what progress has armed volunteerism in NI brought?

[Sasha]

Since its that time of the year again where we are getting spammed by IRA hardman singing the praise of kneecaping and we could split hairs over each armed incident in NI for ever, i thought it wortwhile to discuss volunteerism from an different perspective.

I'm by no way an pacifist, i support the tactic of armed struggle and both understand the reason for and support the initial irish uprisings. I also acknowledge that at least the IRSP/INLA have an progressive program (whether they are also in fact an progressive organization i know not enough for).

But what is the program of the other volunteer groups, what is their scheme to better the situation in NI?
I mean, everbody is screaming bloody imperialism but i hope the NI members here agree that only an sucsesion from GB and an unification with EU/IMF ***** Ireland in its current form would be no progress what so ever.
what has the last decades of armed struggle brought in progress towards socialism and liberation in what form at all? For an outsider it seems that all it brought was an poisoned sectarian climate, death and misery.

isnt volunteerism an proven failed path, an obstacle towards progress, ultimately serving its stated enemy imperialist capitalism?

[Homage To Catalonia]

well when your getting your houses burnt down, by loyalists and the stormont, what the fuck were republicans supposed to do, sing unity while only orange walked the streets, the rest were all battered off their feets.

So im up for revolution
the workers 32
the destruction of the privellaged
you should believe that too

And when the insurection is on its way
and the irish are set to be free
its there well be attacked by the loyalists and the orange RUC

[Wanted Man]

I mean, everbody is screaming bloody imperialism but i hope the NI members here agree that only an sucsesion from GB and an unification with EU/IMF ***** Ireland in its current form would be no progress what so ever.

Absolutely, that's exactly why many Republicans still refer to the existing 26-county state as the "Free State (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_free_state#After_the_Irish_Free_State). I don't know whether this still holds true for all Republican groups, but Republican Socialist groups for one are quite clear on the fact that the aims of socialism and national liberation are intertwined and that it's not one before the other.

On a broader scale, the defeat of British imperialism is also a necessity for socialism in Britain. After all, "A nation which oppresses another nation..."

Whether armed campaigns and the like are conductive to this is another question, but it's complete misrepresentation when people accuse Republican Socialists of simply wanting to join the Republic Ireland in its current form, with all that that entails. (Quite frankly, you'd have to wonder whether the Free State would even want six militantly socialist Republican counties if it ever came that far...)


what has the last decades of armed struggle brought in progress towards socialism and liberation in what form at all? For an outsider it seems that all it brought was an poisoned sectarian climate, death and misery.

It was forced upon them, after all. Republicanism doesn't cause sectarianism except in the eyes of some disingenuous leftists who claim that Republicanism and Loyalism are simply two rival sectarian factions. Never mind the great tradition of Protestants in every single Irish liberation movement that has ever existed...

[Sasha]

^ looks like an valuable analysis, anyone know how irish socialist are trying to rethink their tactics/struggle? it seems that now the choice for most groups is between further sectarian incident based violence (i.e. ballshooting and tit for tat violence over flag display) and parlementarism.
any groups that try and make an large community anti-capitalist resistance?
i know some irish anarchist folk where busy with squatting (with dutch help) but they are getting burned here by the vols for being "deviants" and "anti-workingclass" and i know there are some good NI anti-sectarian trade-union iniatives but those are quickly taken over by the parlementarians.
so again that raises my question, how can it be that in an country wich such an history in revolunionary action there is no iniative with an hint of revolutionary potential?

[fionntan]

I didnt read your reactionary post when i seen you refer to Ireland as N Ireland.So fuck off and be what your best at arm chair boy..

[Crux]

I didnt read your reactionary post when i seen you refer to Ireland as N Ireland.So fuck off and be what your best at arm chair boy..
:laugh:

[Sasha]

I didnt read your reactionary post when i seen you refer to Ireland as N Ireland.So fuck off and be what your best at arm chair boy..

charming, here i am, willing to be informed...
please note that thats what "what ever you want to call that area" is called by progressives over here, i.e. as an part of ireland and not ulster as the rightwing press used to call it back in the day.
you could apriciate that, like i'm at least refering to derry as derry and not londonderry as most would over here.
but since you dont, an nice fat fuck you back right at ya