Did you know the U.S. is already Marxist???

[NewSocialist]

It's true! According to the latest piece of conservative propaganda churned out ["Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America"] we've been "cultural Marxists" since the sixties! Disband your organizations, stop the protests, we've already won!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdNZpKBZf4c
Lol! Glenn Beck couldn't have even made a movie this out there. :laugh:

Seriously, I think an actual Marxist needs to write a lengthy review of this shit to explain to people who may watch it how ridiculous it is.

[Red Commissar]

Beck isn't the first one to use the whole "Cultural Marxism" angle, it always pops up when people try to find an excuse to justify the whole "Communists are working within the government and social institutions to make Americans accept Communism" type deal. It's a big scary word that not many people know much about, so it's perfect to throw around aimlessly like "socialist" or "political correctness" (for comparison, our excessive usage of "reactionary" or "fascist').

You can find it being spammed pretty much any time in the past 30 years.

[ZeroNowhere]

Well, that makes things easier, then.

[9]

i don't understand why so many posters on here have such raging hard-ons for rightwing american pundits and the boring generic things they say.

[NewSocialist]

i don't understand why so many posters on here have such raging hard-ons for rightwing american pundits and the boring generic things they say.

Right-wing pundits, at least in the U.S., are very influential among large portions of the working class--that's why. So when you have a concentrated effort to mislead working people about what Marxism and socialism are, it's important to counter their claims if you want to ensure those lies don't gain any traction.

[greenwarbler]

My stepdad reads Beck et alia, but who cares what HE thinks?

[ZeroNowhere]

For reference:
But here’s the problem: Most Americans don’t watch or pay attention to cable television. In even a good news night, about five million people take a seat on the cable wars, which is less than 2 percent of all Americans. People are scared of what they see in their pay envelopes and neighborhoods, not because of what Keith Olbermann (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/o/keith_olbermann/index.html?inline=nyt-per) said last night or how Bill O’Reilly (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/o/bill_oreilly/index.html?inline=nyt-per) came back at him.

[Devrim]

i don't understand why so many posters on here have such raging hard-ons for rightwing american pundits and the boring generic things they say.Right-wing pundits, at least in the U.S., are very influential among large portions of the American working class--that's why. So when you have a concentrated effort to mislead working people about what Marxism and socialism are, it's important to counter their claims if you want to ensure those lies don't gain any traction.

I agree with '9' totally here. I think it also reflects a misunderstanding of what the role of today's tiny revolutionary organisations is. It is not a question about small groups of people trying to outcompete the mass media, and "counter their claims" on their terms. This is a battle that will invariably be lost. Instead it is a question of involvement and intervention where people are in struggle.

Devrim

[Lt. Ferret]

i got better things to do than think that the bullshit they spew matters. i also post on the sean hannity forums and theyre so stupid and misled that i cannot even consider them a threat.

[RGacky3]

i also post on the sean hannity forums and theyre so stupid and misled that i cannot even consider them a threat.

Except those are the people corporations fund.

[Lt. Ferret]

boo hoo, theyre still stupid and anyone with half a brain can discount millions of dollars of corporate donations.

[RGacky3]

Did you know that Sarah palin was almost vice president? Idiots with power are dangerous.

[Devrim]

Did you know that Sarah palin was almost vice president? Idiots with power are dangerous.

Why would Sarah Palin be any more dangerous than any other Vice President?

Devrim

[ZeroNowhere]

Did you know that Sarah palin was almost vice president? Idiots with power are dangerous.
Did you know that Barack Obama is President?

[Lt. Ferret]

yeah and sarah palin being almost vice president sunk the republican campaign single handedly.

[RGacky3]

I'd much rather have an intelligent person in power than an idiot, Obama is a anbashed corporatist and so on, but having someone who's an idiot, like Bush, kills people.



yeah and sarah palin being almost vice president sunk the republican campaign single handedly.


I would'nt say that.


Why would Sarah Palin be any more dangerous than any other Vice President?

Devrim

Because she's insane ....

Both Castro and Kim Ill are dictators, but I would much much much much rather live under Castro, because Kim is insane, and Castro is reasonable.

[ComradeMan]

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
:scared:

OMG they were communists, they used the phrase "we the People" they talk about common defence and "general Welfare" OMG OMG they were communists!!!

LOL!!!

[NewSocialist]

For reference:

That fails to take into consideration the millions of Americans who tune into right-wing radio shows, read news papers and magazines with a right-wing bias, or listen to conservative conspiracy theorists like Alex Jones.

Something like 60% of Americans don't vote, many of the ones who do are strongly influenced by media bias. In the case of Marxism and socialism, countless people will watch documentaries like these or hear Glenn Beck equate socialism with genocide and will never look into the philosophy again. The ones who do won't find any answers from us because, apparently, we're too good to counter reactionary lies "on their terms."

[Kayser_Soso]

"Cultural Marxism" was invented by old anti-Communists who had trouble explaining why their allegedly "Communist-dominated" America was continually pursuing pro-capitalist policies, and increasingly privatizing everything it could. Sooner or later some of the followers who ask something like, "Wait a minute, if we are being taken over by Communists, how do you explain all this privatization, the tax cuts, etc."

If you don't believe me try bracing some of these idiot right-wingers on blogs who claim America is "Marxist"(preferably racialists, as nowadays lots of yahoos are calling America Marxist), pointing out that America's policies have been increasingly oriented toward the free market. If you got the right lolcow, he or sh...no, sorry, he will proceed explain that while America is indeed capitalist economically, it has been dominated for some time by "cultural Marxism". Ask them to explain what this is and they will usually disappear. Occasionally they will claim it is "the economic ideas of Karl Marx applied to culture." Then ask them which economic theories they mean, and again, they will disappear.

[Devrim]

That fails to take into consideration the millions of Americans who tune into right-wing radio shows, read news papers and magazines with a right-wing bias, or listen to conservative conspiracy theorists like Alex Jones.

Something like 60% of Americans don't vote, many of the ones who do are strongly influenced by media bias. In the case of Marxism and socialism, countless people will watch documentaries like these or hear Glenn Beck equate socialism with genocide and will never look into the philosophy again. The ones who do won't find any answers from us because, apparently, we're too good to counter reactionary lies "on their terms."

It is not a question of being "too good" to do it. To put it quite simply tiny revolutionary groups don't have the ability to compete with the mass media on its own terms.

The task of revolutionaries is too take part in struggles where people are already beginning to question the dominant ideology, and are looking for different ways to understand the world. Class consciousness is something that develops through collective struggle, not from the media produced by tiny groups of people trying to out compete huge corporations in the market place.


Because she's insane ....

Both Castro and Kim Ill are dictators, but I would much much much much rather live under Castro, because Kim is insane, and Castro is reasonable.

I don't think there is any real reason to think that Kim is actually insane. He defends his own interests and those of his class.

Palin like any US Vice_President would end up defending the interests of the US bourgeoisie.

Devrim

[redz]

Right-wing pundits, at least in the U.S., are very influential among large portions of the American working class--that's why. So when you have a concentrated effort to mislead working people about what Marxism and socialism are, it's important to counter their claims if you want to ensure those lies don't gain any traction.


Yes - the airwaves are virtually dominated by the rightwing propaganda of these "pundits", particularly through the auspices of far-right megabillionaire corporate empires like those of Murdoch and FreeChannel.

The USA is the most powerful major industrialized country without a labor-based party on the left - there's the Dems (moderate-right) and Republicans (whackjob extreme-right) ... and both are edging further rightward.

The trade union and "progressive" leaderships have consistently sought to tie the working class and "progressive" left to the Democratic Party ... whose bankruptcy, and dedication to the top wealthiest interests, has now been shown more than ever. If Obama and the Dems are "Marxists", they must be rallying behind the "Plutocratic People's Republic of Wall Street".

Obscenely, it's been the whack-job right wing - led and funded by powerful corporate interests behind the Tea Party movement - that has channelled popular anger and outrage against the huge giveaways to Wall Street and giant corporations ... into support for the political representatives of Wall Street and giant corporations. Meanwhile, labor and the "respectable" left in this country are split, either trying to apologize for Obama and the Dems, or befuddled about what to do.

Meanwhile, the relentless blast from the far right - the "pundits" - goes on, gets louder and stronger. I agree that the revolutionary left needs to make an effort "to counter their claims" and try to "ensure those lies don't gain any traction" - but the most import struggle lies WITHIN the trade unions and "progressive" left groups and movements, to coalesce real and revolutionary opposition to the current craven, sell-out leaderships, and forge a party of the working class with a revolutionary program.

Redz

[trivas7]

Both Castro and Kim Ill are dictators, but I would much much much much rather live under Castro, because Kim is insane, and Castro is reasonable.
It's refreshing to hear someone here admit that they'd be happy to live under a dictatorship.

[La Comédie Noire]

i don't understand why so many posters on here have such raging hard-ons for rightwing american pundits and the boring generic things they say.

Spot on! To be perfectly honest I've never watched his show. The American media isn't to be taken serious.

[RGacky3]

Trivas7, do I have to explain this, aparently I do, a goddamn 5 year old would understand my logic, but aparently your missing that part of the brain.

IF I HAD TO CHOOSE, I WOULD RATHER LIVE IN CUBA (run by a reasonable person) THAN NORTH KOREA (run by a lunatic).

What does this have to do with this argument? Because its a parralell to my statement

I WOULD RATHER HAVE A REASONABLE PERSON RUN THE GOVERNMENT THAN A LUNATIC.

Trivas I cannot understand how you managed to learn how to use a computer given you can't understand a simple piece of logic.

[ComradeMan]

IF I HAD TO CHOOSE, I WOULD RATHER LIVE IN CUBA (run by a reasonable person) THAN NORTH KOREA (run by a lunatic)..

Are you attacking Fidel?

[Bud Struggle]

Spot on! To be perfectly honest I've never watched his show. The American media isn't to be taken serious.

Well it is watched by a lot of people--and a lot of those people vote so there is a consequence to all of this Right Wing propaganda.

[Nolan]

It's refreshing to hear someone here admit that they'd be happy to live under a dictatorship.

Hey trivas7, what do you and Moscow have in common?

[redSHARP]

We won!!! yay!!!...though i dont feel like we won....

[#FF0000]

We won!!! yay!!!...though i dont feel like we won....

*reads foreclosure notice on door because bank of america upped my mortgage payment per month after we refinanced when family lost main source of income for a year*

Yeah tell me about it.

[Bud Struggle]

*reads foreclosure notice on door because bank of america upped my mortgage payment per month after we refinanced when family lost main source of income for a year*

Yeah tell me about it.

There's a place I agree with you guys. BoA got bailed out of their financial mess so they could still be around to capitalize on your financial mess. That's not quite fair. And your forclosed house is going to do exactly what the stimulus was supposed to do. It and thousand like it will be a drag on the market.

The bank will either sell of that house at a loss take a hit on it's bottowm line or keep the house on its books as a worthless "asset" that doesn't produce anything. And you go somewhere else to live. Either way it makes the bannks unstable--and ready to fall again.

They should cut their (and our) losses and make a deal with you so that you can pay something and still keep ownership of the house.

All these forclosed houses on the market are no good for anyone.

[ComradeMan]

What is the crime of robbing a bank compared with the crime of founding one?
Bertolt Brecht.

[#FF0000]

What is the crime of robbing a bank compared with the crime of founding one?
Bertolt Brecht.

Bertolt Brecht fucking owns.


They should cut their (and our) losses and make a deal with you so that you can pay something and still keep ownership of the house.

All these forclosed houses on the market are no good for anyone.


That's actually what we keep telling them. "We want this house, and you guys definitely don't."

But, what can I say, the area I live in/around is awful. Absurd foreclosure rates, corruption literally everywhere from the folks that build the houses to the guys they pay to appraise them too high to the folks in local government to the guys at the courthouse who took money from juvie centers to send kids there on any charge they could.

I'm kind of bitter.

[RGacky3]

There's a place I agree with you guys. BoA got bailed out of their financial mess so they could still be around to capitalize on your financial mess. That's not quite fair. And your forclosed house is going to do exactly what the stimulus was supposed to do. It and thousand like it will be a drag on the market.

The bank will either sell of that house at a loss take a hit on it's bottowm line or keep the house on its books as a worthless "asset" that doesn't produce anything. And you go somewhere else to live. Either way it makes the bannks unstable--and ready to fall again.

They should cut their (and our) losses and make a deal with you so that you can pay something and still keep ownership of the house.

All these forclosed houses on the market are no good for anyone.

They are good for executives that can make a quarterly profits for a couple years and give themselves HUGE bonuses. Because guess what just happened, every house the bank takes, their assets go up in the short term quickly, EVEN IF eventually they could be paid of, in the short term its profitable to take the house right now, thats why they do it.

Also if they have hedged against the mortgage thatns double money coming in, now your right, its eventually gonna collapse the system again, but the people making these desicions don't care because they are gonna make a killing.

Bud this is how Capitalism works, its not rational.

[RGacky3]

Pro-Market propertarians have this dreamlike idea of capitalism being euntreprenoirs starting mom and pop companies building it up over years and handing it down to their children.

Thats not the way Capitalism works, its Giant corporations that are capitalized my stockholders who are SPECULATING on the corporatinos, and run by people who usually also are on the boards of other corporations and have their investment elsewhere, and people who's job is to raise the quarterly profits for the speculators and to get as much out of the company as possible.

Even start up companies usualy end up like that, with more money able to be made by driving up the stock price, selling it off, and giving yourself a giant bonus.

The mom and pop stores don't run Capitalism, these people do.

[Revolution starts with U]

Only to a socialist is capitalism a historical phenomena. TO a capitalist, it is just an idea. :rolleyes:

[L.A.P.]

The Frankfurt School, plotted the corruption and overthrow of non-Communist nations by systematically undermining their cultures. Called Cultural Marxism, its goal is the use of art, music, education, and media to condition people to accept the essential elements of Marxism without identifying them as such.

Frankfurt School? Really? Out of all the revolutionaries you could have chosen you chose these lame reformists? These people created social democracy and I think that goes to show how much of a "threat" they were.

[Misanthrope]

It's refreshing to hear someone here admit that they'd be happy to live under a dictatorship.

Dictatorship is a meaningless word.

[Thirsty Crow]

Frankfurt School? Really? Out of all the revolutionaries you could have chosen you chose these lame reformists? These people created social democracy and I think that goes to show how much of a "threat" they were.

The Frankfurt School created social democracy?
What are you on?

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

If you liked this film, you'll get a kick out of AGENDA: GRINDING AMERICA DOWN.
I'm thinking of remixing it into hilarious communist propaganda, because some of what they say is unintentionally brilliant.

[ComradeMan]

Dictatorship is a meaningless word.

Until you live in one.

[Misanthrope]

Until you live in one.

Oh but I am living in one, the dictatorship of the capitalist class.

[ComradeMan]

Oh but I am living in one, the dictatorship of the capitalist class.

So would you prefer the dictatorship of the proletariat?

[Misanthrope]

So would you prefer the dictatorship of the proletariat?

Yes because I oppose the financial exploitation of the working class and would like to see a classless society that functions on democratic principles.