribute here that hasn't been said already.

I remember this poll but I don't think I voted because I'm not sure where I fit in beyond a "Marxist". I can't remember anything anyways, it's all a blur.

[ComradeMan]

The Communist Platform is a Marxist Leninist faction within Die Linke. I see no reason to count them out of the revolutionary left.

I wonder how you can judge the seriousness of their members? I haven't ever seen any MLPD action in real life, but I've seen plenty of Trots and Anarchists support labor struggles, education struggles, migrant struggles etc. Especially the FAU being a union.

I have also seen no indication that would make the MLPD any more or less revolutionary than the DKP, but I'm sure with your profound knowledge of the German political landscape you can easily point out how the MLPD is more revolutionary?


The PMLI hates Troskyists and their only revolutionary tactic seems to be asking people not to vote.

http://www.pmli.it/images/manifamministrative2009.gif




I highly doubt they denounced Hoxha...Certainly he broke from the Maoists and Maoists criticize him which is different from denouncing.

Im glad you are so concerned about capitalist elections...Did it ever occur to you that part of the reason for the degeneration of the Second International and later the PCI was its participation in capitalist parliments and over concern with electioneering?

From their website

Pienamente convinti che la via della salvezza dell'Albania non sta nel capitalismo da chiunque venga gestito ma solo nel socialismo, quello vero non certo nel pseudosocialismo dell'imbroglione trotzkista Enver Hoxha.

"the true one (socialism) not the pseudo-socialism of the trotksyist conman Enver Hoxha"

http://www.pmli.it/storiadelpmli.htm

Oops...

[Palingenisis]

The PMLI hates Troskyists and their only revolutionary tactic seems to be asking people not to vote.
.

Although we dont have the dogmatic attitude of Left Communists and Anarchists to capitalist elections....Well we accept that a lot of their criticisms of them are valid and so a lot of the time we do encourage people not to bother voting...I wonder have you ever considered why :confused:

[Palingenisis]

I have also seen no indication that would make the MLPD any more or less revolutionary than the DKP, but I'm sure with your profound knowledge of the German political landscape you can easily point out how the MLPD is more revolutionary?

What were issues behind the Sino-Soviet split? That might give a clue as to why the MLPD is more revolutionary...;)

And "Marxist-Leninist" platforms in Parties calling for immigration controls in the first world....:rolleyes:

[ComradeMan]

Although we dont have the dogmatic attitude of Left Communists and Anarchists to capitalist elections....Well we accept that a lot of their criticisms of them are valid and so a lot of the time we do encourage people not to bother voting...I wonder have you ever considered why :confused:

LOL!!!!!!!! Pitiful !!!

"the true one (socialism) not the pseudo-socialism of the trotksyist conman Enver Hoxha"

You don't know what you're talking about.... LOL!!!:laugh: You were wrong about the German situation and you were wrong about the Italian one.

You are supposed to be a Maoist? How can you not know what your Maoist comrades are up to around the world?

But I suppose it's easy to posture on distant issues like Nepal, or Pol Pot etc...

It seems the Maoist circus has come to town and the revolutionary clowns are dancing for us...:lol:

[Palingenisis]

I said I highly doubt which is different from I know for sure about their attitude to Hoxha (which is one I disagree with)...However I dont highly doubt at this stage that you are an asshole, Im pretty certain of the fact.

[Widerstand]

What were issues behind the Sino-Soviet split? That might give a clue as to why the MLPD is more revolutionary...;)

I'm asking you how the current MLPD's activities are any more revolutionary than the DKP's activities. Can you give a direct answer to that - yes or no?



And "Marxist-Leninist" platforms in Parties calling for immigration controls in the first world....:rolleyes:

I don't support Die Linke or participation in it by any means, but the point stands that all in all, the various leftist factions in Die Linke (of which the Communist Platform is merely the largest) are just as big if not bigger than the MLPD.

[Palingenisis]

But I suppose it's easy to posture on distant issues like Nepal, or Pol Pot etc...



I dont uphold Pol Pot as you should well know.

Also I came to Maoism through trying to figure out where Left-Republicanism in Ireland had gone wrong and also through looking for a working class alternative to trendy feminism....Issues very close to hand.

[ComradeMan]

I said I highly doubt which is different from I know for sure about their attitude to Hoxha (which is one I disagree with)...However I dont highly doubt at this stage that you are an asshole, Im pretty certain of the fact.

You highly doubted something yet you didn't even know about it? :blushing:

Bit like the Zimbabwe thread too.

I don't highly doubt at this stage that you are a moron.

If you call yourself a Maoist then you'd better be aware of what the Maoist parties say and do. But you aren't.

Oops....:blushing:

[Palingenisis]

I'm asking you how the current MLPD's activities are any more revolutionary than the DKP's activities. Can you give a direct answer to that - yes or no?
.

The DKP is not to be trusted because of their support for post-Stalin Soviet ideas such as peaceful co-existence with Imperialism, parlimentary roads to Socialism, "market socialism" and other revisions of Marxism in the past...Have they gone back on all that? And if they are really serious about going back on all that why havent they joined the MLPD which has always had a firm line against such things?

[Palingenisis]

I don't support Die Linke or participation in it by any means, but the point stands that all in all, the various leftist factions in Die Linke (of which the Communist Platform is merely the largest) are just as big if not bigger than the MLPD.

They maybe Leftist but they are part of a non-revolutionary party that advocates a tighter immigration policy in a first world country.

[Widerstand]

The DKP is not to be trusted because of their support for post-Stalin Soviet ideas such as peaceful co-existence with Imperialism, parlimentary roads to Socialism, "market socialism" and other revisions of Marxism in the past...Have they gone back on all that? And if they are really serious about going back on all that why havent they joined the MLPD which has always had a firm line against such things?

So you are criticizing them for adopting stances similar to reformism/social democracy when the MLPD, although officially denouncing it, participates in electoral politics, too?

[Palingenisis]

So you are criticizing them for adopting stances similar to reformism/social democracy when the MLPD, although officially denouncing it, participates in electoral politics, too?

There is a difference between participating in capitalist elections and parliments in order to expose them and bring them thumbling to the ground in the words of Seamus Costello and advocating a Parlimentary road to Socialism which is what De Linke does.

[Ovi]

You forgot anarchist and libertarian socialist. Since you can't just add the votes up, you don't know how it compares to the rest.

[Widerstand]

They maybe Leftist but they are part of a non-revolutionary party that advocates a tighter immigration policy in a first world country.

Yes and? The leftist minory factions are mostly in disagreement with Die Linkes social democratic majority.

Besides, the MLPD is a non-revolutionary party too. Can you give me examples of them doing anything besides selling Der Rebell and having electoral campaigns? Preferably something that could be paraphrased as "revolutionary action?"

[Widerstand]

There is a difference between participating in capitalist elections and parliments in order to expose them and bring them thumbling to the ground

Again, where does the MLPD do any of this?

[Sosa]

Libertarian Socialist will include: all 4 major streams of social anarchism (anarcho-comm, anarcho-syndicalist, collectivists, mutualists), situationists, left-communists, council communists, automatists.

That might be too broad of a category

[#FF0000]

Left-Communists don't consider themselves to be "Libertarian Socialists"

[Palingenisis]

Again, where does the MLPD do any of this?

The Revolutionary Left is pretty weak across the whole of western Europe apart from maybe Greece as you well know...The MLPD has to work within the material conditions it has infront of it. You think by letting off a few bombs in a situation that is obviously not revolutionary that they would be prove themselves as revolutionary?

[Sosa]

Left-Communists don't consider themselves to be "Libertarian Socialists"

I wasn't aware of that. I just took it from wikipedia that listed that tendency under the Libertarian Socialist umbrella

[#FF0000]

I wasn't aware of that. I just took it from wikipedia that listed that tendency under the Libertarian Socialist umbrella

Well some people take "Libertarian Socialist" to mean "Not fans of Stalin but don't like Trotsky either", so.

[Widerstand]

The Revolutionary Left is pretty weak across the whole of western Europe apart from maybe Greece as you well know...The MLPD has to work within the material conditions it has infront of it. You think by letting off a few bombs in a situation that is obviously not revolutionary that they would be prove themselves as revolutionary?

So you're not criticizing the MLPD even though they're doing the exact same as the two other parties you criticized, because of "material conditions?" Do these material conditions not apply to the DKP and Die Linke? Do they not apply to the Anarchists (mostly the FAU) and the Autonomists? If they do, how come the latter two are engaged in a variety of struggles, such as organizing anti-imperialist/anti-globalization protests (Avanti/iL at the G8 summit Heiligendamm, the NATO summit in Straßbourg and the Climate summit in Copenhagen) and anti-fa protests and blockades, intervening in racist activities such as the Anti-Islam congress in Cologne and (trying to) blocking deportations of asylum seekers, amongst other things such as informational campaigns, direct action, civil unrest and union work (FAU mostly), etc., while the MLPD rather just stands by and maybe has two or three people selling newspapers when there are protests?

[ComradeMan]

The Revolutionary Left is pretty weak across the whole of western Europe apart from maybe Greece as you well know...The MLPD has to work within the material conditions it has infront of it.

LOL!!! I don't think the PMLI (Italian Maoists) would agree with that attitude... but then they don't seem to agree with anyone. :lol:

Widerstand makes a good point too, and it sounds all too familiar. Just spewing out hot air and going round in revolutionary self-righteousness whilst telling people not to vote- yeah, really revolutionary.

[ComradeMan]

I dont uphold Pol Pot as you should well know.

Also I came to Maoism through trying to figure out where Left-Republicanism in Ireland had gone wrong and also through looking for a working class alternative to trendy feminism....Issues very close to hand.

Well you took a wrong turn up the Ho Chi Minh trail.
:lol:

Why do you need to "find" an ideology either? You know what you believe. Find what corresponds to your belief and see...

[mosfeld]

Could mods please close this thread since it's just a troll thread for ComradeMan?

[ComradeMan]

Could mods please close this thread since it's just a troll thread for ComradeMan?

Boo hoo.... Maoists come on the thread, complaining about some weird thing or other when actually the statistics favoured them somewhat by an accident of mathematics, they then get their asses kicked in debate and then it's a troll thread. You call yourselves revolutionaries.....:lol:

FAIL!!!

Now, onto the anarchist issues.

On a theoretical future poll---- which forms of anarchism should be mentioned, or should it just state anarchism...?

[hatzel]

On a theoretical future poll---- which forms of anarchism should be mentioned, or should it just state anarchism...?

If we're going to do that, we'd might as well just ask "communist, anarchist or other?"...that is to say, I don't think that the anarchists here would be at all happy with that. I might request anarcho-pacifist being included, though, it might be interesting to see how popular that one is...

[Ele'ill]

If we're going to do that, we'd might as well just ask "communist, anarchist or other?"...that is to say, I don't think that the anarchists here would be at all happy with that. I might request anarcho-pacifist being included, though, it might be interesting to see how popular that one is...

Why wouldn't I be happy with 'communist, anarchist or other?"

[Widerstand]

Why wouldn't I be happy with 'communist, anarchist or other?"

I wouldn't.

[Palingenisis]

Boo hoo.... Maoists come on the thread, complaining about some weird thing or other when actually the statistics favoured them somewhat by an accident of mathematics, they then get their asses kicked in debate and then it's a troll thread. You call yourselves revolutionaries.....

Maoists dont give a fuck about your little poll...Anymore than Im sure Anarchists or Hoxhaists would...Please try to understand that.

[hatzel]

EDIT: @ Mari3L

Well, it wouldn't be as enlightening a poll as it could be. Of course we might be happy with it, but I don't think it's a progression to go from this wide range of options to something as simple as just merging all of anarchism into one thing. The previous one was already unfairly geared towards the many variations of communism over anarchism in any case, so I'd suggest sacrificing some of the communist ideologies (dare I say Castroist and Guevarist, for instance) to be replaced with more shades of anarchism...

[ComradeMan]

Maoists dont give a fuck about your little poll...Anymore than Im sure Anarchists or Hoxhaists would...Please try to understand that.

The ones here seem to. :lol:... all three of them! LOL!!!



Well, it wouldn't be as enlightening a poll as it could be. Of course we might be happy with it, but I don't think it's a progression to go from this wide range of options to something as simple as just merging all of anarchism into one thing. The previous one was already unfairly geared towards the many variations of communism over anarchism in any case, so I'd suggest sacrificing some of the communist ideologies (dare I say Castroist and Guevarist, for instance) to be replaced with more shades of anarchism...

Well three options, communist, anarchist or other wouldn't be very interesting would it? Seeing as anarchists are also in a sense communists it's problematic.

Castroist should stay because it's actually still relevant unlike some other tendencies I could mention, but still.

Guevarist stays. No discussion! LOL!!! ;)

I see what you mean!

Bear in mind there are only 20 poll options, the original list I had was 47 if I remember correctly.

[Palingenisis]

The ones here seem to. :lol:

No we are defending Maoism in case if we didnt someone might be taken in by the crap.

[Widerstand]

No we are defending Maoism in case if we didnt someone might be taken in by the crap.

You're not really defending anything, but rather attacking every non-Maoist leftist and making insupportable claims about the situation in countries you have no idea of.

[ComradeMan]

No we are defending Maoism in case if we didnt someone might be taken in by the crap.

Defending Maoism even though you don't have a clue about Maoist parties? Widerstand showed you up on the German situation and you were just blatantly wrong about the Italian situation- but you're defending Maoism, I see- despite not having a clue!!!

Ideological automaton.

[Palingenisis]

So you're not criticizing the MLPD even though they're doing the exact same as the two other parties you criticized, because of "material conditions?

The MLPD though are clear that there is NO parlimentary road to socialism.

Also I dont regard your reports on them as reliable.

[Widerstand]

Also I dont regard your reports on them as reliable.

Because you, unlike I, actually deal with them on a daily basis? No, to be fair, I don't, because, well, they don't really exist in any networks, initiatives or other forms of working class, precarious, anti-fa or academic organization I'm involved in.

[ComradeMan]

Because you, unlike I, actually deal with them on a daily basis? No, to be fair, I don't, because, well, they don't really exist in any networks, initiatives or other forms of working class, precarious, anti-fa or academic organization I'm involved in.

Sounds a bit like PMLI to me... just an opinion though. ;)

[revolution inaction]

Im sure the millions of Maoist revolutionaries worldwide will be so upset by this great setback.

"maoist revolutionaries"? thats kind of a contradiction :confused: which is it?

[Spawn of Stalin]

This whole poll thing was just a charade to give comrademan et al an excuse to troll the shit out of the maoists.

Exhibit A:

Defending Maoism even though you don't have a clue about Maoist parties? Widerstand showed you up on the German situation and you were just blatantly wrong about the Italian situation- but you're defending Maoism, I see- despite not having a clue!!!

Ideological automaton.
A troll post.

Exhibit B:

"maoist revolutionaries"? thats kind of a contradiction :confused: which is it?
A decidedly poor troll post

Like I said before, poll was fuckin rigged, no option for ML.

And guys, please stop trolling the poor little Maoists.

[ComradeMan]

This whole poll thing was just a charade to give comrademan an excuse to troll the shit out of the maoists.

Exhibit A:

A troll post.

Like I said before, poll was fuckin rigged, no option for ML.

Is mutli-choice vote a hard concept for you dickbrain?

How can it be rigged. LOL!!! Yeah, I got Bud to pay people to vote for Marxism...

Please....

[Widerstand]

This whole poll thing was just a charade to give comrademan et al an excuse to troll the shit out of the maoists.

[...]

And guys, please stop trolling the poor little Maoists.

Not sure if serious or trolling Maoists :confused:

[Palingenisis]

Not sure if serious or trolling Maoists :confused:

Is sarcasm something beyond you all? :confused:

[Widerstand]

Is sarcasm something beyond you all? :confused:

Not sure if serious or trolling Widerstand :confused:

[Ele'ill]

If we're going to do that, we'd might as well just ask "communist, anarchist or other?"...that is to say, I don't think that the anarchists here would be at all happy with that. I might request anarcho-pacifist being included, though, it might be interesting to see how popular that one is...

I guess I don't think it's that big of a deal. If a poll asked 'anarchist, communist, etc..' I would identify as anarchist but would post anything else about my personal beliefs, such as tactics and approach that wasn't offered as an option.

For statistic gathering and recording purposes it's important but for entertainment and 'on the fly' polling I don't think it matters much.

[Palingenisis]

Not sure if serious or trolling Wiederstand :confused:

Both serious and trolling Widerstand. :)

[Ovi]

On a theoretical future poll---- which forms of anarchism should be mentioned, or should it just state anarchism...?
Whatever we want to see. Anarcho-syndicalist, anarcho-communist, anarchist and libertarian socialist are a must though.

[Widerstand]

Both serious and trolling Widerstand. :)

fuck I can't even spell my own nick >_>

[ComradeMan]

Whatever we want to see. Anarcho-syndicalist, anarcho-communist, anarchist and libertarian socialist are a must though.

Okay, I agree.

The problem with the word "libertarian" is it seems to mean many different things to many different people.

:confused:

[hatzel]

And I've already explicitly requested anarcho-pacifist...though I guess if there's no space, I'll just kick up my own thread about anarcho-pacifism, to see what kind of support we're getting for it...

But we're right in saying that libertarian socialist is a bit of a slippery slope. I mean, surely anarcho-communism is a libertarian socialist ideology? So really it just comes down to who decides to self-identify as libsoc (which, I admit, I would do), and who doesn't. It doesn't necessarily add anything to a poll of what tendencies we have, just how we would call those tendencies...

[#FF0000]

And I've already explicitly requested anarcho-pacifist...though I guess if there's no space, I'll just kick up my own thread about anarcho-pacifism, to see what kind of support we're getting for it...

Almost none, around here.

[hatzel]

Almost none, around here.

:(

On the plus side, it might be a good ego-boost for the Maoists. It's always good to know there's one more tendency less popular than your own...