Bernie Sanders is filibustering Obama's tax cuts for the wealthy

[Martin Blank]

On C-SPAN (TV and radio) now. It's an old-school filibuster, like you see in Mr. Smith Goes to Washington. May not be revolutionary, but it is fascinating.

[Ztrain]

My favorite senator...the only one who gives me faith in represenative politics!

[ellipsis]

Make me proud Bernie! make all we Vermonters proud!

Edit: can't find it on Cspan.com although it mentions it in ticker below.

[Sosa]

it's on C-Span2

[ellipsis]

OK now hes on. i was watching Cspan2 but for some reason, he just got started, so maybe west coast feed is different or something...

Edit: i have no idea whats going on hes talking to the senator from Louisiana.

Edit: OK i guess you can invite people to talk during a filibuster.

[RadioRaheem84]

Sanders is awesome!

[RedScare]

Parliamentary obstructionism works in the favor of something progressive, for once.

[Martin Blank]

Edit: OK i guess you can invite people to talk during a filibuster.

Yes, it's called a colloquy, when one Senator invites another to engage in direct dialogue and discussion on a specific issue.

[CleverTitle]

Once again, Bernie Sanders proves that he's as good as it gets on the senate.

[Crux]

Credit where credit is due.

[ZeroNowhere]

I don't think it's really much of a working class issue, tbh.

[Red Commissar]

According to the prompt he as, the filibuster started at 10:25 am (eastern), and it is now 4:00 pm eastern as of this post. Nearing six hours now by that standard.

Weren't some Tea Bagger Republicans pledging to do the filibuster? I honestly didn't see Sanders doing it.

[KurtFF8]

I don't think it's really much of a working class issue, tbh.

Fighting extending tax cuts for the wealthy while the working class faces austerity measures? How is that not a working class issue?

His opposition to the cuts is based on his opposition to the attacks on working class families.

[wunderbar]

He's in his 9th hour now, this country needs more people like Bernie Sanders.

[Red Commissar]

He went a sum total of about 8 and a half hours before stopping. I guess it was interesting for what it's worth.

[The Red Next Door]

He still a damn reformist, don't get to happy.

[KurtFF8]

He still a damn reformist, don't get to happy.

A reformist who is trying to block a specific piece of legislation that would benefit the capitalist class quite a bit. This particular move by Sanders ought to be supported by the Left, reformist or not.

Lots of trade unions engage in "reformist activities" like asking for better working conditions or pay raises, and I don't see anyone (take Third Worldists perhaps) come out against those struggles.

[Red Commissar]

It seems he took up the entire session- the vote is pushed to Monday.

[Lobotomy]

I don't think it's really much of a working class issue, tbh.

Why? The working class will end up paying for the growing national debt in one way or another. Ending the Bush tax cuts could potentially take $3.7 trillion dollars off the top of the debt over a ten year period.

[The Red Next Door]

A reformist who is trying to block a specific piece of legislation that would benefit the capitalist class quite a bit. This particular move by Sanders ought to be supported by the Left, reformist or not.

Lots of trade unions engage in "reformist activities" like asking for better working conditions or pay raises, and I don't see anyone (take Third Worldists perhaps) come out against those struggles.

I support his plan to block this piece of shit too; but don't get happy. AGAIN HE A DAMN REFORMIST.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

I think it's a sign of the low level of struggle in the United States that this is getting such attention and approval.

[KurtFF8]

I support his plan to block this piece of shit too; but don't get happy. AGAIN HE A DAMN REFORMIST.


Why not get happy about it? Tax cuts right now (or their extension rather) could do nothing but harm the working class.

[The Red Next Door]

Why not get happy about it? Tax cuts right now (or their extension rather) could do nothing but harm the working class.

Missing the point; just because he doing an action that we all approve; he still not one of us. plus he used the word middle class a bunch of times.
what about the poor class?

[Crux]

Missing the point; just because he doing an action that we all approve; he still not one of us. plus he used the word middle class a bunch of times.
what about the poor class?
Pretty sure he mentioned working families, unemployed and the poor too. But yeah, he's a reformist and only slightly independent of the Democrats. Still credit where credit is due.

[Ocean Seal]

Thank God we blocked this, even if it is only a symbolic triumph it shows that we are not rolling over to the bourgeoisie and their President. He might be a social Dem., but in America that's better than nothing.

[Impulse97]

It is on cspan.com but i cant post a link grrr.:hammersickle::trotski::hammersickle:

[Burn A Flag]

Missing the point; just because he doing an action that we all approve; he still not one of us. plus he used the word middle class a bunch of times.
what about the poor class?
No need to be anal about him being a reformist. I think we all realize that, but I would rather have a reformist than a Tea Partier in the US Senate any day. Wouldn't you?

Why would you not praise the work of someone who's doing a good thing just because he's not 100% in line with your views? If he were, he wouldn't have gotten elected to a representative position anyway.

[Red Commissar]

It is on cspan.com but i cant post a link grrr.:hammersickle::trotski::hammersickle:

Yeah, you are right. But I'm not sure why you'd want to listen to the whole thing.

http://www.c-span.org/Watch/Media/2010/12/10/HP/A/41779/Sen+Sanders+Held+a+Tax+Cut+Filibuster.aspx

http://www.c-span.org/Watch/Media/2010/12/10/HP/A/41780/Sen+Sanders+Held+a+Tax+Cut+Filibuster.aspx

http://www.c-span.org/Watch/Media/2010/12/10/HP/A/41739/Sen+Sanders+Held+a+Tax+Cut+Filibuster.aspx

[Martin Blank]

I think it's a sign of the low level of struggle in the United States that this is getting such attention and approval.

Agreed. To be completely honest, the only reason I posted this here is that most people have never actually seen this kind of filibuster take place in their lifetimes. The last time a Rule 22 filibuster was done in the U.S. Senate was 1964, when Strom Thurmond did it to try and stop the Civil Rights Act.

In many respects, calling what Senator Sanders did "historic" is only for the above reason and none other.

[Impulse97]

Many thanks kind sir for doing what I cannot.:hammersickle::trotski::hammersickle:

[Red Commissar]

Agreed. To be completely honest, the only reason I posted this here is that most people have never actually seen this kind of filibuster take place in their lifetimes. The last time a Rule 22 filibuster was done in the U.S. Senate was 1964, when Strom Thurmond did it to try and stop the Civil Rights Act.

In many respects, calling what Senator Sanders did "historic" is only for the above reason and none other.

Thurmond did it with the 1964 Civil Rights Act too? I'm only aware of the long one he did against the 1957 Civil Rights Act. But you are right, this would be the only such filibuster I've seen in my life time. I wouldn't have seen it had you not given a heads up about it.

[KurtFF8]

Missing the point; just because he doing an action that we all approve; he still not one of us. plus he used the word middle class a bunch of times.
what about the poor class?

I don't think that anyone here or of the socialist Left, that I've seen at least, has any illusions about Sanders.

[KurtFF8]

I think it's a sign of the low level of struggle in the United States that this is getting such attention and approval.

How so?

[Ocean Seal]

Missing the point; just because he doing an action that we all approve; he still not one of us. plus he used the word middle class a bunch of times.
what about the poor class?
Here in the United States you can't say "poor" or "working" class for the reason that no one and I repeat no one thinks that they belong to these classes. In an effort to defeat class consciousness what the capitalist did was they extended the term middle class all the way from the poorest who need food stamps to businessmen making ~5 million dollars a year. So effectively there is only one class and that is the middle class. Any mention of the term working class is starting up class warfare which is a term that FOX news repeats over and over again without defining. That makes the term "working class" or socialism a nuclear term which the people will react negatively to. That's why Sanders has to say middle class. It true, its not perfect, but thats why we have the revolutionary left. We need to campaign against all forms of capitalism, but we need to know that when there are only two alternatives we need to support the one with the interests of the working class represented more accurately, even though we acknowledge that it doesn't truly represent the interest of the working class.

[ellipsis]

he still not one of us.

I don't think anybody is making that claim.


In many respects, calling what Senator Sanders did "historic" is only for the above reason and none other.

I don't think anybody is making that claim. Or if they are, link so I can laugh too.


I don't think that anyone here or of the socialist Left, that I've seen at least, has any illusions about Sanders.
Ditto for Vermonters.

I listened to the speech for around three hours and a lot of his message could be used word for word as agit-prop and i would think it was written by an anti-capitalists. I am just saying that he was speaking a fairly good message, fairly close to the propaganda we on the radical left utilize and it was heard by a large number of people via radio, tv and internet UNFILTERED by the "lamestream" media.

The real question is: Is Sanders a wolf in sheep's clothes or just a sheep and wolf's clothes?

[KurtFF8]

The real question is: Is Sanders a wolf in sheep's clothes or just a sheep and wolf's clothes?

The real question, in my opinion, is: does it matter?

Sanders isn't part of any major even social democratic reformist organization and is essentially part of the Left wing of the Democratic party (although is an independent). The coverage around him is likely about the filibuster itself, not what was said during it (I haven't been watching or reading much coverage of it, so hopefully I'm wrong here).

He does offer a sort of breath of fresh air from the US congress, although he is essentially alone in it in the Senate at least.

And if anything, this move demonstrates some Left resistance to Obama's politics on a "mainstream" or popular scale, which can't be anything other than good in my opinion.

[CAleftist]

Sanders may be a "reformer", but at least he is opposing this tax deal.

[Impulse97]

He may not be an out and out Socialist but, he's doing a damn sight more than the Dems.:hammersickle::trotski::hammersickle:

[ellipsis]

The real question, in my opinion, is: does it matter?

Sanders isn't part of any major even social democratic reformist organization and is essentially part of the Left wing of the Democratic party (although is an independent).

We'll let's be honest, could he be? And that's my point; is he a socialist and continues to be elected because he masquerades as a democratic socialist? Or is he real a social democrat who likes to keep us wondering?

Does it matter? No, a revolution from within the senate is impossible, a revolution through electoral politics is impossible. I don't think there is a high probability of him actually being a legit anti-capitalist. But as a Vermonter I have always just kinda wondered.

[KurtFF8]

Or is he real a social democrat who likes to keep us wondering?

In all honesty, I think he isn't worried about what the radical Left thinks. His audience is predominately left wing liberals.

[Sendo]

He used the term "middle class" in a history lecture. He is not putting some fuzzy middle class up on a pedestal, he was talking about how it was once possible for a poor boy with only a high school background to work hard and have a nice lot in life. He acknowledged it wasn't perfect and it was alongside some ugly episodes in our history, but from the 1950s until the time of Reagan tax cuts and social cuts and Clinton-era free trade, people had some future, and what do we have now? It was more of a remark of the lack of social mobility and the lack of good paying jobs.

He was saying that the current tax system favors widening the gap and that the work that offered a middle-class lifestyle (he's using vernacular) has vanished.

On this issue, he is 100% on our side. Lenin and Mao knew about forming temporary alliances. Allying yourself with Sanders on this issue at this stage in American history is leftist. There is no debate in the Senate about whether we should have a dictatorship of the proletariat. Right here and right now there is one issue: tax cuts for the rich whose richest bracket stands at $250,000, a capital gains tax at 15%, and a Social Security tax that doesn't touch money over $106,000. Cut and dry. Block this bill or don't block it. Someone who blocks it is on my good side.