Should Americans set up Red Guard groups, or workers councils?

[cowslayer]

Should we begin to establish workers councils in America?

I mean a workers council is supposed to do the equivalent of a union in the economic area, but it also holds political power and in the early USSR, the Soviets had both executive and legislative powers.

Maybe we could establish a council in a large city, say New York or San Francisco, and if people are attracted to idea enough, they could support it to the point where there could even be a dual system of the current liberal government and a second peoples government made up of workers councils, just like the Bolshevik revolution.

Or maybe we should establish groups of Red Guards?

I know I would definitely volunteer.

[StalinFanboy]

The composition of the class in America is incredibly different from the composition of the class in Russia leading up to the Revolution.

[Comrade_Stalin]

Or maybe we should establish groups of Red Guards?



The Red Guard was a means of protecting the councils(Perople's Soviets). They were later replaced by the Red army.

[IronEastBloc]

If we set up red guards and worker councils in the current state of the country, they'd just become dominated by liberals, democratic party members, bourgeois pacifists, and hippie types who think that you can get something done by chanting through a megaphone and holding a sign with a catchy slogan.

[cowslayer]

If we set up red guards and worker councils in the current state of the country, they'd just become dominated by liberals, democratic party members, bourgeois pacifists, and hippie types who think that you can get something done by chanting through a megaphone and holding a sign with a catchy slogan.


Then what is the point of even fighting for Socialism and Communism if the administration set up by us was only dominated by these people?

[Die Neue Zeit]

At the present time, it's just revolutionary rhetoric to cover up for a more politically convenient version of some Social Forum:

http://www.workersassembly.ca/

[penguinfoot]

Workers councils are not bodies that can be just set up, especially not be leftists, they are bodies that emerge spontaneously and organically during the course of the class struggle, initially as a way of responding to immediate problems and circumstances, only later coming to form the basis of a viable system of working-class rule. There have been historic attempts to form workers councils by administrative decree and in every instance the result has been bodies that are isolated from the ranks of the working class and which are rapidly eliminated by the state forces, with the revolutionaries who participated in the formation of the councils being easily identified and persecuted for their involvement - look in particular at the Canton Commune of 1927, which was formed by the CPC, as a result of the party being directed to do so by the Comintern, in the aftermath of a crushing defeat for the Chinese working class, and lasted for only two days before being crushed.

[IronEastBloc]

Then what is the point of even fighting for Socialism and Communism if the administration set up by us was only dominated by these people?

A certain degree of class consciousness must be obtained first before such things can even be considered. In America, that is the goal.

[Die Neue Zeit]

Workers councils are not bodies that can be just set up, especially not be leftists, they are bodies that emerge spontaneously and organically during the course of the class struggle, initially as a way of responding to immediate problems and circumstances, only later coming to form the basis of a viable system of working-class rule. There have been historic attempts to form workers councils by administrative decree and in every instance the result has been bodies that are isolated from the ranks of the working class and which are rapidly eliminated by the state forces, with the revolutionaries who participated in the formation of the councils being easily identified and persecuted for their involvement - look in particular at the Canton Commune of 1927, which was formed by the CPC, as a result of the party being directed to do so by the Comintern, in the aftermath of a crushing defeat for the Chinese working class, and lasted for only two days before being crushed.

The problem is that the party set up workers councils as bodies external to the party. The better question is:

Should a mass party-movement of the American working class set up workers councils within the party as proper party organizations?

[Niccolò Rossi]

Should a mass party-movement of the American working class set up workers councils within the party as proper party organizations?

These would be workers councils only in name. The question is moot.

Nic.

[Niccolò Rossi]

To the OP, I would suggest studying what workers councils are and how they have arisen historically.

A good peice to read might be the ICC's recent series 'What are Workers' Councils?' (in four parts). Part one can be found here (http://en.internationalism.org/ir/140/workers-councils-01).

Nic.