Possible obstacle

[Savior]

I have been looking more and more into the Left end of the spectrum, (thats why i joined, im a leftist) But how will Socialism, Communism, and Anarchism deal with consumer goods?
By this i mean Cars, Clothing, Video games, Television and the like.
or is there something i missed?

[The Idler]

A society of free access.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I have been looking more and more into the Left end of the spectrum, (thats why i joined, im a leftist) But how will Socialism, Communism, and Anarchism deal with consumer goods?
By this i mean Cars, Clothing, Video games, Television and the like.
or is there something i missed?

What do you mean by "deal with" precisely?

[Sosa]

I'm confused by this question :confused:

[Savior]

What do you mean by "deal with" precisely?
How are we to make consumer goods? in a planned econmy, how will we be able to make things such as Video games and movies if resources are to allocated to it

I'm confused by this question :confused:
i tried to elaborate on the above posters question.

[StalinFanboy]

How are we to make consumer goods? in a planned econmy, how will we be able to make things such as Video games and movies if resources are to allocated to it
People want to do it, then they learn how to do it, then they do it.

[Unclebananahead]

Do you mean more leisurely goods? Such as roller skates, bowling balls, hula hoops, and the like? These will still be produced roughly according to consumer demand though their production will be lower in priority to essential goods and services like food, medical care, and the like.

[Savior]

Do you mean more leisurely goods? Such as roller skates, bowling balls, hula hoops, and the like? These will still be produced roughly according to consumer demand though their production will be lower in priority to essential goods and services like food, medical care, and the like.

I see, so as more and more production is freed up after we get the essentials taken care of for the masses, we can make the leisure goods?
How do we plan for that?

[yobbos1]

The false markets that are created for much of the world's worthless consumer goods will not exist in the first place. Therefore there will be no need to produce pet-rocks, hula hoops and 256 varieties of cellphone that can call, text, browse shop, play movies and walk your dog.

[Comrade1]

Needs will be provided and luxurys will need to be bought with labour vouchers that you wokerd to acieve. Under mass surplus of goods.

[RedTrackWorker]

I have been looking more and more into the Left end of the spectrum, (thats why i joined, im a leftist) But how will Socialism, Communism, and Anarchism deal with consumer goods?
By this i mean Cars, Clothing, Video games, Television and the like.
or is there something i missed?

I'm not great spouting stuff from Das Kapital off the top of my head, but my understanding is that one of the basic contradictions of a society based on selling labor power is that production goods (say a factory) are more profitable than consumer goods and so there is a tendency for capitalism to focus on producing things to produce more things, not quality consumer goods. (And this is one of the things my group points to as showing Stalinist Russia post-1930's was capitalist, the ever-crappy quality of consumer goods, when a system moving toward being socialistic would increase that quality.)
So by taking production out of the hands of private profiteers, a socialist society can re-organize the production system to produce for use, rather than profit, which means an increasing focus on consumer goods (though of course one must produce production goods--like factories--to do that).
If you want to look more into the economic theory, Marx calls production goods Department One and consumer goods production Department Two I think.

[hatzel]

Therefore there will be no need to produce...hula hoops

...what? But I want my hula hoop! I wouldn't class them as useless consumer products anyway, but if we're going to abolish hula hoops...well, then I might just get off of this revolution train right now and hop over to the fascistmobile...they don't have a problem with hula hoops...

Or is there something I'm missing here? Do you mean something else? I mean, the crisps can go, I don't mind that so much, but what's so bad about:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/28/Folsom_Hula_Hoop.jpg/800px-Folsom_Hula_Hoop.jpg

[Savior]

The false markets that are created for much of the world's worthless consumer goods will not exist in the first place. Therefore there will be no need to produce pet-rocks, hula hoops and 256 varieties of cellphone that can call, text, browse shop, play movies and walk your dog.
I know that i would want a little variety in what i wear and use. Surely we can supplement that.

Needs will be provided and luxurys will need to be bought with labour vouchers that you wokerd to acieve. Under mass surplus of goods.
Now that is a fantastic idea comrade, What will we do once we reach post-scarcity

I'm not great spouting stuff from Das Kapital off the top of my head, but my understanding is that one of the basic contradictions of a society based on selling labor power is that production goods (say a factory) are more profitable than consumer goods and so there is a tendency for capitalism to focus on producing things to produce more things, not quality consumer goods. (And this is one of the things my group points to as showing Stalinist Russia post-1930's was capitalist, the ever-crappy quality of consumer goods, when a system moving toward being socialistic would increase that quality.)
So by taking production out of the hands of private profiteers, a socialist society can re-organize the production system to produce for use, rather than profit, which means an increasing focus on consumer goods (though of course one must produce production goods--like factories--to do that).
If you want to look more into the economic theory, Marx calls production goods Department One and consumer goods production Department Two I think.
Hmmm... interesting.

[Stranger Than Paradise]

I have been looking more and more into the Left end of the spectrum, (thats why i joined, im a leftist) But how will Socialism, Communism, and Anarchism deal with consumer goods?
By this i mean Cars, Clothing, Video games, Television and the like.
or is there something i missed?

Assemblies where delegates will decide upon what is produced and what priority it takes will makes these choices. Personally I don't think a libertarian communist society would need cars, public transport should facilitate travel. Clothing, video games and television would all be discussed upon by workers. What we desire, what priority it takes.

[Savior]

Assemblies where delegates will decide upon what is produced and what priority it takes will makes these choices. Personally I don't think a libertarian communist society would need cars, public transport should facilitate travel. Clothing, video games and television would all be discussed upon by workers. What we desire, what priority it takes.

Some people have diffrent levels of disire than others. Some might want a car more than a television. How to reach a decision?

[Cowboy Killer]

I have been looking more and more into the Left end of the spectrum, (thats why i joined, im a leftist) But how will Socialism, Communism, and Anarchism deal with consumer goods?
By this i mean Cars, Clothing, Video games, Television and the like.
or is there something i missed?
These things will still exist their function and the way they are consumed and produced will be different(probably better). In stead of being driven by profits they will be driven by necessity and artistic principals for the latter.

Examples:
Cars: Hopefully we will have a free transportation system in which members of all communities will participate in.

Clothing:I never really thought about that one but i'm sure there will be communities that specialize in textiles in which trade and stuff would take place.

Video Games: We would still have all of our old systems and games,but I think new video games would still come out and there would be a very wide variety of them and it would be a collaboration of artists and programmers. But thats if any body still feels like making video games after the revolution.

Television: Would still exist but its primary function would be to deliver information to the people and would showcase performing arts.

[Cowboy Killer]

How to reach a decision?
Consensus

[Savior]

These things will still exist their function and the way they are consumed and produced will be different(probably better). In stead of being driven by profits they will be driven by necessity and artistic principals for the latter.

Examples:
Cars: Hopefully we will have a free transportation system in which members of all communities will participate in.

Clothing:I never really thought about that one but i'm sure there will be communities that specialize in textiles in which trade and stuff would take place.

Video Games: We would still have all of our old systems and games,but I think new video games would still come out and there would be a very wide variety of them and it would be a collaboration of artists and programmers. But thats if any body still feels like making video games after the revolution.

Television: Would still exist but its primary function would be to deliver information to the people and would showcase performing arts.

What about personal cars? Maybe after working, i want to take my family to the mountains for a weekend of leisure? Clothing, who would design it? and television, What about entertainment? not just education, I agree alot of what is one today worships money and thats what the basis of the programming is. But there must still be time for the workers to winddown.

[yobbos1]

...what? But I want my hula hoop! I wouldn't class them as useless consumer products anyway, but if we're going to abolish hula hoops...well, then I might just get off of this revolution train right now and hop over to the fascistmobile...they don't have a problem with hula hoops...

Or is there something I'm missing here? Do you mean something else? I mean, the crisps can go, I don't mind that so much, but what's so bad about:



Well maybe the hula hoops aren't so bad...

[Sensible Socialist]

The people that want to, and have the ability to, make those good will do so. Once they are created, all will have access to them (such as a car, new clothes, consumer goods, etc.)

I'm not of the position that all consumer goods are forced on us by large corporations. I enjoy many of my posessions, and would be disappointed if they were not in existence after capitalism.