What is it going to take?

[cowslayer]

It seems that people today have become so numbed and disillusioned.

What is it going to take for the next revolution in America to come?

Should we set up workers councils?

Should we militarize political parties aligned with left wing causes?

Should we encourage workers to get rid of their boss and decide on production themselves?

Are people just waiting for an example?
Or are they just waiting for the right time?


Perhaps people believe that Capitalism will simply fall on its own. But if we let it do that, who will be there to pick up the pieces?

Today's most radical parties are not interested in revolution, but they believe the only way to advance their goals is through winning elections and throwing electoral campaigns.


While I of course support Democracy and all, but can we bring true Socialism through revisionist policies? No, I believe the answer is.

So what is it going to take, to wake up the people of the world? What is going to take to wake up just the Communists and Socialists to actually put up a fight, to actually decide how and why things are made in the workplace, not to listen to those on top who do nothing?

Is the world now forever in Capitalisms grasp?

[Dimitri Molotov]

i think we should try to progress from how far weve already gotten, i discussed this with one of my other Marxist friends once, and we came to the conclusion that society as a whole has been progressing and getting better, next gay marriage, etc. its only a matter of time before people start taking the side of the left and realizing how full of shit capitalism and our government is. i am afraid that if a revolution starts too early we wont have the full backing of the people, and it might not succeed. and even if it does succeed, if we still dont have the people on our side yet we will fail due to lack of willing participation. im not saying that if a revolution sprang up i wouldnt support it, (because i would with my life) but i think it will be easier and more effective if we just get the general public to join the left. i think we should just keep spreading the word, teaching our morals, values and other beliefs to the nation, and just take small steps, run for public offices, etc. i also think that making sure no biased teaching occurs in high schools, strong conservative and anti-left teachers can easily pursued students who dont really get involved in politics. (i am still in high school, 10th grade actually and i get in debates with teachers all the time, most of the time embarrassing them and being sent to the main office.. but if that is where i am sent so be it). we just need to show the people that the left is their friend, not the enemy. eventually the time will come, but we cant wait for someone else to do it. everyone needs to help prepare, or the time will never come.

Viva La Revolution! Comrades!:D

[Property Is Robbery]

People are way too brainwashed for any normal tactic to work. It's going to take a radical enlightenment for any real change to occur.

[Burn A Flag]

Honestly it's the mass media that's killing our cause. People these days are too busy watching TV and posting on Facebook to learn or do much at all. And anything they do learn from those places will be pro capital. Keeping the people sedentary keeps them from revolting.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

Dance parties-cum-riots.
Reading circles-cum-orgies.
Parties-cum-The Party.

Also, massive community organizing, building autonomous capacity, and creating a culture of fucking shit up.

[Niccolò Rossi]

People are way too brainwashed for any normal tactic to work. It's going to take a radical enlightenment for any real change to occur.

What do you propose?

Nic.

[cowslayer]

I was discussing with my friend a topic that came up today.

We live around San Francisco, and we discussed what would happen if we tried to set up a workers council in San Francisco. A council of course in the traditional sense, recognizing the political, economic and social rights of people who make a living based off of wage.

Why don't we try to organize councils?

[Jalapeno Enema]

People are way too brainwashed for any normal tactic to work. It's going to take a radical enlightenment for any real change to occur.
Agreed.

Revolution isn't just going to happen.

People have to learn that capitalism is a load. They have to learn to loathe it. Then they have to learn about the alternatives.

Education should be priority. This can be achieved a number of ways, many have been mentioned above.


i think we should try to progress from how far weve already gotten, i discussed this with one of my other Marxist friends once, and we came to the conclusion that society as a whole has been progressing and getting betterAgreed.

There's still plenty of work to be done, but more and more people are willing to sit down and listen to alternative social-political ideas then they used to be.

The average person is still very much stuck in old ways of thinking, but in the U.S., for example, Cold War and post-9-11 ways of thinking are wanning. It's not nearly as "unpatriotic" to question the government's every action.

This leaves a demographic that is more open-minded to new ideas, and hopefully this snowballs in the future.

[ellipsis]

I am always wondering this myself, and besides a shit ton of hard work on OUR parts, I have no answers.

[ZeroNowhere]

I hear that the rate of profit has been in a bad way recently.

[Amphictyonis]

People have to learn that capitalism is a load. They have to learn to loathe it. Then they have to learn about the alternatives.


^ It's our job, especially in periods of crisis, to be there to offer alternatives. It's our job to learn as much as we can ourselves.

[ckaihatsu]

A vanguard is certainly needed *for* a revolution simply because it would be the ultimate centralization of mass political power that the world has ever seen -- far moreso than current bourgeois institutions like the UN Security Council or the United Nations General Assembly or whatever. A vanguard would accurately reflect the minute-by-minute interests of the mass working class, similar to the several Marxist news sites in existence today.

I'd imagine that most of the routine political issues of the day, even going into a revolutionary period, could be handled adeptly by these existing organizations and organs -- however, the tricky part is in carrying out specific, large-scale campaigns that are under time pressure. This is where the world's working class should have the *benefit* of hierarchical organization, just as the capitalists use with their interlocking directorates and CEOs and such.

tinyurl.com/ckaihatsu-vanguardism

[FreeFocus]

What do you mean the "next revolution" in America? There needs to be a preceding one for there to be a "next" one.

It will take nothing less than a miracle.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

"Revolt needs everything: papers and books, arms and explosives, reflection and swearing, poison, daggers and arson. The only interesting question is how to combine them."

-

[Bardo]

I'd like to see more cooperative businesses pop up. I think most Americans, reguardless of politcal adherence, are starting to become disillusioned with massive corperate influence. For every new walmart in every small town there are several smaller businesses that cannot compete. Naturally, these jobs are replaced by positions within the Walmart empire. Building the Walmarts, maintaining the Walmarts, changing tires in the auto department, serving food, selling goods, ect. usually for a basic wage and expensive or no benefits. At some point the workers have to say enough is enough and take back their industry. What we need is a vast cooperative movement, a nationwide syndicate that can attract workers away from large oppressive corperations thus capping the influence they have over the workers.

I think militarizing our politcal parties will only drive away the very people we need. The revolution must be built upon a solid foundation of support from the working class. I think most people just want to go to work and live their lives rather than be revolutionaries. In order to make revolutionaries out of the working class we must make the work itself revolutionary.

[UjimaTribesman]

I'd like to see more cooperative businesses pop up. I think most Americans, reguardless of politcal adherence, are starting to become disillusioned with massive corperate influence. For every new walmart in every small town there are several smaller businesses that cannot compete. Naturally, these jobs are replaced by positions within the Walmart empire. Building the Walmarts, maintaining the Walmarts, changing tires in the auto department, serving food, selling goods, ect. usually for a basic wage and expensive or no benefits. At some point the workers have to say enough is enough and take back their industry. What we need is a vast cooperative movement, a nationwide syndicate that can attract workers away from large oppressive corperations thus capping the influence they have over the workers.

I think militarizing our politcal parties will only drive away the very people we need. The revolution must be built upon a solid foundation of support from the working class. I think most people just want to go to work and live their lives rather than be revolutionaries. In order to make revolutionaries out of the working class we must make the work itself revolutionary.
I agree we should remember that socialist theory is politics and most people are turned off by politics. People want results they what to see alternate systems in action, as opposed to hearing rhetoric. I think more people will be drawn to Socialism through peace and property than by war.


Today's most radical parties are not interested in revolution, but they believe the only way to advance their goals is through winning elections and throwing electoral campaigns.
Reformist politics most likely won't win for socialist, this is in my Opinion because the system is funded by capitalism, therefore the capitalist make the rules, revolution is the way, but there are other kinds of revolutions than bloody ones.

[ckaihatsu]

---





The revolution must be built upon a solid foundation of support from the working class. I think most people just want to go to work and live their lives rather than be revolutionaries. In order to make revolutionaries out of the working class we must make the work itself revolutionary.





This is basically advocating a global syndicalist currency that would be worker-controlled, cut across national boundaries, retain full labor value, and provide a broad range of trans-national goods and services through regular distribution channels.

All labor provided towards supplying the currency would necessarily be revolutionary acts, and could take place on a variety of scales, in a mixture of patterns of participation, gradually growing in size as cities once did. Transparency of accounting and operations would provide ongoing credibility, with worker-controlled decision-making -- call it stochastic soviets, if you like...!

http://tinyurl.com/global-syndicalist-currency

[Ele'ill]

To the Original Poster-

Capitalism cannot go on.

I believe it's going to get worse before people realize they need to make things better on their own. Right now- at least in the United States- it seems as though most are accepting victories as gifts from the enemies because they're still recognizing and respecting that power structure. This is unacceptable- as is the 'radical' community's lack of outreach to labor and their inability to grasp the concept of insured windows.

[MarxSchmarx]

To the Original Poster-

Capitalism cannot go on.

I believe it's going to get worse before people realize they need to make things better on their own. Right now- at least in the United States- it seems as though most are accepting victories as gifts from the enemies because they're still recognizing and respecting that power structure. This is unacceptable- as is the 'radical' community's lack of outreach to labor and their inability to grasp the concept of insured windows.

Count me as one of the clueless - what on earth are "insured windows"????